Earbuds Round-Up
Sep 16, 2023 at 11:42 PM Post #71,701 of 75,753
That's great! how are they technically and in terms of tuning? which one do you prefer?
Technically they are on par to me. DS having more of a balance between macro and micro dynamics where APWS leans more to the micro side. DS has a better 3-D image and overall better resolution. APWS is more mid bass but also has better treble but this is my opinion and others may disagree with me. APWS also has the upper hand in timbre and tonality sounding utterly natural especially with acoustic instruments however it’s secret sauce is vocals and female in particular and give a forward center image that is quite addicting.

I go back and forth over which I prefer. APWS is my favorite but I honestly listen to them equally. Because with DS I can put my entire library on shuffle and know it will sound good. APWS I have to be selective.

I hope this help.
 
Sep 17, 2023 at 12:07 AM Post #71,702 of 75,753
Good day for all the readers in this forum.

So here is one of my first review of the Toneking New Black Mamba. Sorry for the pictureless review, I don't have any skill of photography.

This earbud come with pretty basic packaging:
a box,
a carrying pouch,
4 pairs of full foam,
4 pairs of donut foam,
1 pair of earhook,
1 jack protector.

Gear : Direct Sony Xperia 1 ii no amp in my posession + All 4 Full Foam + Apple Music Lossless Stream. 50 hours of brain and 100 hours driver burn in. LOL. I listen with high volume to get enough dynamic.

Fitting : Pretty light, feel solid, small and feel comfy in my ear. I need to push a little bit in my ear to get a proper bass, if not you get a very lean bass

This earbud has a bright signature.
I don't have a sensitive ear, and can't pint point any frequency and don't even know about the frequency respond graph. Please take it with a grain of salt. This is purely a subjective take of my point of view. Based on my experience and previously own gear.

Bass : You can't expect having deep bass with this earbud. The subbass is lean and so lean that you can't properly hear it. The midbass is a bit better, you can hear it but not feel it, no visceral fell to. Upperbass is somewhat weak too. This give a clean feel of the sound. But still it is weaker than the rest of the spectrum. Not the best part of this earbud.

Mid : Oh yess this thing can give you a really nice texture, detail and transparency in the middle frequency. The instrument feel so real, alive and give really nice oomph, you know what I mean about. Hearing this with a lot of instrument base song give you a bliss. The vocal is clean but not thin at all, the low mid have a nice touch but not much, that make the male vocal in this earbud sound not complete. The female vocal base song, sound like heaven, especially asian female singer, korean, japanese and indonesian song, but sound really great with japanese song. I can't get this sound in any of my previous iem, headphone, earbud. I don't know, I can't describe it. Maybe I need to try cachonne to compare with this. The placement is nice in the middle, not forward nor behind. String base instrument is sounded real in this thing, violin, cello, guitar. Sadly this earbud are not made for the new electronic song.

Treble : This region is have a lot of energy beware if you have treble sensitive ear like me, you are gonna find it a little bit fatiguing. By all that means this earbud is not harsh at all, it extended well, giving nice air, energy and a good toe tapping feel. Cymbal crashes nicely, enough decay. This thing have a forward treble presentation and energy make band base song sound nice. The realism. The Air.

Technicalities : This is the most detailed and transparent earbud I ever heard, gave you every single note in your song, the vibration of the instrument, everything. Separation is so wow, you feel like drag in the music. Imaging is place nicely. Soundstage is wide and deep. The height are somewhat average. Dynamic is good but you need to remember I hear it with high volume.

Comparison :
From memory, cause I sell them recently. All using full foam

Sennheiser MX985, this earbud has better height soundstage, more completed bass and smooth high. Bass feel more viceral than the BM. I hear more subbass and more kick. Low mids are full so the male vocal feel complete. Vocal feel more forward than the BM. I like female vocal in BM than the MX985. Trebles are more weak but didn't lack any detail. The Black Mamba feel more forward and have better energy. Sennheiser is better for longer listening session, Black Mamba is for shorter session and someone who need more energy. Detail, Separation, Imaging are better on BM, Transparency are about the same. Piano sound better on MX985, String base instrument better on BM. BM feel more airy, breathy, brighter.
In classical music Black Mamba sound more real and better. I like Sennheiser for watching movie because having more low end.

