[FiiO M17] Dual ES9038PRO, dual THXAAA-788+, dual power supplies, 9200mAh battery, 2 volume control modes
Nov 18, 2021 at 2:04 AM Post #856 of 5,693
Just received it.
It is a brick, like carrying a C9.
I will post more impressions later, but after a quick listening session, is it better than M15? yes. Is it better than my N6ii or LPGT, no.
I don't own the latest M11, so I cannot say.
I will go deeper on that and try the Susvara on it as well.

I wish companies stop using glass for the back of the devices, especially if there is no wireless charging. It gets fingerprints instantly and is quite unappealing.
Would have been original to have a mix of aluminum and rubber for thermal dissipation and grip.
As for the case they offer, it is quite ugly and bulky. Personal opinion, sorry.

More to come!

Thanks for sharing. Definitely keen to hear more of your thoughts between N6ii R01 and M17 once you’ve listened a bit more. If R01 has a better technical performance than M17, then that’s probably going to be an automatic dealbreaker for M17 with me. However with that said, I suspect the R01 will be a hard one to beat for many future daps. The tonality on R01 is stunning!
 
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Nov 18, 2021 at 2:05 AM Post #857 of 5,693
But then, people are complaining about the sizes that is getting too big ? Lol
You don't need to take the big battery pack with you if you are going for a short walk, only if you are going to rock out with hard to drive headphones. The fun factor of having Full Desktop DC power should "outweigh" the burden. :ksc75smile:
Only if with a built-in fan that blows thru the pack to the back of the M17, me thinks. lol.

Think about it. We know heating and cooling is a particularly sensitive issue for the M17. If you cover up the back of the M17, you're covering up a large area of its cooling. Then, if you do that and operate it at the highest power desktop mode, where it comes with a cooling stand for when operated that way, you'd only be exacerbating the heat build-up from loss of cooling. Plus, batteries in operation themselves heat up, so clamping that add'l battery to the back would not only lose the cooling area but would do so by clamping a heating surface to it. Double the lol.
"The battery bank attachment to the M17 could be as an open frame to slide in the M17 that would allow the M17 adequate cooling, then the frame could allow added 20,000mah packs to be added in parallel, or to simply replace the exhausted single 20,000mah base pack on the M17."

An open framework to allow air to pass through for cooling. And, a fan would be possible, but it would add weight and size to the package. Or, you could take the Fan dock with you, and you could power it from the M17/battery pack. The battery pack could unclip from the M17 and sit beside the dock. Plenty of configuration possibilities to get cooling.

I've found the easiest way to never get something made is to convince yourself it cannot be done before you even begin to build it...
It's possible, it's doable, and if anyone else deserves to enjoy it, we do. :beerchug:
Just received it.
It is a brick, like carrying a C9.
I will post more impressions later, but after a quick listening session, is it better than M15? yes. Is it better than my N6ii or LPGT, no.
I don't own the latest M11, so I cannot say.
I will go deeper on that and try the Susvara on it as well.
Congratulations on getting your new M17! :beerchug:

I do look forward to you breaking down into helpful descriptions what you mean by each, "better". :)
 
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Nov 18, 2021 at 3:15 AM Post #858 of 5,693
Anyone in the UK received their M17 yet?
 
Nov 18, 2021 at 3:27 AM Post #859 of 5,693
There is actually QA390LE. It has nothing to do with M17, of course, and nowhere to be found in the west:
https://inf.news/en/digital/630c3c962e73cc63371fc910df1b4e8c.html
I had the qa390le (with 9038pro) and got the original qa390 be modified to qa390mod (still with 4497). Both qa390le and a390mod are better than the original qa390 with noticeable improvements. The sound signatures of them are similar and qa390le has slightly more excitement. I used them with overhead headphones. I chose them as they are more flexible to be used when the living room is fully controlled by my wife and I am unable to reach the desktop type headphone amp. I got the qa390 be modified as I want to know if there would be a big difference in sound signature from the two DACs with similar circuit setup. I am planning to find a used DX300 max ti for its 4499.
 
Nov 18, 2021 at 4:34 AM Post #860 of 5,693
Just received it.
It is a brick, like carrying a C9.
I will post more impressions later, but after a quick listening session, is it better than M15? yes. Is it better than my N6ii or LPGT, no.
I don't own the latest M11, so I cannot say.
I will go deeper on that and try the Susvara on it as well.

I wish companies stop using glass for the back of the devices, especially if there is no wireless charging. It gets fingerprints instantly and is quite unappealing.
Would have been original to have a mix of aluminum and rubber for thermal dissipation and grip.
As for the case they offer, it is quite ugly and bulky. Personal opinion, sorry.

More to come!

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Dang, another DAP outclassed by the R01 again?
 
