Empire Ears - Discussion & Impressions (Formerly EarWerkz)
- Thread starter Jack Vang
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I think, apart from that, the Raven’s treble also extends far further than the ODIN, EVO or Odyssey. The added air and headroom casts more of a light on everything else, so those bass notes are etched with cleaner, sharper lines, which is what you’re hearing when you say they’re more discernible.
BTW, ‘kinda random, but I tried to draw the Raven’s internals from memory. They had an earlier prototype of it with a clear shell. It was actually super symmetrical and satisfying.
Very good point.
Had another go with Raven today using the Genesis cable from Legend Evo - found it to be more to my liking (though I still like Odin better). Don’t lose any bass quantity but have better control on it. Funny because 2 of the 3 demo have faulty cables, so the pairing was an unintentional find for me.
It is bigger than Odin so beware if you had got issues previously. I had experienced some driver flex until I position it properly.
It is bigger than Odin so beware if you had got issues previously. I had experienced some driver flex until I position it properly.
Did anyone happen to hear if it’ll be universal only, or have a custom option like the Odin?
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Had another go with Raven today using the Genesis cable from Legend Evo - found it to be more to my liking (though I still like Odin better). Don’t lose any bass quantity but have better control on it. Funny because 2 of the 3 demo have faulty cables, so the pairing was an unintentional find for me.
It is bigger than Odin so beware if you had got issues previously. I had experienced some driver flex until I position it properly.
Those aren’t final design so size may change.
"But the Raven still beguiling all my fancy into smiling,"ODIN has spoken, and the Ravens have been summoned
See you all in a few hours at CanJam Singapore
Looking forward to listening to it...
mikejazz
100+ Head-Fier
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Hey All!
I haven't posted much in the past. I'd just go on Head-Fi every few years when I wanted to upgrade---and get much needed opinions. I've recently retired (from touring) and have a bit more time on my hands.
Let me introduce myself for those who don't know me. My name is Michael Arnopol and I'm a professional jazz bassist and speaker designer. I've played on well over 100 recordings---some that have won Grammy's.I'm known the most by my playing with jazz vocalist Patricia Barber---but i've toured and recorded with many other artists.
I'm just saying this to give a perspective on where I'm coming from. I was introduced to high end headphones back in 2010 when I was asked to be a beta tester for Jerry Harvey's JH 13. I also played at the Chicago Can Jam that year with my trio. About four years ago I got back into headphone listening---with a vengence.Since I have the financial challenges of a working artist, I can only afford one can, and one source at a time.I was fortunate that some of the manufacturers knew my work and were kind enough to make some of the higher end gears a bit more attainable for me. (most of the musicians that make the music you listen to could never afford the gear you use!)
As far as cans, I've owned the LCD I4, the Verite closed, the HE1000se, The Meze Liric, and the EVO. Fortunately I have a few friends in town that have owned almost everything, and I've had the ability to try them.
I wanted to offer a bit different take on the EVO.
I only stream from Qobuz through Audirvana. I use Audirvana because it gives me the ability to use studio grade plugins.Probably the BEST investment I've made is Fabfilter's Pro Eq. It cracks me up when people say "I don't use eq--I want to hear what the artist and engineer intended: Well--you're hearing what the producer intended--oftentimes at odds with the artist and engineer.And---some engineers suck. Even good ones screw up.I often
times disagree with the balance of the low end. And---EVERY headphone I've ever heard benefits from eq. It's impossible to make something perfect. Also---I don't completely agree with the Harmon Curve.I feel that the bass is exaggerated .
I play bass. Acoustic and electric. I want the bass correct. I don't listen for fun. I listen to transcend the gear I'm listening through.And if there is too much midbass (the biggest thing most designers are guilty of--it gives an exegerrated perception of bass) or too much upper bass/lower mids (puts a blanket over everything above it, but gives an exagerrated sense of "warmth") it draws my attention to that---which I don't want. Some of the Patricia Barber recordings have won Gammy's for engineering, and two were on Stereophile's "Cd's to Die For" I only mention this because I know exactly what my upright or electric bass sound like. There is a song--"Ode to Billy Joe" that is just bass and voice. The great Jim Anderson recorded and produced it. I hate listening to anything that I'm on, but with that cut---I can tell exactly what my bass should sound like. Too much lower bass---it sounds like reggae. Too much mid or upper bass--it's not my bass.On the vocals---I know exactly what she sounds like. This cut is still used by many to assess gear. I am varied in my listening--actually I listen to less jazz than other music!
