[Stu Paddasso]

Does this mean Raven is not recommended for Canada in the winter?

 

[zoidbb]

Does this mean Raven is not recommended for Canada in the winter?

Don't canadian IEMs hibernate for winter? XD

 

[spwood]

Glad to see I am not the only one who experienced this. This cable might as well be fixed and not removable at this point.

People freak out when their smart phones don't work properly. This really is not acceptable for a $4k IEM, but I do have confidence that EE will address it. As mentioned in other posts, i've had 4 EE TOTL IEM's now and none of them have had any problems. I do keep my IEM and DAP in a tumi pouch, but it's not like I baby them.

if my hypothesis is correct that the IEM is susceptible to cracking after exposure to the cold however, it’s unlikely that they will see failure during canjam

FWIW, my Ravens were not exposed to temperatures less than about 55° F. They had been at room temperature for at least 24 hours before my disaster. I don’t know of any plastics or acrylics that become brittle at those relatively warm temperatures. I highly doubt that’s the problem.

 

[zoidbb]

FWIW, my Ravens were not exposed to temperatures less than about 55° F. They had been at room temperature for at least 24 hours before my disaster. I don’t know of any plastics or acrylics that become brittle at those relatively warm temperatures. I highly doubt that’s the problem.

This isn't about being brittle, this is about the difference in the coefficient of thermal expansion between the stainless steel plate and the acrylic shell. Acrylic (and most other plastics) expand and contract much more per degree of temperature change than steel, so when you mate these materials together you often need to plan for something like an expansion joint to give the plastic room to move without butting up against the steel. If this wasn't done, and it doesn't look to me like it was based on the photos of the IEM, colder temperatures could lead to the acrylic contracting around the stainless steel and causing fractures in the plastic. This in turn would weaken the plastic even at warmer temperatures, and lead to a higher failure rate under stresses like seen when removing the cable.

I'm not sure what the circumstances surrounding the deliver of your IEMs were, but if they were shipped overnight or 2-day via any major US carrier like UPS or FedEx, the IEMs could well have experienced temperatures as low as 40F during transit.

 

[bormak]

I am not alone.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/headfi.org/permalink/10161114369494736/?mibextid=S66gvF

Think twice when you get Empire Ears products.

My Odin and Odyssey both sent back twice for Shell remake.

After I received my Raven my odyssey broke again, I even did not use out of my house and without falling or any crashing.
My odyssey still in Empire Ears for service now

Every time need take near 6 weeks and cost a expensive shell remaking fee plus extra resin and relacque fee

 

[zoidbb]

I am not alone.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/headfi.org/permalink/10161114369494736/?mibextid=S66gvF

Think twice when you get Empire Ears products.

My Odin and Odyssey both sent back twice for Shell remake.

After I received my Raven my odyssey broke again, I even did not use out of my house and without falling or any crashing.
My odyssey still in Empire Ears for service now

Every time need take near 6 weeks and cost a expensive shell remaking fee plus extra resin and relacque fee

This is crazy, my Evos have been to hell and back with zero issues. I wonder what the issue is...

 

[tjzurlaaa]

Really taking the SQ above all else to an extreme there

All hail that extra 10%

I am not alone.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/headfi.org/permalink/10161114369494736/?mibextid=S66gvF

Think twice when you get Empire Ears products.

My Odin and Odyssey both sent back twice for Shell remake.

After I received my Raven my odyssey broke again, I even did not use out of my house and without falling or any crashing.
My odyssey still in Empire Ears for service now

Every time need take near 6 weeks and cost a expensive shell remaking fee plus extra resin and relacque fee

Another 1!? #4??

 

[tjzurlaaa]

,

 

[KuroKitsu]

I am not alone.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/headfi.org/permalink/10161114369494736/?mibextid=S66gvF

Think twice when you get Empire Ears products.

My Odin and Odyssey both sent back twice for Shell remake.

After I received my Raven my odyssey broke again, I even did not use out of my house and without falling or any crashing.
My odyssey still in Empire Ears for service now

Every time need take near 6 weeks and cost a expensive shell remaking fee plus extra resin and relacque fee

You just had to mention Odin eh. Whelp back to regularly scheduled overthinking and anxiety.

Thought my Odin FE never had any issues. about 2 months with the second one and so far so good. But I also don't cable roll.

 

[TomKorn]

@TomKorn I suppose this rules out any possibility of it being an “exception” and is clearly a flaw in manufacturing.

I really hope EE will rectify this in the future Ravens. My LE pre-order was finally cancelled. I will wait for future batches and then may be buy it if it’s safe enough.

I never claimed it to be an exception. I said we need to wait and see how things turned out.
So far all units that we delivered to our customers have been working flawlessly including cable rolling. But maybe our units are the exception?

In any case, if anyone gets a Raven that is somehow not perfect as it should be, they have the right to get a brand new one. EE will pay for all expenses and customers can even send them directly to EE for immediate replacement. So on the side of the customers there is no risk involved.

