[VashCZ]

Hello.

Since like 12 I listen to music quite often. Used to be 2 or 3 hours a day, now it is only one hour a day, but amybe more I do not measure :-D.
Since the end of puberty I am quite picky.
Lately my favourite bands are http://bandzone.cz/pawnshop and http://bandzone.cz/theswitch and http://bandzone.cz/kurtizanyz25avenue (last three songs are most representative) aaaand closest to overal mainstream can be this band .

I started at something similar to this Sony(maybe it is the same) http://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/large/1092047-sony-cmtcp1-mini-hifi-component-system.jpg
Later i got Koss Porta Pro.
Several years ago I finished school, started to work and bought Solo 7c http://microlab.com/en/catalog/stereosystem/mains-connection/wired/solo-7cnew/ . Unfortunately even without sound source it has little beee sound at some specific volume levels, but still very good sound. Many people say it has good bass. I know it is absent of low bass 60HZ and below(audible to 40HZ).
Recently this Christmas I got Grado Sr80e and here is when I need your advice.

I got new Grado Sr80e. Sound leak - to fit my job usage. Good reviews, saying not overbassed.
What I hear? Higher bass is missing its pitch and lower bass seems bit better, but missing sound below 40HZ even though manufacturer says 20HZ. Voices sounds very close pain my ears together with some higher tone percussions. I listen to CD rip flac coded.
Btw left phone sounds louder. I am naturally right handed, but blinking my right eye instead of left one and my brain is reversed just like left handed people have. I read about higher volume in left channels.

I never liked headphones I use them only because I have to(as speakers weight tens kgs and my surroundings may not like music I like ). When I used cheap earphones my ears were hurting and only Koss Porta pro were quite good... I just could not listen over 2 hours. Any speakers could not pain me so much. So I said good, open speakers leak the pressure in ears out, so I wanted open ones - Sr80e. Again, pain my hearing - why. After I put down phones I feel pain. Anytime I set speakers loud(at least I think it is louder than headphones - how I hear it) my ears are okay.

I tried them with iPod nano http://media.engadget.com/img/product/26/k8d/ipod-nano-6th-gen-2apq-800.jpg which has weak amplifier but also with my Titanium HD https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Blaster-Titanium-Internal-SB1270/dp/B0041OUA38 .
I was trying to set them up with 30 step equalizer. No help, sounded muddy.

Is it possible, that I have bad ears somehow and can not bear any headphones because of pressure or echo or something?
Am I just lacking bass and so these headphones seems like trash to me? (see my bands and speakers higher)
Is it possible that my headphones are broken?

I hope this forum is good place to ask as my surroundings are not much audiophile.
Thank you for reading and posting your experience.
VashCZ

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I got new Grado Sr80e. Sound leak - to fit my job usage. Good reviews, saying not overbassed.
What I hear? Higher bass is missing its pitch and lower bass seems bit better, but missing sound below 40HZ even though manufacturer says 20HZ.

When response is given especially on headphones they'll quote the absolute response. Sure a headphone can produce 20hz, but if you look at the graph it could be -10dB to -20dB weaker than 1000hz.

Voices sounds very close pain my ears together with some higher tone percussions. I listen to CD rip flac coded.

That has a lot less to do with the recording and a lot more with how Grados are smack right on top of the ear canals. If you look at speaker systems they're in front at an angle, not sitting right by and firing directly at your ears. Basically it's about as unnatural as it can get.

Btw left phone sounds louder. I am naturally right handed, but blinking my right eye instead of left one and my brain is reversed just like left handed people have. I read about higher volume in left channels.

If it isn't constantly louder on one side I wouldn't worry about one driver not functioning properly.

When I used cheap earphones my ears were hurting and only Koss Porta pro were quite good... I just could not listen over 2 hours. Any speakers could not pain me so much.

That has to do with how loud you're listening on top of the tendency of some headphones ot induce fatigue just by firing directly into the ear canals, something speakers aren't doing unless you deliberately mount them wrong.