The EVO. Without EQ---at least for me---I can't listen to it. (I don't really like anything without some eq) I bring it down 5db in the low end just to match the Harmon Curve! When properly eq'd---it's amazing. But---Everyone here just discusses various cans with the voicing as the main standard. I couldn't care less about voicing. I'll eq to the voicing that I prefer. (which is obviously not everyon's preference---whatever gets you lost in the music!) I can get any two headphones voiced the same. But they don't SOUND the same! One quality that I like to talk about is the "note envelope". How the note starts, how it develops, and how it decays---for me this is the most important element of bass response. If the attack or decay ain't perfect---the bass is wrong. Many dynamic driver low ends lose in this department. DD drivers can move air and give weight to the low end, but they are not as good at decay. I love planars in this respect----but the DD's can give more note weight. The hangover between notes in DD drivers can obscure the pace of the bass line.
Why I LOVE the EVO. The BEST implementation of the Bone Conduction Driver. It restores the physicality of the music. This is something no frequency response can do. My bass doesn't just sound like my bass---the physical feeling of me playing my bass is like I've never experienced. I have spent my life standing next to drums and pianos---as well as all other instruments. I've heard snare drums sound really great--but until the Evo, I haven't felt the snare like I do standing next to one.On the album by Steeley Dan " Two Against Nature" the snare is recorded pretty aggressively. On some cans---it can take your head off. But with the Evo (there are at least three different drummers on it) not only do I get the physical sense, but I can clearly tell the difference between the various snares. The BCD doesn't just improve the bass---cymbals have just the correct physical "ping", pianos have the right weight of attack. It feels like when I'm standing next to the piano. Because of this accuracy, I can tell you what kind of electric bass is being played.
I love the D'Angelo album "Voodoo" For the first time I could easily tell that Pino Palladino was playing the first cut with his fingers, and the second with a pick. And due to the combination of elements--the Evo has the best localization in 3d that I've heard. (after I eq'd--Sorry!) I can tell that there are three backup singers on the right to middle. I can hear that there are three, and what pitch each is singing!
I have a few rich buddies in town that I can live (or listen ) vicariously through. I've tried the Evo agaist the Odin. I liked the EST treble better. Even with the same eq, there is just a "correctness" to EST treble IMO. But the Evo wastes it in physicality. The bass is good in the Odin--but on recordings I've played on--it "sounds" right, but I feel like I'm listening to me, not that I'm actually playing. A buddy just got the Multiverse. Boy does that sound nice! Again--EST treble. But the implementation of the BCD in the Evo is better than the Multiverse for me. I think that it may be the combination of the DD and BCD as opposed to a BA low end. (the Multiverse is BA, right?)
Another thing---I'm using the Evo as an in-ear monitor for some live gigs. The first time I've had a grin on my face with in-ears.I'm not missing the physicality of the amp next to me. Some buddies of mine were recording at a high-end studio in town that a buddy owns. I asked the guys to try this against the studio cans. Of course it sounded better, but the drummer freaked. "I can feel my bass drum and snare kick" The piano player. sax player and guitarist felt the same--- they were fighting as to who could use them for the rest of the session.
Sorry about being so verbose. I just think that the Evo is so much better than it has been pigeonholed as a "bass head can."I hope to have the opportunity to hear the Odyssey or Raven. They sound like exactly what I've been looking for. (although I doubt I could afford them---even used!!!).But in the interim, I can get completely lost in the music with the Evo.
.
I haven't posted much in the past. I'd just go on Head-Fi every few years when I wanted to upgrade---and get much needed opinions. I've recently retired (from touring) and have a bit more time on my hands.
Let me introduce myself for those who don't know me. My name is Michael Arnopol and I'm a professional jazz bassist and speaker designer. I've played on well over 100 recordings---some that have won Grammy's.I'm known the most by my playing with jazz vocalist Patricia Barber---but i've toured and recorded with many other artists.
I'm just saying this to give a perspective on where I'm coming from. I was introduced to high end headphones back in 2010 when I was asked to be a beta tester for Jerry Harvey's JH 13. I also played at the Chicago Can Jam that year with my trio. About four years ago I got back into headphone listening---with a vengence.Since I have the financial challenges of a working artist, I can only afford one can, and one source at a time.I was fortunate that some of the manufacturers knew my work and were kind enough to make some of the higher end gears a bit more attainable for me. (most of the musicians that make the music you listen to could never afford the gear you use!)
As far as cans, I've owned the LCD I4, the Verite closed, the HE1000se, The Meze Liric, and the EVO. Fortunately I have a few friends in town that have owned almost everything, and I've had the ability to try them.
I wanted to offer a bit different take on the EVO.