Shozy Stardust BK. I don't really like this earbud in the first place, and doesn't like the donut foam too in the first place. Sound too smooth for me. Bass is better than BM but not in MX985 territory. Male vocal sound good, better than BM, below MX985. Female vocal are not even on par with BM, lol, I can't feel the energy. Soundstage width and depth are better on BM, but Height are better in Stardust. If you want to use earbud for hours maybe 12 hours or more, in term of sound and fitting I recommend the Stardust.

Conclucion.
I don't even know this brand before and not even know of their product. I blind buy this thing based on the name Black Mamba one of the aespa song, yeah you heard it, one of aespa fan here not sound good for Kpop song, even it is stupid typo in the Mamba. I have really odd of genre, KPop, Jpop, Ipop, Instrument, Classical, Rock and a lot, then I realise this tuning is bliss for the real instrument recording. The Female vocal feel so heaven, the bite, the air, the breath. Maybe I am bitten by their recent Snake. The Black Mamba.

Thanks all.
Satrya.
 
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Sep 17, 2023 at 12:27 AM Post #71,703 of 75,753
Technically they are on par to me. DS having more of a balance between macro and micro dynamics where APWS leans more to the micro side. DS has a better 3-D image and overall better resolution. APWS is more mid bass but also has better treble but this is my opinion and others may disagree with me. APWS also has the upper hand in timbre and tonality sounding utterly natural especially with acoustic instruments however it’s secret sauce is vocals and female in particular and give a forward center image that is quite addicting.

I go back and forth over which I prefer. APWS is my favorite but I honestly listen to them equally. Because with DS I can put my entire library on shuffle and know it will sound good. APWS I have to be selective.

I hope this help.
do you know the manufacturer's name or website for the CAX Black Dragon Susvara product? where can they be reached?
 
Sep 17, 2023 at 12:29 AM Post #71,704 of 75,753
do you know the manufacturer's name or website for the CAX Black Dragon Susvara product? where can they be reached?
You have to email him. I have his email. Send me a pm.
 
Sep 17, 2023 at 12:37 AM Post #71,705 of 75,753
Nice collection going there. I don't have any VE buds, so I'm wondering which of those earbuds do you consider as your top 3 favorites and maybe a brief description of their sound profiles?

APWS (TOTL) - Neutral bright. Technical, Natural timbre, mid focus with emphasis on the vocals. Resolving details. Light on bass. Needs amp to excel

Zen LL (Favorite) - Neutral warm. smooth treble with focus on mids. More mid nass focus than sub. Vocals are nice on these as well. Might sound artificial to some. Sounds more open.

Monk A1 (Budget) - Neutral Analog. Newest release. Retro and fun sound. Doesnt require as much power. Perfectly balanced with crisp vocals, organic timbre, and very open soundstage for earbud.

Venture Electronics are top tier when it comes to tuning for earbuds.
 
Sep 17, 2023 at 1:16 AM Post #71,706 of 75,753
APWS (TOTL) - Neutral bright. Technical, Natural timbre, mid focus with emphasis on the vocals. Resolving details. Light on bass. Needs amp to excel

Zen LL (Favorite) - Neutral warm. smooth treble with focus on mids. More mid nass focus than sub. Vocals are nice on these as well. Might sound artificial to some. Sounds more open.

Monk A1 (Budget) - Neutral Analog. Newest release. Retro and fun sound. Doesnt require as much power. Perfectly balanced with crisp vocals, organic timbre, and very open soundstage for earbud.

Venture Electronics are top tier when it comes to tuning for earbuds.
How would you compare the Zen LL to the Asura 3.0 FE (which I have)?
Do you have the RA2B-FE amp and Prime DAC stack? If so, could you compare to Megatron?
How would Megatron compare as a solo DAC with Prime DAC? Thanks!
 
Sep 17, 2023 at 8:55 AM Post #71,707 of 75,753
Is there some guide adn/or consensus concerning FR measurements addressing flat-head earbuds specifics? I guess, IEC711 mic, mic sleeve (coupler), black plate and artificial ear are used, aren't they?
 
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Sep 17, 2023 at 8:03 PM Post #71,708 of 75,753
Is there some guide adn/or consensus concerning FR measurements addressing flat-head earbuds specifics? I guess, IEC711 mic, mic sleeve (coupler), black plate and artificial ear are used, aren't they?
Visit this page: https://clarityfidelity.blogspot.com/2015/05/introduction-measurement-procedures.html

View this YT video by Ian Fann (open the video at YT to see his comments):

The video is about measuring IEMs, but watch it and learn configuration setting in REW and about the IEC711 coupler used with USB amplifier. He also provides an AE link to where he purchased his measuring rig. The AE store he recommends will also supply the IEC711 serial number specific calibration file you import into REW.