So I said good, open speakers leak the pressure in ears out, so I wanted open ones - Sr80e.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here but if you mean "pressure can escape through open headphones," that doesn't mean you still can't send too loud soundwaves busting in there first before dispersing back out. That's like thinking getting hit with the tank hatch open will guarantee you'll survive, when in reality even the shockwaves of a direct hit will still have enough force to blow your eardrums if not give you a concussion (not to mention molten shrapnel on current munitions gutting you anyway).

Again, pain my hearing - why. After I put down phones I feel pain. Anytime I set speakers loud(at least I think it is louder than headphones - how I hear it) my ears are okay.

Grados have peaks in the midrange and treble, they fire directly into the ear canals, and because the open back allows sound to move both ways, the level of ambient noise that gets through is making you crank it up more to get above it, so you're listening a lot louder than you think you are.

You can EQ the midrange and treble peaks, and you can wear the SR80 slightly forward of your head. But you can't do anything about the ambient noise.

I tried them with iPod nano http://media.engadget.com/img/product/26/k8d/ipod-nano-6th-gen-2apq-800.jpg which has weak amplifier but also with my Titanium HD https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Blaster-Titanium-Internal-SB1270/dp/B0041OUA38 .
I was trying to set them up with 30 step equalizer. No help, sounded muddy.

What EQ adjustments were you doing exactly? Cut at 100hz to 150hz by around -1dB to -3dB to reduce muddiness, then for fatigue cut at 2000hz by -3dB, 3000hz by -2dB, 3800hz by -6dB, 8500hz by -10dB.

Also the Titanium HD has around 30ohms of output impedance. Grados are 32ohms. That results in lower damping factor, that could be why it's muddy as it can't control the driver movements as well as an amp with low output impedance and higher damping factor.

Is it possible, that I have bad ears somehow and can not bear any headphones because of pressure or echo or something?

Do you hear any echo?

A lot of that has to do with the direct fire into the ear canals. Push them forward and then apply the EQ adjustments I posted.

Am I just lacking bass and so these headphones seems like trash to me? (see my bands and speakers higher)
Is it possible that my headphones are broken?

Could be high output impedance on your iPod and Titanium HD. Plus you're listening too loudly to compensate for ambient noise. Grados might not have very deep bass but they have enough response coupled with high sensitivity to emphasize the beat. But if whatever you have them plugged into are still screwing up then instead of being able to compensate for that they'll make it worse.

 

[VashCZ]

@ProtegeManiac
Thank you for your long answer.

When response is given especially on headphones they'll quote the absolute response. Sure a headphone can produce 20hz, but if you look at the graph it could be -10dB to -20dB weaker than 1000hz.

Allright. I just thought that serious companies show real audible response.

If it isn't constantly louder on one side I wouldn't worry about one driver not functioning properly.

No. I do not think so.

Grados have peaks in the midrange and treble, they fire directly into the ear canals, and because the open back allows sound to move both ways, the level of ambient noise that gets through is making you crank it up more to get above it, so you're listening a lot louder than you think you are.

Well.I never realized that actual speakers in these phones are so big that I can work with it.
But the other part of what you say is what I do not get. There is difference for me in these two things:
quiet room with low volume music
kitchen with mixer machine with ppropriate high volume music
It is not only about background noise. Yes I understand when my ears are rested I can hear/understand lower volumes better because they are not "calibrated" for higher volumes.
But also, never realised, maybe it is only about music from speakers(also on concerts) that my body feels that make me more comfortable. And that is absent on headphones of course.
And maybe I just am not able to pick up all the details when listening with headphones on (to me)lower volumes.

What EQ adjustments were you doing exactly? Cut at 100hz to 150hz by around -1dB to -3dB to reduce muddiness, then for fatigue cut at 2000hz by -3dB, 3000hz by -2dB, 3800hz by -6dB, 8500hz by -10dB.

Also the Titanium HD has around 30ohms of output impedance. Grados are 32ohms. That results in lower damping factor, that could be why it's muddy as it can't control the driver movements as well as an amp with low output impedance and higher damping factor.

