[smodtactical]

Yeah, it will never be fair, seeing as they use different branded tubes. I actually think you can go further with tube rolling in the HA300MK2 due to the tube types used vs. the one's in the Stratus, and that is a big reason I went with the HA300MK2 over the Stratus. In stock form I am sure they are close and different flavors of awesomeness. That being said, a good tube roll can takes things way beyond the stock sound.

Ya Cayin is still great. I agree with you that they are both excellent.

 

[bigjako]

I'd love to hear your take on those different flavors. The Stratus is my top amp by a large margin, and I love it's overall sonic signature. I find it warm but also fast and agile, with a nice liquidity and vibrancy. Huge soundstage as well compared to my other amps. And such dynamic range! That amp never falters when pushed hard with dynamics. I'm not a big planar listener so can't comment there. I had an HE6SE for awhile and thought the Stratus pushed it just fine, but I don't have any superpowered amps to compare with. All in all it's the amp I always want to listen to, and the amp I wish I could take to work, as that's where I do most of my listening. If I went down the Cayin 300b rabbit hole I'd want something with a more traditional warmth, slower with thicker/wetter mids and some softness up top vs the Stratus. The Stratus doesn't roll off anything up top to my ears, and occasionally zings me with crappy recordings. My WA3 OTL smooths those crappy recordings out enough to not zing me. I'd also love a bit more decay and resonance. The Stratus is very fast to my ears. The decay isn't bad, but if notes just faded down a bit slower i'd be more satisfied. Wondering if the 300b fits the bill and would take me towards that target or not.

I'm honestly not really comfortable expounding on the differences between them yet. My HA-300 was outta commission while my WE tubes were sent back and I'm just now finally getting back into it. But I won't let that stop me

The Stratus, to me, is like a grand concert hall. The mids come through so clearly across that wide open stage and it leans warm, but it's not syrupy or wet. It's surprisingly tight, just not dry. When I compare it to my Glenn OTL, the Stratus sometimes spreads the music out so well and uniformly that the Glenn might come across more 'fun' or focused on slam and dynamics, while the Stratus just plays it all so effortlessly well. The Cayin is warmer and wetter to me (keep in the WE's have less than 100 hours) but not slow or syrupy at all, and it emphasizes the lower kids and bass a little more than the more even-handed Stratus. Cayin has a little more weight to it, big slam but not boosted slam, which the Glenn can sometimes feel like.

To make a ridiculous analogy, the Stratus is like smooth, creamy peanut butter while the Cayin is crunchy peanut butter. Still buttery smooth but with some extra oomph in the lower registers. Heavier and weightier while the Stratus flies like an agile angel.

To your analogy, if you had to compare the Stratus and the Cayin, yes - the Cayin is thicker and wetter and has more resonance, but I would never in a million years call the HA300b thick or wet, it's just in comparison to the Stratus. I also don't think that HA-300b rolls anything off up top, but when heard in its entirety the zing and tizzle is couched within that lower mid-thickness. It's there when you search for it, but it's not as apparent as on the Stratus. I was just listening to Frank Black's Headache and on the Stratus I would get some of that sharpness come through, whereas on the Cayin that detail up top was a little tamed by the thickness below.

 

[smodtactical]

Some notes (all very preliminary and my di20he stopped working so that made things less than ideal):

stratus is 1 level above cayin
cayin is very good
stratus by no means destroys cayin
but when you listen you can hear it pretty clearly
the step above
stratus is very good at creating a 3d sound field

 

[erics75]

I'm honestly not really comfortable expounding on the differences between them yet. My HA-300 was outta commission while my WE tubes were sent back and I'm just now finally getting back into it. But I won't let that stop me

The Stratus, to me, is like a grand concert hall. The mids come through so clearly across that wide open stage and it leans warm, but it's not syrupy or wet. It's surprisingly tight, just not dry. When I compare it to my Glenn OTL, the Stratus sometimes spreads the music out so well and uniformly that the Glenn might come across more 'fun' or focused on slam and dynamics, while the Stratus just plays it all so effortlessly well. The Cayin is warmer and wetter to me (keep in the WE's have less than 100 hours) but not slow or syrupy at all, and it emphasizes the lower kids and bass a little more than the more even-handed Stratus. Cayin has a little more weight to it, big slam but not boosted slam, which the Glenn can sometimes feel like.

