[visionaryBlend]

   
Why the Uber models? Also, if your short on cash you can start out with just the Modi and then add the dac later on.
 
If you hate the DT880 as they are without amp that is not gonna change. I think that those who really dislike the DT880 are using bad source though.

Don't you mean Magni? (Modi is the amp). And the Toslink and additional inputs don't look bad, although I will consider it. Maybe I won't have use for those.
And I assume I would use the DAC within my mobo? I am just slightly confused as to how I would hook up the Magni to my PC. (Do I need an RCA -> 3.5mm cable?)

 

[billybob_jcv]

Modi is the DAC, Magni is the amp.

 

[Keithpgdrb]

As I currently own both of these headphones, return the Beyers and get the 600's. From what you have said, I believe you will get more of what your looking for from the senn. The senn is 300 ohm, so more difficult to drive then the beyer 250. You would be happier with an amp eventually. But overal, the senn excels in the all important midrange, which is what I believe you are wanting as well. I do not like the 650. Can't recommend it.

 

[Shaffer]

As I currently own both of these headphones, return the Beyers and get the 600's. From what you have said, I believe you will get more of what your looking for from the senn. The senn is 300 ohm, so more difficult to drive then the beyer 250. You would be happier with an amp eventually. But overal, the senn excels in the all important midrange, which is what I believe you are wanting as well. I do not like the 650. Can't recommend it.

Actually, the opposite is true.

 

[billybob_jcv]

At the bottom right of all the InnerFidelity graphs is a handy set of data that everyone ignores:

DT880-250

Volts RMS required to reach 90dB SPL: 0.299 Vrms
Impedance @ 1kHz: 236 Ohms
Power Needed for 90d BSPL 0.38 mW
Broadband Isolation in dB (100Hz to 10kHz): -3 dBr

HD650

Volts RMS required to reach 90dB SPL: 0.205 Vrms
Impedance @ 1kHz: 320 Ohms
Power Needed for 90d BSPL 0.13 mW
Broadband Isolation in dB (100Hz to 10kHz): -2 dBr

HD600

Volts RMS required to reach 90dB SPL: 0.230 Vrms
Impedance @ 1kHz: 307 Ohms
Power Needed for 90d BSPL 0.17 mW
Broadband Isolation in dB (100Hz to 10kHz): -3 dBr

And just for a comparison, a REALLY difficult to drive headphone:

HiFiMan HE-6

Volts RMS required to reach 90dB SPL: 1.018 Vrms
Impedance @ 1kHz: 53 Ohms
Power Needed for 90d BSPL 19.69 mW
Broadband Isolation in dB (100Hz to 10kHz): -2 dBr

The key to the "higher impedance is difficult" myth is that for most amps, the max power (in milliwatts) the amp can output drops as the load increases. So, if your amp can't output 20 mW at 53 Ohms, then you won't have the power to achieve 90 dB on the HE-6. Many low cost amps struggle to output an adequate amount of power into very high loads. This all gets confused in the unwashed masses, and the result is the "higher impedance is harder to drive" mythos. If headphone and amp manufacturers would provide more useful specs, perhaps some of this confusion wouldn't exist.

 

[Me x3]

Actually, the opposite is true.

+1
 
Based on innerfidelity measurements DT880 250 Ohm needs 30% more voltage and more than twice the power HD600 needs to sound at the same level.

 

[kramer5150]

  Hello, this is my first time posting on Head-Fi Forums, so please do bear with me.
 
I recently purchased the DT880 Premium, 250 ohm version. This is my first foray into high end headphones, excluding Grado SR80i's. (which I enjoyed, until I had issues with rattly drivers on bassy freqs.) I also own Shure SE215's as a portable solution, which I find to be generally alright with it's strong mids, and thumping bass. The highs are average for me, failing to bring out detail sometimes, but they serve well as a beater pair with it's fun signature.
 
I find the sound to be hollow/dry in the midrange, and the spike within 9/10khz is also somewhat irritating, however the midrange is the most of my problems. EQ'ing it didn't give me much help, however that may be just because I don't equalise often, and I am not too good with it.
 
Other than that, I love the build quality and detail they bring forward. The lower mids may also be a tad too recessed for my liking, however.
 
I have it plugged it into a dated Panasonic Hifi system purposed for speakers (the "SA-HD52"), so I am uncertain if that is what is causing my issues.
 
I am seriously considering on switching these for Sennheiser HD600/650's, however other recommendations as to what I can do to help with this problem would be appreciated. I additionally considered in investing in a Maverick TubeMagic A1 coupled with a Matrix Mini-I Pro, but the sooner a solution (Since I still have about 30 days to return them through amazon) the better.
 
Here is my last.fm for additional headphone recommendations on the music that I listen to.
 
Thank you.

 
Midrange recession and a pronounced treble spike is the signature characteristic of the DT880.  My opinion is no off the shelf amp is going to fix this.  Or at least one that does, is going to sound pretty flawed with other phones that feature a more balanced spectral response.  Now you get into tube and OP amp rolling and thats where things can change.  I am a firm believer that amp circuits and components sound different, so fine tuning in that regard can make a big difference.  Now... back to the 880, where it has a HUGE disparity between the shallowest recessed upper midrange to its tallest treble spike.  On the order of ~10-14 db.  Thats a BIG difference between direct adjacent frequency bands.  Many enjoy this sound, Personally it triggers my tinnitus, even at the very low volumes I typically listen.  At those levels upper midrange tones are practically inaudible... and all I end up hearing is treble.
 