Here is what I got with simple equalizer and third picture is what you told me. First two are my !independent tries! Biggest difference is that 8500MHZ you told me... can not hear much difference yet... and maybe I am wrong there. Definitely going to try again soon.
https://vashcz.rajce.idnes.cz/Grado_SR80e/#gradosettings1.jpg
https://vashcz.rajce.idnes.cz/Grado_SR80e/#gradosettings2.jpg
https://vashcz.rajce.idnes.cz/Grado_SR80e/#gradosettings3.jpg

From these two sources I understand, that front panel channel is truly only 30Ohm, but back jack hole has 300Ohms.
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/10/25/sound_blaster_xfi_titanium_hd_card_review/2
https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/sound-blaster-x-fi-titanium-hd-review,4.html
I set default lowest quality in windows settings(CD quality, which is actually what I listen to).
Now... is my settings right? Damn getting difficult here.

Do you hear any echo?

A lot of that has to do with the direct fire into the ear canals. Push them forward and then apply the EQ adjustments I posted.

No I do not.

It does work! Sound is much better! More bass less obnoxious voice. I just think headphones are a bit out of positions. Foam at the backside is ending where my ears ending... and so in front it is a bit... on face :-D. I wonder if with this system can hold on my head when moving and panning.


Headphones pushed front is actually very good advice. Is it the way they should be worn?
I listened music at lower volumes(10%-20% instead of 15%-25%) and it may relieved my ears. Also with pushing phones forward.
Now my biggest problem can be how to wear headphones not to loose them when bent and absence of equalizer in player I ordered some weeks ago https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...adphone-Amplifier-DAC-AK4490/32820188325.html .

Also I must find the answer of why I feel my headphones are low volume even though you say ears pains because it is actually higher volume

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Allright. I just thought that serious companies show real audible response.

Speakers have the range specs stated that the ends are -3dB points. Headphones don't have that. Either way neither provides a graph since some variables are involved - room modes on speakers and fit on headphones.

But the other part of what you say is what I do not get. There is difference for me in these two things:
quiet room with low volume music
kitchen with mixer machine with ppropriate high volume music
It is not only about background noise. Yes I understand when my ears are rested I can hear/understand lower volumes better because they are not "calibrated" for higher volumes.

Even if you can't hear anything noisy ambient noise can be as high as 40dB. Or even higher despite not having a distinct noise source such as a kitchen mixer. My room until around 9pm or so still registers 38dB from various noise sources outside and if I close the window and kill my fan I'll just trade those for A/C. Even you don't have A/C or a heater you can still have significantly high ambient noise where you are.

If you're using them at work even people walking around or typing can add to ambient noise. Your computer has a Titanium HD - if the cooling in it isn't a custom water loop or low speed fans in a Fractal Define case with a custom loop (that still has the top closed) or BeQuiet! coolers and a BeQuiet! PSU or Corsair semi-fanless PSU for example you're adding enough ambient noise even if you don't notice it.

But also, never realised, maybe it is only about music from speakers(also on concerts) that my body feels that make me more comfortable. And that is absent on headphones of course.

I'm not sure I'd use the word "comfortable." More like you're more familiar with speakers hitting your whole body with soundwaves.

And maybe I just am not able to pick up all the details when listening with headphones on (to me)lower volumes.

You can hear more details when playing louder, but ambient noise determines how much louder you need to go to get the same effect. If you're in a very quiet, acoustically isolated room, while you can ennjoy cranking it up, you wouldn't need to crank it up as much as you would in any other room. And more so with Grados and many other open headphones where isolation is just non-existent.

Add to that having the bass lose focus once they soundwaves leave the driver since the earpads don't go around your ears, and the earpads themselves are very porous.

Here is what I got with simple equalizer and third picture is what you told me. First two are my !independent tries! Biggest difference is that 8500MHZ you told me... can not hear much difference yet... and maybe I am wrong there. Definitely going to try again soon.
https://vashcz.rajce.idnes.cz/Grado_SR80e/#gradosettings1.jpg
https://vashcz.rajce.idnes.cz/Grado_SR80e/#gradosettings2.jpg
https://vashcz.rajce.idnes.cz/Grado_SR80e/#gradosettings3.jpg

One reason why it was muddy was you boosted where the SR80 already had a boost. Use the third one, maybe boost at 20hz and 50hz on that one by about +3dB and +2dB respectively just to bring the lower frequencies up a little. Avoid doing more than that as it can add a lot more driver distortion on those headphones.