Nov 18, 2021 at 4:46 AM Post #861 of 5,693
By R01 and LPGT, this is more of the same, even with the risk of being unfair because I never listened to M17, this is to much stories, top grade building, dac, arquitecture and components, but the tuning.... Oooo the tuning... This may be strange to most of you folks but in terms of tuning the original X3 the first one still one of the best tuned daps from Fiio, of course loses in technical department but on the musical department was very good IMO
 
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Nov 18, 2021 at 8:38 AM Post #862 of 5,693
Cause I was curious, I did the Susvara test.
Using the DC power, Enhanced gain mode.

First note: the fan they provided with the stand is a bit loud, I will definitely mod it and use a Noctua fan or something else.
It doesn't get that hot, so you can probably dissipate the heat easily.

I would say it drives the Susvara better than the C9. (to be clear, I consider the C9 cannot run the Susvara to an acceptable level)
It gives a bit of a flat presentation, especially with the bass.
With the A90 or better Amp, you will suddenly feel the Bass all around you with the Susvara, you hear it immediately.
However, it is very decent. Volume has to go quite high, but you have headroom before the max.
I probably listen to more dB than on the desktop setup to get ok bass level.
No distortion, it is not clinical. We get a Neutral tuning.

Being able to go in a different room with the Susvara is pretty cool. I don't feel I loose so much that I want to grab the IEMs.

More to come, but wanted to share as I go through the discovery.
 
Nov 18, 2021 at 10:02 AM Post #863 of 5,693
Cause I was curious, I did the Susvara test.
Using the DC power, Enhanced gain mode.

First note: the fan they provided with the stand is a bit loud, I will definitely mod it and use a Noctua fan or something else.
It doesn't get that hot, so you can probably dissipate the heat easily.

I would say it drives the Susvara better than the C9. (to be clear, I consider the C9 cannot run the Susvara to an acceptable level)
It gives a bit of a flat presentation, especially with the bass.
With the A90 or better Amp, you will suddenly feel the Bass all around you with the Susvara, you hear it immediately.
However, it is very decent. Volume has to go quite high, but you have headroom before the max.
I probably listen to more dB than on the desktop setup to get ok bass level.
No distortion, it is not clinical. We get a Neutral tuning.

Being able to go in a different room with the Susvara is pretty cool. I don't feel I loose so much that I want to grab the IEMs.

More to come, but wanted to share as I go through the discovery.
I am sure driving a HEKse out if any DAP will bring much more acceptable results than the "experimental" Susvara pairing...
 
Nov 18, 2021 at 10:38 PM Post #864 of 5,693
Dream come true! Review sharing by chen_racon2021 (originally posted at: https://weibo.com/ttarticle/p/show?...qmRVGAEc2V_KQe0h8Do0mFN6t-pSIRemjhss7KW6vo8Tk)

Part 4

Use scene sharing
The biggest advantage of the M17 is mobility, which is especially suitable for people who have requirements for sound but cannot sit down and enjoy it quietly. For example, I always travel on business and have to take care of children at home. It is difficult to have time to sit in the study and listen to the desktop system. So a clear modular design ideas of the M17 is appropriate, the M17 heat dissipation and power supply components usually can be taken out, in the traffic jam with LO to listen to the car. At home whether it is the living room or bedroom, you can plug the cable and put it on the heat dissipation base to listen to the HD700. It's still very comfortable, compared to the desktop system from a few kilograms at every turn, the mobility of the M17 is simply great.
In addition to driving headphones, the M17 has several other operating modes and uses. In addition to Android mode when other software can be used, pure music mode can focus on music. USB DAC can support up to Native DSD512, Airplay and Bluetooth receiving mode can receive audio transmitted by mobile phones, coaxial decoding mode can be connected to CD or digital audio streamer for expansion operations. Because of the existence of the bottom RCA standard coaxial port, the M17 completely says goodbye to the coaxial adapter, and the standard interface has a strong practicability for more stable connection.
The M17 has the same single-ended and balanced dual LO as the M11PLUS, with a single-ended output voltage of 1.9V. It has excellent low frequency and detail when used on the car, which is better than the sound source on the car. The balanced LO output voltage is 3.9V, which is basically the balanced output voltage of the standard desktop device. When I connect to amplifier, I can get very large loudness and sound pressure with low gain. The voltage is sound quality. This word is obviously reflected in the M17, and it is not inferior to the K9Pro output in terms of information and clarity. It is worth saying that the blessing of DC power supply,it can greatly improve the output quality of LO, the low frequency is more cohesive and powerful, the high frequency is clearer and cleaner, the background will become more peaceful, and the intermediate frequency has a better sense of hierarchy, which is an all-round improvement.
From headset drive to coaxial output to LO output, from my personal experience, when using wire connection, it can be approximated that the M17 is a digital audio streamer and decoder.
In these usage scenarios, I usually use Bluetooth reception. Because of the newly added Atpx adaptive protocol support, the sound is basically not much different from playback on the device and I am too lazy to use WIFI to transfer songs. Personally, I highly recommend coaxial decoding mode. Under the M17 decoding of the CD player, the sound of the golden crow has a thickness in it, and the background stability has been further improved. It is a mode that worth experiencing, especially recommended for friends with CD players to try it.
For me it is more practical to use the coaxial output when using it as the turntable, after all, some non-album network songs are not suitable for digital broadcasting, coaxial output mechanism is better than USB output. I personally prefer using the M17 coaxial out to decoder, and then use FiiO link remote operation to control. With M17 coaxial output level, it's not inferior to professional digital audio streamer, it is more convenient to use. It's a sound source output device in my desktop system.
M17 is FiiO's first player that exceeds 10,000 yuan. FiiO also provides it with front and rear protective films, leather case, heat dissipation bases and DC switching power supplies as standard, supporting its portable desktop positioning in the form of additional modules. There are few people on the Internet who think that the price should be at least 2,500 euros. I also thought that the price should be more than 13000 yuan. Obviously, FiiO has become more friendly to the people within its ability. Unfortunately, after all, it is a flagship product, a new model and usage scenario, and will definitely not belong to most people.
Although there is a 9200mA battery, but the actual use of battery life is relatively short, using the balanced output is less than 8 hours. Personally, I think it's be suitable for audiopholes who pursues sound quality and disregards its size. After all, this size and battery life are unacceptable to some people. For those who have hesitation about the above two questions, please experience them in person to see if they meet your own needs. After all, what suits you is the best.
But for me, the M17 fits almost all my needs for portable devices: high-quality digital output, high-quality Bluetooth connection, great native playback quality and DC mode that is almost the desktop experience after the external expansion module. I also thought about several other titles when writing this sharing, but I still insist on using the current one, because M17 is a dream coming true for me personally.