To make a ridiculous analogy, the Stratus is like smooth, creamy peanut butter while the Cayin is crunchy peanut butter. Still buttery smooth but with some extra oomph in the lower registers. Heavier and weightier while the Stratus flies like an agile angel.

To your analogy, if you had to compare the Stratus and the Cayin, yes - the Cayin is thicker and wetter and has more resonance, but I would never in a million years call the HA300b thick or wet, it's just in comparison to the Stratus. I also don't think that HA-300b rolls anything off up top, but when heard in its entirety the zing and tizzle is couched within that lower mid-thickness. It's there when you search for it, but it's not as apparent as on the Stratus. I was just listening to Frank Black's Headache and on the Stratus I would get some of that sharpness come through, whereas on the Cayin that detail up top was a little tamed by the thickness below.

Excellent comparison, thank you! Sounds like the 300b is leaning in the direction I was looking for.

 

[smodtactical]

I'm honestly not really comfortable expounding on the differences between them yet. My HA-300 was outta commission while my WE tubes were sent back and I'm just now finally getting back into it. But I won't let that stop me

The Stratus, to me, is like a grand concert hall. The mids come through so clearly across that wide open stage and it leans warm, but it's not syrupy or wet. It's surprisingly tight, just not dry. When I compare it to my Glenn OTL, the Stratus sometimes spreads the music out so well and uniformly that the Glenn might come across more 'fun' or focused on slam and dynamics, while the Stratus just plays it all so effortlessly well. The Cayin is warmer and wetter to me (keep in the WE's have less than 100 hours) but not slow or syrupy at all, and it emphasizes the lower kids and bass a little more than the more even-handed Stratus. Cayin has a little more weight to it, big slam but not boosted slam, which the Glenn can sometimes feel like.

To make a ridiculous analogy, the Stratus is like smooth, creamy peanut butter while the Cayin is crunchy peanut butter. Still buttery smooth but with some extra oomph in the lower registers. Heavier and weightier while the Stratus flies like an agile angel.

To your analogy, if you had to compare the Stratus and the Cayin, yes - the Cayin is thicker and wetter and has more resonance, but I would never in a million years call the HA300b thick or wet, it's just in comparison to the Stratus. I also don't think that HA-300b rolls anything off up top, but when heard in its entirety the zing and tizzle is couched within that lower mid-thickness. It's there when you search for it, but it's not as apparent as on the Stratus. I was just listening to Frank Black's Headache and on the Stratus I would get some of that sharpness come through, whereas on the Cayin that detail up top was a little tamed by the thickness below.

I agree. Cayin is the warmer amp but the dna does have its own warmth and tone which is extremely pleasing. I don't have balling tubes like big j though.

 

[erics75]

I agree. Cayin is the warmer amp but the dna does have its own warmth and tone which is extremely pleasing. I don't have balling tubes like big j though.

The tube part is what really scares me on any of the 300b amps. All the really good ones seem to be uber expensive. Like I can get two high end 2a3s for less than one decent 300b. I'm kinda hoping a used amp with decent tubes hits the classifieds so I can give it a try without having to buy new. That way if i don't like it, i can sell for what i bought for, more or less. But going in new i'll take that depreciation hit no matter what. No matter what happens, no way i'll part with the Stratus though, I love that blue beast. That's going into the coffin with me, along with my ZMFs.

 

[Lx3A]

Frank Black's Headache and on the Stratus I would get some of that sharpness come through

So your heart is getting crammed in your cranium? Sorry had to, love Frank/Francis/Charles. I liked your write up as well

 

[smodtactical]

I do like that slight bit of warmth in the cayin over the stratus though.