I think IEC711 with metal table base is more stable for black plate and artificial ear than IEC711 without a base.
 
Sep 18, 2023 at 12:08 AM Post #71,709 of 75,753
just wanted to let you guys know, that you should never pay attention to any of my posts. I ranted about the FF5, The Ucotech brilliante and the Alpha 3 lately and stated, that they all were bright and piercing without soundstage. Well, it turns out, that i was wrong and the Ucotech gets the most listening time atm. will let you know how things will develop further.
 
Sep 18, 2023 at 3:39 AM Post #71,710 of 75,753
Visit this page: https://clarityfidelity.blogspot.com/2015/05/introduction-measurement-procedures.html

View this YT video by Ian Fann (open the video at YT to see his comments):

The video is about measuring IEMs, but watch it and learn configuration setting in REW and about the IEC711 coupler used with USB amplifier. He also provides an AE link to where he purchased his measuring rig. The AE store he recommends will also supply the IEC711 serial number specific calibration file you import into REW.

I think IEC711 with metal table base is more stable for black plate and artificial ear than IEC711 without a base.


Thanks, I will look. But the thing is I already uses mic+coupler for IEMs during a year or more (and results are in par with onthers' ones). So I just ordered (and got) black plate and artificial pinna. Quick try resulted in very low LF level (say, I have looked at https://ianfann.squig.link/?share=EARBUDS_-_BGVP_DX6 And my attempts to measure DX6 resulted in fast fall below 200 Hz). So the question is more related flat-head earbuds themselves rather than overall measurement procedure.
 
Sep 18, 2023 at 3:50 AM Post #71,711 of 75,753
Thanks, I will look. But the thing is I already uses mic+coupler for IEMs during a year or more (and results are in par with onthers' ones). So I just ordered (and got) black plate and artificial pinna. Quick try resulted in very low LF level (say, I have looked at https://ianfann.squig.link/?share=EARBUDS_-_BGVP_DX6 And my attempts to measure DX6 resulted in fast fall below 200 Hz). So the question is more related flat-head earbuds themselves rather than overall measurement procedure.

Flathead earbuds are extremely difficult to measure on a coupler, unlike IEMs or headphones.

Cause of the sealing issue. Even small movements in the earbud position/depth will change the graphs produced, not to mention the type/density of foam. You can explore packing the coupler measurement with tape or something to ensure the best seal, but for those reasons, earbud graphs are not meant to be compared across different users with different rigs, and are best compared internally with the same setup.
 
Sep 18, 2023 at 3:53 AM Post #71,712 of 75,753
Flathead earbuds are extremely difficult to measure on a coupler, unlike IEMs or headphones.

Cause of the sealing issue. Even small movements in the earbud position/depth will change the graphs produced, not to mention the type/density of foam. You can explore packing the coupler measurement with tape or something to ensure the best seal, but for those reasons, earbud graphs are not meant to be compared across different users with different rigs, and are best compared internally with the same setup.
But artificial silicon (or what) pina which I have got is standard.
 
Sep 18, 2023 at 3:56 AM Post #71,713 of 75,753
But artificial silicon (or what) pina which I have got is standard.

It is a standard device yes, but different people insert the earbud differently into the device. Different foam tip type/density, different depth of insertion, different sealing. Minute movements or lack of seal will warp the earbud graph easily.
 
Sep 18, 2023 at 4:43 AM Post #71,714 of 75,753
It is a standard device yes, but different people insert the earbud differently into the device. Different foam tip type/density, different depth of insertion, different sealing. Minute movements or lack of seal will warp the earbud graph easily.
Yes, but we use earbuds without complete sealing (just tiny step towards to sealing with foams). I want to say, real earbuds using and measured result don't correlate in LF area.

Ok, probably I need to play more with my new third ear...
 
Sep 18, 2023 at 6:14 AM Post #71,715 of 75,753
Yes, but we use earbuds without complete sealing (just tiny step towards to sealing with foams). I want to say, real earbuds using and measured result don't correlate in LF area.

Ok, probably I need to play more with my new third ear...

Agreed, so earbud graphs are kind of a meme.

Different ear anatomy and usage in real life scenarios will make a earbud graph moot if it is not used in the same way as how it was measured.
 

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