[Beagle]

This one actually shows up on measurements (by multiple people) as a ridge on the CSD, indicating a resonance. Your ears fool you: what you call "natural presence" is a coloration because of a ringing. Depending on the music type, it may sound subjectively better, but no, it is not good.

:snicker:

Our ears fool us but yours don't fool you?

 

[zolkis]

Yes, they do, I know from own experience how it is possible to fool our ears by ringing in the midrange. That is why I use measurements to double check. If a mod measures similar (or better) and sounds better then I know it's good. Also, I ask my colleagues for opinion, luckily I work together with some real gurus.

 

[zolkis]

Anyway, about the mods, take it or leave it, just don't make generalized opinions about them without actually trying them out, or without having a technical argument against. They are free and public so that they could be tested and evaluated by other people. If they don't belong here, I can move or remove the content. I am also fine just listening to music and not caring about head-fi, which is what I've been doing in the last few months, and it looks like I will continue to do that. Have fun.

 

[butch111]

aaahhh....REAL gurus

why i am not surprised?

 

[zolkis]

Yeah, real. Continue trolling. It's the new norm.

 

[xinghui0711]

Modding is common among head-fi communities. What Beagle meant probably was that d7200 is good as it-is , and he is not going against modding. We all have heard "subjectivity" many times right? Modding headphones is just an opinion, and you are welcome to share your experience.
I have only tried swapping dekoni th900 pads thus far.

 

[butch111]

Enough from thinskinned gurus now.


I have 2 original Denon-Cables here. 5cm difference. The shorter one have 0.01 Ohm on booth channels more resistant.

 

[ruhenheiM]

Modding is common among head-fi communities. What Beagle meant probably was that d7200 is good as it-is , and he is not going against modding. We all have heard "subjectivity" many times right? Modding headphones is just an opinion, and you are welcome to share your experience.
I have only tried swapping dekoni th900 pads thus far.

yea it wasn't a problem until certain user start trolling. i've been reading this thread from page one.some of the people posting here have been here from the start.just like you.i remember you posted at the beginning of this thread. and zolkis has been posted his impression about this headphone many times before,he has been mentioned about modding it ever since he posted his impression, he talking about pad swapping, making his own pad,and then damping, and it was civil conversation. this is head-fi, modding has been around. and no one has complaint about it. i remember when some user posted his hd800 tape mod to tame some of the treble. that headphone cost 1500usd. and in that time hd800 pretty much the status quo of the best headphone money could buy. i didn't follow that thread though.maybe the user got the same reaction from other headfiers, yeah "real guru" like he is better than sennheiser

what i'm trying to say is.this is a fairly good thread. from the start up to before that incident it's been all right. i've been following some threads before and then i stop reading because most of the time, trolling happen and then for about 10 pages it just way off from the topic, not even having a real discussion, really waste of time reading that kind of thread

it has been established. he just sharing his mod,he show how it's done and all the materials needed. if you want to argue, try it first,tested,then there's going to be some discussion.if you don't wanna just skip it. everybody happy. no need to ruin a fairly good discussion thread

 

[Jimster480]

Anyway, about the mods, take it or leave it, just don't make generalized opinions about them without actually trying them out, or without having a technical argument against. They are free and public so that they could be tested and evaluated by other people. If they don't belong here, I can move or remove the content. I am also fine just listening to music and not caring about head-fi, which is what I've been doing in the last few months, and it looks like I will continue to do that. Have fun.

Don't worry about the haters, just share your information for the community and those of us who read these forums for knowledge.

Edit: I won a pair of these last night on eBay at a great price. Can't wait to try them out now against my AH-MM400s and my RP-HD10.
Also in to see if anyone has compared with the Aeons from Mrspeakers!

 

[Beagle]

real gurus.

Meaning....?

 

[Jimster480]

Meaning....?

I don't think anyone knows what that means.

 

[zolkis]

Names won't be shared here, nor definitions of off-topic terms.

I hope we can agree on this thread is for discussing the D7200 related things, with arguments targeting other arguments, not people.

What concerns the mods, there was a question for them, it's not like I came with unsolicited advertisements, and actually never asked for nor gained any money from doing mods.

In fact I have spent a good headphone's worth of money on simple mods of a dozen of headphones over a few years (based on my experience with acoustic materials from speaker making), and it was totally worth it. The same patterns proved good across a wide range of headphones. None of the headphones were destroyed (yet take care), and all mods were reversible.