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Nov 19, 2021 at 10:44 AM Post #866 of 5,693
Anyone in the UK received their M17 yet?
I pre ordered from Advanced MP3 Players 15 days ago… I sent them an Email a couple of days ago and, They are still waiting to receive tracking information for their shipment. I don’t know what to do as they told me it had been sent by Fiio when I placed the order and they were waiting for tracking info back then. Are they trust worthy?
 
Nov 19, 2021 at 10:53 AM Post #867 of 5,693
I pre ordered from Advanced MP3 Players 15 days ago… I sent them an Email a couple of days ago and, They are still waiting to receive tracking information for their shipment. I don’t know what to do as they told me it had been sent by Fiio when I placed the order and they were waiting for tracking info back then. Are they trust worthy?
I think beginning of the month was a shopping period in China with lots of packages. I had an order from China which normally arrives in two weeks and now it is already three weeks and it didn't arrive at the EU. Looks like one more week to go. I don't think it is because of FiiO or AMP3, it is just the period of the year.
 
Nov 19, 2021 at 12:12 PM Post #868 of 5,693
I pre ordered from Advanced MP3 Players 15 days ago… I sent them an Email a couple of days ago and, They are still waiting to receive tracking information for their shipment. I don’t know what to do as they told me it had been sent by Fiio when I placed the order and they were waiting for tracking info back then. Are they trust worthy?
Hi, AdvancedMP3Players is a very trusted retailer. I've been dealing with them now for over two years and all has been good. It should arrive soon. ETA.... my guess.... first or second week in December.
 
Nov 19, 2021 at 1:04 PM Post #869 of 5,693
Hi, AdvancedMP3Players is a very trusted retailer. I've been dealing with them now for over two years and all has been good. It should arrive soon. ETA.... my guess.... first or second week in December.
Thank you, that’s a relief. So long as I het it before Xmas, I don’t mind waiting.
 
Nov 21, 2021 at 11:38 AM Post #870 of 5,693
i have the m17 since nearly two weeks and want to share some impressions. this year i was less active buying new gear, mainly because i’m very satisfied with the gear i own.

main reason for buy this dap was the beefy output stage and my preference for ess dacs beside that i like r2r dacs often a bit more. overall, i think that the last 2-3 years the difference of the totl dacs chips are not as big as before. the sony dmp-z1 that i own is a good example that the implementation of the entire system is the key for a great sounding device more than the chips in it.

the m17 is for me is an addition to the idea of the dmp-z1, a portable dap that can drive most headphones or iem i own. i soon realized that the sony was not the dap that i use in my holidays in a hotel, it’s too expensive to let it rest in the hotel room, it’s to shiny. so, i used a wm-1z together with a smd dynalo for traveling the last years.