I only stream from Qobuz through Audirvana. I use Audirvana because it gives me the ability to use studio grade plugins.Probably the BEST investment I've made is Fabfilter's Pro Eq. It cracks me up when people say "I don't use eq--I want to hear what the artist and engineer intended: Well--you're hearing what the producer intended--oftentimes at odds with the artist and engineer.And---some engineers suck. Even good ones screw up.I often
times disagree with the balance of the low end. And---EVERY headphone I've ever heard benefits from eq. It's impossible to make something perfect. Also---I don't completely agree with the Harmon Curve.I feel that the bass is exaggerated .
I play bass. Acoustic and electric. I want the bass correct. I don't listen for fun. I listen to transcend the gear I'm listening through.And if there is too much midbass (the biggest thing most designers are guilty of--it gives an exegerrated perception of bass) or too much upper bass/lower mids (puts a blanket over everything above it, but gives an exagerrated sense of "warmth") it draws my attention to that---which I don't want. Some of the Patricia Barber recordings have won Gammy's for engineering, and two were on Stereophile's "Cd's to Die For" I only mention this because I know exactly what my upright or electric bass sound like. There is a song--"Ode to Billy Joe" that is just bass and voice. The great Jim Anderson recorded and produced it. I hate listening to anything that I'm on, but with that cut---I can tell exactly what my bass should sound like. Too much lower bass---it sounds like reggae. Too much mid or upper bass--it's not my bass.On the vocals---I know exactly what she sounds like. This cut is still used by many to assess gear. I am varied in my listening--actually I listen to less jazz than other music!
The EVO. Without EQ---at least for me---I can't listen to it. (I don't really like anything without some eq) I bring it down 5db in the low end just to match the Harmon Curve! When properly eq'd---it's amazing. But---Everyone here just discusses various cans with the voicing as the main standard. I couldn't care less about voicing. I'll eq to the voicing that I prefer. (which is obviously not everyon's preference---whatever gets you lost in the music!) I can get any two headphones voiced the same. But they don't SOUND the same! One quality that I like to talk about is the "note envelope". How the note starts, how it develops, and how it decays---for me this is the most important element of bass response. If the attack or decay ain't perfect---the bass is wrong. Many dynamic driver low ends lose in this department. DD drivers can move air and give weight to the low end, but they are not as good at decay. I love planars in this respect----but the DD's can give more note weight. The hangover between notes in DD drivers can obscure the pace of the bass line.
Why I LOVE the EVO. The BEST implementation of the Bone Conduction Driver. It restores the physicality of the music. This is something no frequency response can do. My bass doesn't just sound like my bass---the physical feeling of me playing my bass is like I've never experienced. I have spent my life standing next to drums and pianos---as well as all other instruments. I've heard snare drums sound really great--but until the Evo, I haven't felt the snare like I do standing next to one.On the album by Steeley Dan " Two Against Nature" the snare is recorded pretty aggressively. On some cans---it can take your head off. But with the Evo (there are at least three different drummers on it) not only do I get the physical sense, but I can clearly tell the difference between the various snares. The BCD doesn't just improve the bass---cymbals have just the correct physical "ping", pianos have the right weight of attack. It feels like when I'm standing next to the piano. Because of this accuracy, I can tell you what kind of electric bass is being played.
I love the D'Angelo album "Voodoo" For the first time I could easily tell that Pino Palladino was playing the first cut with his fingers, and the second with a pick. And due to the combination of elements--the Evo has the best localization in 3d that I've heard. (after I eq'd--Sorry!) I can tell that there are three backup singers on the right to middle. I can hear that there are three, and what pitch each is singing!
I have a few rich buddies in town that I can live (or listen ) vicariously through. I've tried the Evo agaist the Odin. I liked the EST treble better. Even with the same eq, there is just a "correctness" to EST treble IMO. But the Evo wastes it in physicality. The bass is good in the Odin--but on recordings I've played on--it "sounds" right, but I feel like I'm listening to me, not that I'm actually playing. A buddy just got the Multiverse. Boy does that sound nice! Again--EST treble. But the implementation of the BCD in the Evo is better than the Multiverse for me. I think that it may be the combination of the DD and BCD as opposed to a BA low end. (the Multiverse is BA, right?)
Another thing---I'm using the Evo as an in-ear monitor for some live gigs. The first time I've had a grin on my face with in-ears.I'm not missing the physicality of the amp next to me. Some buddies of mine were recording at a high-end studio in town that a buddy owns. I asked the guys to try this against the studio cans. Of course it sounded better, but the drummer freaked. "I can feel my bass drum and snare kick" The piano player. sax player and guitarist felt the same--- they were fighting as to who could use them for the rest of the session.