Your Panasonic compact bookshelf setup is not up to the task...IMHO.  Unless by some miracle it actually is.  The only way to know is to get a better amp and try it out.  But still I don't think you are going to alter the DT880 sonic signature all that much with an amp upgrade.  Unless theres a tube or OP amp combo you could roll in that works out.  I think the odds of that are slim... gut instinct.
 
You mention EQ-ing... tricky solution, that can help but also hinder.  Going back to the data, 10~14 dbs is no laughing matter thats a BIG difference for any EQ.  You start messing with EQ too much and you end up making matters worse, with over-lapping EQ bands.  Most commercial EQs (the one I use in the iTunes EQ for example) have too broad a "Q" slope to effectively boost and cut frequencies that are this close together.  You cut 8-10khz with a broad Q and boost 3-6.5khz with its equally broad Q slope and you end up with a very messy presentation where the slopes intersect.  I have no way to measure this though... so take this as mere opinion.  It would be interesting to measure THD and CSD response of a DT880 thats been EQ'd for a flatter response.  I am willing to bet theres some measured data that would jump out from such an analysis.
 
The HD600/650 I think is a great alternative.  I am partial to the 650 fwiw.  But IMHO both have a smoother junction between upper mids and treble.  The 650 also has some upper midrange recession accompanied by treble boost.  But IMHO it doesn't seem to be as severe as the DT880, at least not severe enough to trigger my tinnitus.
 
Have you considered the HD558/598?  They don't image a soundstage as far out as the 600/650... but still I find them a very enjoyable listen.  I also think the MDR-MA900 is a headphone you might also consider.  I heard it at a local meet and its a very good sounding option, it would fit right in line with the cans and amps in my profile.
 
FWIW... the MA900, HD600 have some of the cleanest spectral decay plots in this $200 price range.

 

 

 
And heres the DT880... really good too!!  its fierce treble spike is the Matterhorn on the top right corner... its peak is actually off their chart.  If you wanted to EQ-cut that down, you would have to find an EQ with a very steep "Q" slope, so as to not disturb the adjacent upper midrange tones.
 

 

[Tavilyn]

Unavailability of the x2 in the UK is a big deal, and that sucks. As far as it not being an all-arounder though...I dunno. It's fairly close, and reviews would tend to bear me out. Treble is not mean, but it's not squished either; you will get about as much treble from the HD598 as you would from the x2, and I imagine the same is true of the HD600/650.
 
Speaking of which, I have a question for you folks who know Sens really well...and I don't mean or intend to hijack the thread, this is just one question. I'm currently playing with a 598 out of a Fiio E10k. Will the 650 sound pretty much better across the board out of that same amp/dac, or will it sound worse because it's harder to drive? That's something I'm not clear on, and it greatly affects whether or not I'd consider purchasing a pair; they're five hundred Canadian dollars, which is about double what I paid for the 598s.

 

[Shaffer]

Honestly, I don't see how a spike at 10K is terribly relevant. That's fairly high in the spectrum and there isn't a whole lot of sound there. The sizzle (not the strike) of the cymbals and room ambiance? Sure.

 

[tomb]

Honestly, I don't see how a spike at 10K is terribly relevant. That's fairly high in the spectrum and there isn't a whole lot of sound there. The sizzle (not the strike) of the cymbals and room ambiance? Sure.

I suspect that "10K" is probably a nom de guerre.  The complaint is a spike in the high-end.  Whether it's actually 10K or 6K doesn't really matter - there are plenty to pick from on the DT880.  The 10K is probably the most obvious on the graphs and everyone calls it that.
 
 
EDIT: Mixing my French.

 

[Shaffer]

[...]

[OT] Just looked through your site. Wish I had the same hands as I did at 25; my soldering isn't great these days. I really like the T-shirts. Any plans for a 2XL? [/OT]

 

[visionaryBlend]

   
[...] Have you considered the HD558/598? [...]

I want to spend a little bit more money, about £200, but out of curiosity, how does the 558 perform in comparison? I could buy that and perform the foam mod.

 

[kramer5150]

 
I suspect that "10K" is probably a nom de guerre.  The complaint is a spike in the high-end.  Whether it's actually 10K or 6K doesn't really matter - there are plenty to pick from on the DT880.  The 10K is probably the most obvious on the graphs and everyone calls it that.
 
 
EDIT: Mixing my French.

x2... minus the French part, which appears to be questionable ;^)

 

[kramer5150]

  I want to spend a little bit more money, about £200, but out of curiosity, how does the 558 perform in comparison? I could buy that and perform the foam mod.

I need to stop recommending the HD558... every time I do the inevitable 558/598 question surfaces immediately afterwords.  For which I ave no real answer, having not owned a 598.  I will have to defer that to others.  8^(  Seems a waste to buy a 598 just so I can compare it to the 558.... sigh.

 

[visionaryBlend]

  I need to stop recommending the HD558... every time I do the inevitable 558/598 question surfaces immediately afterwords.  For which I ave no real answer, having not owned a 598.  I will have to defer that to others.  8^(  Seems a waste to buy a 598 just so I can compare it to the 558.... sigh.

It it said on the whole that the 558 is a kneecapped 598 with a bit of foam and different build without that "Noctua turd brown" colour scheme. But I don't know that much.
How would you describe the signature of the Sony's you mentioned? I am hesitant to buy more obscure headphones, though.