From these two sources I understand, that front panel channel is truly only 30Ohm, but back jack hole has 300Ohms.
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/10/25/sound_blaster_xfi_titanium_hd_card_review/2
https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/sound-blaster-x-fi-titanium-hd-review,4.html

No, 300ohms is not output impedance. I can't see in those reviews if they actually measured it. Closest thing to that is that one claimed it had no problems with voltage delivery into a 330ohm load. That 300ohms on the spec sheet is Creative claiming it "can drive 300ohm headphones" (sic), which isn't even a very telling statement as when soundcards say something like that (usually when they say 600ohms) it's more akin to if Toyota told you that its 2.4L naturally aspirated gasoline engine can move the Tacoma pick up truck, but doesn't tell you that pulling a trailer with that engine and truck combo would be a laughably painful chore compared to doing it with a V6 turbodiesel.

I set default lowest quality in windows settings(CD quality, which is actually what I listen to).
Now... is my settings right? Damn getting difficult here.

As far as that setting is concerned, yes.

No I do not.

Then echoes aren't a problem.

It does work! Sound is much better! More bass less obnoxious voice. I just think headphones are a bit out of positions. Foam at the backside is ending where my ears ending... and so in front it is a bit... on face :-D. I wonder if with this system can hold on my head when moving and panning.

Just how far forward did you wear them? I meant something like this. Red circle is how people wear them by default, move them forward and maybe slightly lower as per blue circle. Note the circles very roughly coincide with driver size so earpads will be a little bit wider.

Headphones pushed front is actually very good advice. Is it the way they should be worn?

Generally. It depends on each headphoone. If you have the K701 for example it comes with angled circumaural earpads so all you have to do is move them forward so the rear half of the earpads are against your earlobes, if not pushing them slightly forward. That's how I wear my HD600.

The idea is to mimic speaker positions relative to the ears. Red bar fires directly into ear canal, orange bar is positioned forward, blue bar at an angle is headphones with angled pads or driver mounts.

Now my biggest problem can be how to wear headphones not to loose them when bent...

Bent? What did you bend? If anything you have to bend them now to help with the clamp and maybe keep them secure. Bend the top center outwards then bend inwards near the gimbals. Top will be flatter, clamp force might be weaker, but they'll stay on better.

....and absence of equalizer in player I ordered some weeks ago https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...adphone-Amplifier-DAC-AK4490/32820188325.html

Might as well sell that and use an Android phone running an EQ app plus a DAC-HPamp that works with it.

Also I must find the answer of why I feel my headphones are low volume even though you say ears pains because it is actually higher volume

You're cranking it up so you can hear 40hz playing at 80dB. By that point 8500hz is playing roughly 90dB++.

 

[VashCZ]

Hey, I m letting know 2 years after to tell you
Thank you for advices.

I have tried several times to listen to these SR80e.
No happy ending, I didn´t got used to them. I actually stopped listening headphones :-D.
Now I got even higher and have Focal Aria 926 speakers with Musical Fidelity M3i amplifier both for very good price. Am happy now.
Just the space it requies to sound well :-D.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I have tried several times to listen to these SR80e.
No happy ending, I didn´t got used to them. I actually stopped listening headphones :-D.
Now I got even higher and have Focal Aria 926 speakers with Musical Fidelity M3i amplifier both for very good price. Am happy now.
Just the space it requies to sound well :-D.

One reason why I gave up on my Pacific Pi10 (which ironically I managed to use in a flat that served as my college dorm, but was an all-concrete 10storey building) is the acoustics when I moved back into the old house. The way I can set it up in my room I'll either have a slanted wood ceiling on one side or have the slanted ceiling behind both speakers but then one speaker is against the concrete exterior wall and the other speaker is next to the wood interior wall, and those walls have different acoustic properties that pushed the soundstage forward on the concrete side.