ECP Audio T4 Headphone Amplifier - Built and Sold by BeezarAudio
Apr 28, 2020 at 4:07 PM Post #46 of 103
I am trying to order (as you've completely suckered me,) however, the Add To Cart keeps hanging. Initially using a VPN (as I always do,) so can you clarify if this issue pertains just to me or an current error for the site.

There seems to be a Security Certificate issue as well.

I just tried it on the site and there was no issue. There have been network issues in the states earlier today, maybe that was affecting it. As you stated, your VPN may be causing an issue, too. In any event, if you still have an issue, contact me directly and we will work something out. :)

EDIT: Head-Fi just glitched on me in posting this.
 
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Apr 28, 2020 at 4:12 PM Post #47 of 103
As well, I presume no, but to clarify, using XLR to TRS adapters for output is fine -- no XLR to RCA adapters for the input, correct?
Yes to both, really. There is no issue on any amp with an XLR-to-RCA, AFAIK. The XLR to TRS is a different matter. It's absolutely fine on the T4, but an amp with a fully balanced and DC-coupled output would short out.
 
Apr 28, 2020 at 4:40 PM Post #48 of 103
I just tried it on the site and there was no issue. There have been network issues in the states earlier today, maybe that was affecting it. As you stated, your VPN may be causing an issue, too. In any event, if you still have an issue, contact me directly and we will work something out. :)

EDIT: Head-Fi just glitched on me in posting this.
The issue may have been due to the network earlier. I've placed my order. Thanks.
 
Apr 28, 2020 at 11:53 PM Post #49 of 103
Yes to both, really. There is no issue on any amp with an XLR-to-RCA, AFAIK. The XLR to TRS is a different matter. It's absolutely fine on the T4, but an amp with a fully balanced and DC-coupled output would short out.
Trying desperately to find a $1300 max alternative to your $2k t4 headphone amp. Tor, from ukraine, has a $960 headphone amp, balanced xlr, 4 toroidal transformers, point to point, shortest wires, 2 tubes. Only zeos has reviewed it, saying best in class, never seen by anyone else. Do I just buy it under his 14 day return policy. Never had tubes, cant repair anything myself.have a schiit jutenheim which is shrill and piercing to my overly tremble sensitive ears
 
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Apr 29, 2020 at 1:02 AM Post #50 of 103
Trying desperately to find a $1300 max alternative to your $2k t4 headphone amp. Tor, from ukraine, has a $960 headphone amp, balanced xlr, 4 toroidal transformers, point to point, shortest wires, 2 tubes. Only zeos has reviewed it, saying best in class, never seen by anyone else. Do I just buy it under his 14 day return policy. Never had tubes, cant repair anything myself.have a schiit jutenheim which is shrill and piercing to my overly tremble sensitive ears

The only way to know for sure is to go for it. Only your ears will know.

BUT...
  • Is there a restocking fee?
  • What will shipping cost both ways to find out?
  • What if it needs warranty/servicing?
  • Is Zeos the reviewer whose taste in sound matches yours?
  • 'Best in class' and 'never seen' seem mutually exclusive to me
My 2c. YMMV.
 
Apr 29, 2020 at 9:08 PM Post #51 of 103
Trying desperately to find a $1300 max alternative to your $2k t4 headphone amp. Tor, from ukraine, has a $960 headphone amp, balanced xlr, 4 toroidal transformers, point to point, shortest wires, 2 tubes. Only zeos has reviewed it, saying best in class, never seen by anyone else. Do I just buy it under his 14 day return policy. Never had tubes, cant repair anything myself.have a schiit jutenheim which is shrill and piercing to my overly tremble sensitive ears

I can't give you absolute advice, only give you my experience in working, building, and selling ECP Audio designs. I can state this, at least:
  1. Toroids are nice, but they mean little outside of a power application. Their construction is least likely to leak 60Hz noise, but that is important for a power transformer, and relatively meaningless in audio output transformers. If there are 4 in the amp you mention, I doubt seriously that they makeup the power supply.
  2. Point to point is fine for tubes, but it leaves open a wide variance of construction quality.
  3. The number one thing that ECP Audio amplifiers address is harshness, shrillness, and piercing sound. This is so much the case, as referenced at least once in my many posts above, that ECP Audio amplifiers do not make a "splash" upon first listening or at headphone meets. Instead, they stand the test of time as something you can live with, listen to the music, and not suffer fatigue.
With every T4 I build, I audition it to ensure that everything is working correctly. Without fail, I find myself listening to the music and an hour or two has gone by before realizing it.
 
Apr 30, 2020 at 1:04 PM Post #52 of 103
While I start work on the power transformers, I also start rinsing/cleaning the PCBs. I'm not sure anyone does this anymore, but I've been told that stray flux will corrode over time - or at least collect loads of dirt and stain - and eventually get so bad that it will conduct electrical current. So, I was always taught to clean up a soldering job.