As EE will now widen the sockets on all units and switching cables before shipping, flawed units should hopefully be detected before they ever reach the customers.

It's very unfortunate that this happened and I am sure EE learned a thing or two along the way. Still all customers are taken care of which is to me the most important thing.

Edit

@nioh. Since I start feeling you believe that I am trying to downplay this matter:

I reached out to every single Raven customer a couple of days ago to inform them of potential issues and how they would be handled to their full satisfaction. I believe in absolute honesty and open communication as it's the only way to earn trust from your customers and provide the best possible customer service.

I am aware that I won't be able to satisfy every single customer but I will sure as hell try.

 

[tjzurlaaa]

I never claimed it to be an exception. I said we need to wait and see how things turned out.
So far all units that we delivered to our customers have been working flawlessly including cable rolling. But maybe our units are the exception?

In any case, if anyone gets a Raven that is somehow not perfect as it should be, they have the right to get a brand new one. EE will pay for all expenses and customers can even send them directly to EE for immediate replacement. So on the side of the customers there is no risk involved.

As EE will now widen the sockets on all units and switching cables before shipping, flawed units should hopefully be detected before they ever reach the customers.

It's very unfortunate that this happened and I am sure EE learned a thing or two along the way. Still all customers are taken care of which is to me the most important thing.

Edit

@nioh. Since I start feeling you believe that I am trying to downplay this matter:

I reached out to every single Raven customer a couple of days ago to inform them of potential issues and how they would be handled to their full satisfaction. I believe in absolute honesty and open communication as it's the only way to earn trust from your customers and provide the best possible customer service.

I am aware that I won't be able to satisfy every single customer but I will sure as hell try.

That’s the spirit, Tom! I’m looking forward to the new improved socket versions will be reporting immediately on the quality of improvement. This should’ve been taken care of before charging 3600$ to customers per unit, but mistakes happen, and it can be part of innovation. Just be careful next time on customers being the guinea pigs with durability but yes your stuff sounds incredible nevertheless, so let’s get these new units asap but quadruple check that durability first

 

[nioh]

@nioh. Since I start feeling you believe that I am trying to downplay this matter:

I never said that but yes I do feel like many of the dealers and reviewers of EE (Rabbit holes and others) have been advertising a bit too much about EE’s service in this forum. If a €4k IEM breaks due to manufacturing defect, of course it has to be replaced/refunded by law. This is called warranty, thank God such a thing exists !

All I’m trying to say to “consumers” who spend so much money on an IEM is to be aware of the issues. It’s not a pleasant dealing to be returning an IEM often for repairs/replacement.

For instance, you are located in the Swiss. We discussed about Raven over emails before the pre-orders started and you almost convinced me to buy one. If I had bought one from you and it broke, sending it back to you for replacement is not easy. I have to do some paperwork for the customs to make sure they don’t charge duties while returning it, international shipping from Germany etc. (which of course you will cover) but isn’t this a hassle ? While you send me a replacement overseas, this is also not so straightforward. Imagine this happening more than once even.

I’m also quite certain that not all 400 units have been sold already because there are plenty available in stock at dealers and there are people still waiting for their pre-ordered launch edition.

 

[subguy812]

And I’m quite a risk taker, and not a prudent one at that… I’ve done plenty of blind buys but this is out of my comfort zone. But if future developments are promising, I will re-consider getting one…

I can understand that, it is same way I feel about a 5K DAP, which I refuse to find cables and IEMs that match my 5K device. I would love to hear it, just not worth the hassle.

Beautiful thing about free markets no one forces us to buy anything It is a relatively large purchase even in today's market.

 

[TomKorn]

I never said that but yes I do feel like many of the dealers and reviewers of EE (Rabbit holes and others) have been advertising a bit too much about EE’s service in this forum. If a €4k IEM breaks due to manufacturing defect, of course it has to be replaced/refunded by law. This is called warranty, thank God such a thing exists !

All I’m trying to say to “consumers” who spend so much money on an IEM is to be aware of the issues. It’s not a pleasant dealing to be returning an IEM often for repairs/replacement.

For instance, you are located in the Swiss. We discussed about Raven over emails before the pre-orders started and you almost convinced me to buy one. If I had bought one from you and it broke, sending it back to you for replacement is not easy. I have to do some paperwork for the customs to make sure they don’t charge duties while returning it, international shipping from Germany etc. (which of course you will cover) but isn’t this a hassle ? While you send me a replacement overseas, this is also not so straightforward. Imagine this happening more than once even.

I’m also quite certain that not all 400 units have been sold already because there are plenty available in stock at dealers and there are people still waiting for their pre-ordered launch edition.

I fully agree that products in this price range need to be perfect. I expect nothing less myself. Unfortunately things like that happen.

Fortunately, people and companies can learn from errors and improve.

I still don't believe in a general design error/issue but rather irregularities in production.

EE will pay for all expenses in case anyone has issues and the units can be sent to them directly without going over your dealer.

 

[CharlyBrown]

My 2c. EE should recall all delivered Ravens and start over with revised/sturdy versions.