I stand my ground: they do work for me, likely for many others too, albeit likely not for everyone and not by the same extent. At least they are worth trying. The one thing I can guarantee is they make a much bigger difference than cable changes .
As for the D7200, as I have stated earlier in this thread, it is one of the best designed closed headphones. But there is so much to gain just from suitable ear pads change that I cannot keep silent about it. Looks like comfort was higher priority for the manufacturer than optimizing for sound quality. In general, slightly bigger inner opening and slightly shallower pads will work better IMHO.

The cups damping can be left alone. In general, the Twaron stuff sounds better than the polyfill stuffing used by Denon (and Fostex), but the less amount of stuffing in the cups without causing ringing, the better. Even the tiniest amount of stuffing muffles up things somewhere in the audio band. Even with speakers, I have always tried to tame resonances by correcting structure, not by adding stuffing. With that, the D7200 has very little amount of factory stuffing in the cups, and can be left alone.

Also, with time, the wood "settles", for instance the 3kHz ringing apparent in my TH900 without cups damping disappeared after about 2 years, so I took off the damping completely to enable a more immediate and less compressed sound. Impulse response improved too. It's always a compromise to find optimum in fine-tuning a headphone, and it's also personal. No wonder manufacturers try to achieve the safest balance with a given design instead of optimizing for one or another taste niche. Yet people seem to have similar gripes against given headphones (like "it wouldn't hurt to have some more bass", or "a bit smoother mids or highs"), and surprising amount of manufacturers don't go the last mile for finding a best sounding optimization for a given design and target audience (e.g. Japanese vs European). I have discussed this with an engineer from one of the most prominent makers and actually that last mile would raise the costs enormously, so it will likely stay in DIY territory, just like with most speakers. Mods will continue to have a place. That said, there are manufacturers who actually go the last mile, and the price is to match.

Each with their own risk taking, measure and decision. Let's not waste more space and time here. Enjoy the music.

 

[ruhenheiM]

from reading and watching few interviews, most of the designers and engineers usually western they just finding the right balance.it rarely optimize for specific thing, they just speculate it and make generalization of that. like the tuning. most of them always said just go as neutral or flat as possible, it easier for customers to eq than doing DIY because not all of customer want to do that or have acoustic knowledge. and there are so many variables in audio chain, the components, for instance,in speakers.not every customer have the the same exact room, different region have different kind of walls. some region most of the time use concrete, some use bricks,some using wood, and not all customers want to do room treatment. if they're going for a very specific target market, they will have a very small market.it's not really a sustainable business modelling. so to really satisfied each needs you need to put effort to go to the extra miles especially with mass products unless if you have the money, then it's super easy you just pay. that's why most of the time japanese products are very specific products, they always targeting japanese markets which is one of the reasons their products most of time only sold in japan and usually made in japan and price usually higher

so for denon to actually delivered a good products with quite affordable price. that's great news but it won't satisfied everyone taste just like everything else in general

 

[GU1DO]

Has anyone been able to compare the D7200 with Mr Speaker Aeons?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/denon-ah-7200.810889/page-82#post-13732088

 

[Maxx134]

Maxx134, I'm interested to know what king of mods you have done to your D7200s, even if they wouldn't be easy to replicate

First I made them more sensitive, and that was nice.
then I made them way more bass and that was fun.

Then I made them more detailed lesser bass.
Then I changed the signature and eliminate the peaks.
Then I reduced the resonance around 2.5k.
Then thanks to Zolkis I was able to reduce the 300hz dip with the Twaron he recommended.

So for me it was a fun project,
MAINLY because this specific Dennon driver was more sensitive to modding than the other new cans I tried.
I still not finished with it so no posts yet.


Anyways for now I do recommend the pad change.
I tried the Ori pads and they are great.
I am currently on Ether Electrostatic pads,
Because they give me most open natural bass,
But I have to use two 2.5" round rings with the plastic tabbed ring in order to keep the bass seal.

2. Optionally replace the damping material from the cups to very light filling of Twaron Angelhair like on the picture. I stress on _very_ light filling. Overdamp it and the sound becomes dark really fast

Thanks again for this great tip I am currently testing how much I would like inside.

The plastic pad mounting rings are retired for good.

I agree to not use the crap rings currently in use with some pads actually cover the driver.

Not sure why anyone would mod this headphone. To my ears it sounds great as is.

Haha yes but the fun is finding out how high it can climb..

waiting for thinner version of Ori pads Zach promised to come later this year, as I think they should work really well with 7200.

Wow that sounds like an excellent move, I didn't know there would be a thinner pad, nice.