Many people recommend flux - the more, the better. Generally, that is true, especially if you are soldering metal-to-metal for strength joints. I go way back (an old fart, now) and first started soldering to build brass slot car chassis in the late 60's. I was still only a teenager. Back then, the order of the day was Kester rosin-core solder, with a hockey-puck sized tub of Kester soldering paste. Soldering irons for brass were best with an Ungar. You'd dip the end of the solder into the tub of flux, wait for the iron to melt/boil the flux paste on the end of the solder, then apply the solder. it worked well and was even fairly easy to clean up on the brass chassis that was built.

Electronics soldering is different. The parts are small and delicate. Too much flux and it becomes a nightmare to clean, and damaging parts becomes more likely. So, I like to use flux only when something gives me trouble soldering - or with SMD. I always use a flux pen with SMD. The flux quickly partially dries into almost a glue. So, it helps to stabilize the part while soldering. In a lot of cases, a full flush of alcohol works quite well, so cleanup is not so bad - even with the additional flux - in using SMD. Without leads, the parts are not so delicate. There are always exceptions, of course.

The solder I use is still Kester rosin-core, but is eutectic 63-37. The rosin core, 99 times out of 100, is sufficient flux to make a great joint. It still leaves quite a bit of flux residue, however.

So … I rinse and clean every PCB with alcohol. I do this until most, if not all, of the flux is removed and the PCB is nice and shiny. It's not rocket science and very rudimentary, but I wouldn't feel right selling an electronic product without doing it. The pic below shows the basic tools (very complicated! :wink:
Clean1.jpg

Walmart 91% isopropyl alcohol, a used butter tub, old toothbrush, and paper towels. (The Pug soap dispenser is optional.). I also use Q-tips, but more on that later on.

On the other side of the sink, the PCB is placed top down on a set of paper towels:
Clean2.jpg


Looking at the pic below, you can see why this is necessary. The area around the tube sockets are worst, because of all the solder I use to make a good mechanical joint:
Clean2a.jpg

Notice the large clear bubbles of solder flux residue around the tube socket pins and all the other leads, too. This is what we want to remove, so it won't cause issues years later. If you've ever opened up vintage electronic equipment, you'll know what I mean. Even stuff made in the 80's and 90's can look pretty rough if the flux was not cleaned off.

It generally takes about six rinses of alcohol, applied with the toothbrush by dipping into the butter tub, coating the PCB with the brush, and rubbing/brushing at the leads and pins where the flux collects. Then I pat up the dissolved alcohol/flux with paper towels, before the alcohol completely evaporates. As said, it's far from rocket science and very tedious, but necessary.

I use the simple Walmart 91% alcohol because it works best. I purchased some commercial flux remover solution years ago, but just using a little almost knocked me out. It also didn't remove the flux as well as simple alcohol. I've never used it since. Sometimes the alcohol fumes get strong, but TELs are quite high for alcohol and the coating is quite thin. I think it works the best.

Here's what it looks like after the first rinse. One might think it's not worth the trouble, because this looks ten times worse than before we started, with streaks and gunk everywhere:
Clean3.jpg


This shows the paper towels absorbing the dissolved flux/alcohol rinse. When it's thick, the paper towels will turn a yellow-brown where it picks up the mixture:
Clean4.jpg


Believe it or not, this pic is very, very close to being completely clean. When it looks like this - dissolved white powder everywhere - it means that the hard, dried flux bubbles have all been dissolved and are drying as a fine rosin powder all over the PCB. From this point, it only takes about two more rinses:
Clean5.jpg


Here is a PCB completely rinsed, nice and shiny:
Clean6.jpg

The Q-tips at bottom are used for the top of the PCB, to clean off the flux-pen residue from the SMD transistors.

Here's a closeup of the tube socket area that we pictured above - big difference, now!
Clean6a.jpg

Note that the slight bulging around the tube socket pins is NOT flux, but the FRP of the PCB material, bulging at the edges of the holes because they are so large for the tube sockets. It is not flux.

And the rinsed top of the PCB:
Clean7.jpg

The Q-tips make it easy with the flux-pen residue: one tip to apply the alcohol, the other tip to wipe it up. It's a bit harder than that sometimes, but not too much.

Thanks for your patience! I know this is not flashy stuff, but a necessary part of the building process.
 
Apr 30, 2020 at 4:06 PM Post #53 of 103
Patience. Nods.

With the amount of meticulous thought you guys spent and spend in the design and execution, it's easy to wait for.
 
May 1, 2020 at 5:01 AM Post #54 of 103
Hi tomb, how will this amp do if we plan to primarily use it to drive the Focal Utopia (impedance 80Ω, sensitivity 104dB SPL / 1mW @ 1kHz)? I find the Utopia to be quite picky amplification-wise because the bass becomes wooly with the wrong amp.
 