now comes the m17 and it will replace this travel setup. the dual es9038pro dacs inside are technical excellent, remarkably high resolution, the sound is not over processed (but less raw/direct sounding as good r2r dacs), not as warm as the older ess totl chips but a tad on the warmer side (between neutral-warm leaning to the neutral side). most of the shelf dac imo have the tendency to be over processed, this gets a lot better with the new generation of dac chips lately but is often the main difference to a fpga (chord), r2r or similar (dcs) solution. It’s great to hear that this has changed.

for the older generation here 😉, the denafrips terminator was one of the first dac i owned that sounded similar/like the revox reel to reel tape recorder we had at home and that i used many years. even if the m17 is not on that level the sound flows natural without sounding to artificial, has an enjoyable character. gear that i own/ed that jumps over this cliff denafrips terminator/yggdrasil/wm-z1/qutest/hugo2/cayin n6ii r1. the focus here it not the technical performance but natural sounding.

the amp side of m17 was a surprise for me. having build a lot of class a amps for loudspeakers and headphones this thx chips solution reminds me a lot of the only non-class a amp i use, a purifi 1et400a class d amp in rotation with a pass sony v-fet and pass f6 for my loudspeakers. These thx aaa-788x modules sound extreme linear, great speedy bass control without overpowering, neutral mids and extended highs. Being linear in the highs bad recordings can sound a tad too hot, for my preference but perfect for well recorded music. the amp of dmp-z1 for comparison shares more similarities with the pass f6, a pass tuned class a amp with some warm overtones but also technical linear and not too tube sounding (as the f5 or v-vet).

the power output is high enough to drive most headphones, only the susvara shows the limit. was no surprise for me, the ony two amps i own that shows what the susvara can delivery is the susy dynahi or the inpol pathos, even the single ended cfa2 delivers not that kind of control that is needed.

i use most of the time headphone modus, the jump to the extended headphone modus is not big (similar effect driving a amp with higher rails, impression of more speed and push). also, even the impression is quite fresh i think the switching power supply ads a bit of uneasiness to the sound. but can’t evaluate that in the moment, no regulated 12v psu around.

the m17 has no problem driving the abyss diana phi, even a bit more control then the dmp-z1 on battery, driving the sony with a regulated psu the control over the headphone is similar, then the difference is more the linear thx amps vs the sony that has an easier presentation. the paring with the diana is particularly good, the character is more in the direction of a reference system (but not brut) then the audiophile dream team like the pairing with the dmp-z1.

when you use the verite open with the m17 due the character of the zmf it has more of this dmp-z1/diana phi character that i like very much. even so these two headphones are a superb pairing, depends on you taste or changing needs. sound wise in the middle of the two are the focal stellia, the small bass boost makes this pairing more fun orientated.

the focal utopia was one headphone that i sold after a while. a sad thing because it was the most neutral/linear dynamic headphone i owned. pairing the m17 would not be my thing, the sound would be a reference monitor system, more for analyze the soundtrack then letting the music enjoy your life. imo a very neutral headphone or even bright headphone would not be my dream team with this dap.

so is the m17 a dmp-z1 killer? no it’s not and that’s no shame for a quarter of the price. resolution of the two players is very similar. a weaker point of the m17 is his soundstage, the soundstage has a good width, for me a tiny bit to small (snotty 😊) but the deep oft the stage is limited, the same with the high of the soundstage. that is nothing you miss when you listen only to this player but its noticeable when cycle true different set ups. It is a bit the same when you sit in the first raw at the opera (which i most often do because i want to see the orchestra), you have a wide, bit curved soundstage but less deep and high information. but you need to be realistic, the gear i own/ed that have this perfect 3d stage is always expensive, imo chord with their fpga tec delivers these parameters excellent for the price. the dmp-z1 is here the only one in all device i know that delivers here the full package.

a minor weakness is the player part, like network streamers (auralic, aurender etc) some delivers a smoother flow of the music than others. the sony dmp-z1 is outstanding because playing from the sd card it’s a dream, the music flows easy like a river, switching to the usb and the river as more ripples. It’s really hard and often expensive finding a network streamer that has this quality like the sony. the m17 has some ripples but a lot better than most under 500usd streamers, similar to the cayin n6ii if not a bit better. in future i like to test the dac input, could be the nail to bring it to top level data feeding.

if you look for a dap that drives most your headphones the m17 is for the price very good, the few weak points are nothing that bother you when you listen to your music. For the price it’s a very solid offer. no dap for commuting but perfect for weekend trip or holidays, in the office.

brief note to the heat, player is hot (under 50c) but during burn in it shuts down only once, so you can’t do anything wrong. player need a good time to burn in, sounds a bit bright first, it’s one of the players that change are bigger vs first liste. mine has now over 100h,

player is well build, good screen (not excellent), a lot for the money, stand is…. a stand and no docking station, a bit strange. power consumption playing redbook on low 4watt, on headphone 12watt). fast gui, ubs audio player pro works fine, tidal also, roon only 48khz android std. only tested obravo ra c and it is a fine match.
 

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