Sorry about being so verbose. I just think that the Evo is so much better than it has been pigeonholed as a "bass head can."I hope to have the opportunity to hear the Odyssey or Raven. They sound like exactly what I've been looking for. (although I doubt I could afford them---even used!!!).But in the interim, I can get completely lost in the music with the Evo.
.
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OneEyedHito
1000+ Head-Fier
That is hilarious! Well played!!!
rinderkappajoe
100+ Head-Fier
Heya
New Evo owner here
Currently in the process of burning it in.
I have never been a disbeliefer nor a full believer of burn in but Evo definitely changed that 100%!!!
I am around 30 hours of playtime and the sound has changed drastically already!
First the bass was very boomy and everything sounded blunted and way too smooth....I mean it also sounded good in a way but just too bloated and overly smooth.
This morning after another night of letting it play it has changed a lot and I bet that everyone in here who is not deaf could EASILY pick up the differences.
That really has nothing to do with believing or not believing in burn in.
The bass is WAY MORE controlled now and staying where it is supposed to be and not overshadowing other parts of the frequency response.
I even thought the bone conduction has somehow failed and is not working anymore because it has changed so much :-D
Treble which was overly smooth and made me missing some sparkle opened up nicely and at the moment i seem to not miss a thing.
Also Evo is very dependant on sources and also switching of cable made siginificant changes to the sound. (FiiO K7 is a great match!)
It is easy to see now why many people write it off early.
I am glad that I got a chance to demo a burned in unit before which is not possible for everyone so my thanks goes out to @TomKorn and Audio Essence! <3
I know all of this has been said before, I just wanted to underline it and put three exclamation marks behind it ! ! !
I am a "believer" now !
But there is also something that I absolutely DON`T LIKE about EVO.......It is hard to photograph with a flash
Happy listening!
New Evo owner here
Currently in the process of burning it in.
I have never been a disbeliefer nor a full believer of burn in but Evo definitely changed that 100%!!!
I am around 30 hours of playtime and the sound has changed drastically already!
First the bass was very boomy and everything sounded blunted and way too smooth....I mean it also sounded good in a way but just too bloated and overly smooth.
This morning after another night of letting it play it has changed a lot and I bet that everyone in here who is not deaf could EASILY pick up the differences.
That really has nothing to do with believing or not believing in burn in.
The bass is WAY MORE controlled now and staying where it is supposed to be and not overshadowing other parts of the frequency response.
I even thought the bone conduction has somehow failed and is not working anymore because it has changed so much :-D
Treble which was overly smooth and made me missing some sparkle opened up nicely and at the moment i seem to not miss a thing.
Also Evo is very dependant on sources and also switching of cable made siginificant changes to the sound. (FiiO K7 is a great match!)
It is easy to see now why many people write it off early.
I am glad that I got a chance to demo a burned in unit before which is not possible for everyone so my thanks goes out to @TomKorn and Audio Essence! <3
I know all of this has been said before, I just wanted to underline it and put three exclamation marks behind it ! ! !
I am a "believer" now !
But there is also something that I absolutely DON`T LIKE about EVO.......It is hard to photograph with a flash
Happy listening!
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I believe after @Deezel177 drawing and this nightmare I will always see both each time I use that IEM.
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I believe that I suggested it at the show, but it would definitely be a nice addition to have a smoked/tinted acrylic like the Odyssey but a bit lighter to show off the internals of the IEM. Be proud of that Weapon IX driver! And visually I think that the Genesis cable pares well so it would be nice to see that kind of cable from PW Audio make an appearance again.I think, apart from that, the Raven’s treble also extends far further than the ODIN, EVO or Odyssey. The added air and headroom casts more of a light on everything else, so those bass notes are etched with cleaner, sharper lines, which is what you’re hearing when you say they’re more discernible.
BTW, ‘kinda random, but I tried to draw the Raven’s internals from memory. They had an earlier prototype of it with a clear shell. It was actually super symmetrical and satisfying.
Yeah, I always think it’s a shame when meticulously-designed internals go unnoticed inside full-black shells. A smoke-colored (or even clear) shell would be cool, even if it meant having the builders pay a bit more attention to wiring and gluing when they’re putting the pieces together.
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Yeah, I always think it’s a shame when meticulously-designed internals go unnoticed inside full-black shells. A smoke-colored (or even clear) shell would be cool, even if it meant having the builders pay a bit more attention to wiring and gluing when they’re putting the pieces together.
Speaking of internals.. what ever happened to that guy who was using the flashlight to look inside IEM’s to build his own?
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