May 1, 2020 at 6:35 AM Post #55 of 103
Hi tomb, how will this amp do if we plan to primarily use it to drive the Focal Utopia (impedance 80Ω, sensitivity 104dB SPL / 1mW @ 1kHz)? I find the Utopia to be quite picky amplification-wise because the bass becomes wooly with the wrong amp.
The LoZ setting on the T4 is specifically optimized for the Focal Utopia/Clear. It's why ECP Audio went to Lundahl for a custom output transformer design. At low Z, the DC resistance of the output transformers pretty much dictate the output impedance of the amp. The ECP/Lundahls are the lowest DC resistance output transformers on the market, AFAIK.
 
May 1, 2020 at 6:45 PM Post #56 of 103
Tom,

Thanks for that input, I dont put much stock on this from just a viewpoint, they are pretty narrow minded folks IMO. They have many interesting discussions and viewpoints but the tolerance for other stuff is limited as far as my experience goes....

From the 12 amps + I have here and having several parafeed tube amps, I can say with the Focal Clears specifically it doesnt get much better than the T4.

And it worked very well with several other headphones....

I think both amps are stellar...and would be happy with either one....SS or tube? Your choice....

But to state one amp is the unequivocal best for ALL headphones, I think not.

Alex
Alex, trying to compare the ecp t4 hybrid $2k w two 12at7 to the zmf pendant pure tube amp $2k. W one 12at mullard input signal tube. My primary cans are 80 ohm focal elears, 300 ohm hd6xx senns, and less often m1060 50 ohm planar, and fostex purples. Gumby dac. My jutenheim is too harsh for my treble sensitive ears. Did you try both? Never did tubes and dont expect to tube roll. Both about same .29 mv. Atomic bob likes t4, torq likes pendant, my 2 go to guys. Expect both t4 and zmf would have defined bass vs piercing jutenheim. Zeos loves the $960 tor balanced xlr in and out, but my impressions are the tor is a kit by newcomers in the ukraine. I rejected the tor since there are few details and no reviews. I like the way beezer does his build log. I have no way here in nj to compare the sounds of this hybrid t4 to full tube pendent. Hoping you have a diffentiating opinion, since you seem to mirror my thought very often.
 
May 1, 2020 at 7:42 PM Post #57 of 103
I didnt have the Jotenheim when I had the T4 in house.

I dont have any first hand experience with the Pendant, but it looks like a wonderful amp from what I read and hear.

My experience with the T4 was several days and I was very impressed at its performance, some folks place it in the top 3 or so of amps.

The Pendant looks like its rated output power specs are greater than the T4, that said I never had an issue with driving most anything here...from 13 ohm planars to 600 ohm T1R2's....

$2K is a lot of money for a headphone amp, but this is one amp that I really think your getting your moneys worth...great design, good looks, only two tubes to muck with if you like chasing NOS tubes...

Tom is a meticulous builder and is very proud of his product, its solidly built and I would not hesitate a purchase of this amp.

One thing I like is if you have an issue how hard is it to take care of the issue, how hard is the company to contact etc...with Tom he has always answered my emails and questions.

This is one amp I hope to own someday!

Alex
 
May 1, 2020 at 7:46 PM Post #58 of 103
Alex, trying to compare the ecp t4 hybrid $2k w two 12at7 to the zmf pendant pure tube amp $2k. W one 12at mullard input signal tube. My primary cans are 80 ohm focal elears, 300 ohm hd6xx senns, and less often m1060 50 ohm planar, and fostex purples. Gumby dac. My jutenheim is too harsh for my treble sensitive ears. Did you try both? Never did tubes and dont expect to tube roll. Both about same .29 mv. Atomic bob likes t4, torq likes pendant, my 2 go to guys. Expect both t4 and zmf would have defined bass vs piercing jutenheim. Zeos loves the $960 tor balanced xlr in and out, but my impressions are the tor is a kit by newcomers in the ukraine. I rejected the tor since there are few details and no reviews. I like the way beezer does his build log. I have no way here in nj to compare the sounds of this hybrid t4 to full tube pendent. Hoping you have a diffentiating opinion, since you seem to mirror my thought very often.

@file1man, I just went through the same A or B with the Pendant and T4 and ordered a T4. I did have some PM's back and forth with Tom and decided I'd give the T4 a try. I will be pairing it with ZMF Verite and Meze Empyeans so we'll see in a few weeks!
 
May 2, 2020 at 2:28 AM Post #59 of 103
The LoZ setting on the T4 is specifically optimized for the Focal Utopia/Clear. It's why ECP Audio went to Lundahl for a custom output transformer design. At low Z, the DC resistance of the output transformers pretty much dictate the output impedance of the amp. The ECP/Lundahls are the lowest DC resistance output transformers on the market, AFAIK.

Tomb, thank you for the input. I tried the T3 with the Utopia and it wasn't an optimal pairing because of the aforementioned bass bloat.
 
May 3, 2020 at 2:09 PM Post #60 of 103
Tomb, thank you for the input. I tried the T3 with the Utopia and it wasn't an optimal pairing because of the aforementioned bass bloat.
Yep. The Cinemag output transformers used on the T3 had too high of a DC resistance. The result was a higher output impedance than optimal for Focal headphones.
 

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