 

[Wes S]

I do like that slight bit of warmth in the cayin over the stratus though.

These things can change with tube rolls. . .

The WE take a good 200-300 hours before they should be taken seriously. Also, there are driver and rectifier tubes that come into the mix as well.

It would be really cool to see a comparison with both amps having top tier tube combos. . .however I have yet to find that one.

 

[bigjako]

The tube part is what really scares me on any of the 300b amps. All the really good ones seem to be uber expensive. Like I can get two high end 2a3s for less than one decent 300b. I'm kinda hoping a used amp with decent tubes hits the classifieds so I can give it a try without having to buy new. That way if i don't like it, i can sell for what i bought for, more or less. But going in new i'll take that depreciation hit no matter what. No matter what happens, no way i'll part with the Stratus though, I love that blue beast. That's going into the coffin with me, along with my ZMFs.

I hear you loud and clear on this, and it's the reason why when one of my WE's was in for service, the Cayin went dark - I didn't have a backup pair to use. For 300b you just have to advance straight to go instead of going up the food chain as you would with other tubes.

Maybe it's just a case of self-justification, but I'm happy with the price/risk ratio with the new WE's. $1500 is steep, but with a 5-year warranty, I'm happy to pay $300/year for TOTL tubes. Just make sure you mail the warranty card in within 10 days or whatever it is, otherwise it's a 90-day warranty, which is definitely NOT good.

@Wes S my (normal) tube compliments, which I think are pretty nice, are:
Stratus: Acme 2a3. Phillips Miniwatt GZ34, Fivre 6BQ7A
Cayin HA-300b: WE 300b's, stock RCA 22DE4s, White-label Mullard CV6

 

[Wes S]

I hear you loud and clear on this, and it's the reason why when one of my WE's was in for service, the Cayin went dark - I didn't have a backup pair to use. For 300b you just have to advance straight to go instead of going up the food chain as you would with other tubes.

Maybe it's just a case of self-justification, but I'm happy with the price/risk ratio with the new WE's. $1500 is steep, but with a 5-year warranty, I'm happy to pay $300/year for TOTL tubes. Just make sure you mail the warranty card in within 10 days or whatever it is, otherwise it's a 90-day warranty, which is definitely NOT good.

@Wes S my (normal) tube compliments, which I think are pretty nice, are:
Stratus: Acme 2a3. Phillips Miniwatt GZ34, Fivre 6BQ7A
Cayin HA-300b: WE 300b's, stock RCA 2DE4s, White-label Mullard CV6

Nice! Those are great tube combos aside from the RCA 22DE4, and those WE's get even better with a good 200 hours. Once you get there you will know, as the staging becomes absolutely massive.

 

[bigjako]

Nice! Those are great tube combos aside from the RCA 22DE4, and those WE's get even better with a good 200 hours. Once you get there you will know, as the staging becomes absolutely massive.

I have quads of GE 22DE4's, coin base and regular base, just have not a chance to roll them in yet. And I keep my eyes out for the Sictes but have not seen any for sale, anwhere.

 

[smodtactical]

I also enjoy my Susvara on my DNA amp. I've read elsewhere that others don't think the combination brings out the best in either but I respectfully disagree.

Interesting I thought stratus wouldn't have the current and power for Sus

 

[genefruit]

Interesting I thought stratus wouldn't have the current and power for Sus

I think there a number of factors that go into this. DAC/front end voltage levels, listening level, expectations, exposure to other offerings.

 

[LarsMan]

I think there a number of factors that go into this. DAC/front end voltage levels, listening level, expectations, exposure to other offerings.

Considering the scaleabliity of Susvara to the source amp, there will always be something with more current and power that will bring out even more from it - I'm sure there are plenty of amps that would be more appropriate for it than a Stratus or in my case also an EC Studio B, so it's a matter of deciding what you're happy with and enjoying that until you feel another need to upgrade. That's why I'm quite pleased listening to them through those lower-powered tube amps; they give plenty of volume and they do not sound thin or tinny. Might upgrade to something costing 3x as much some day, might not.