[buke9]

I was thinking of getting a pair of dynamic headphones as I only have planar. Amazon has a great price on a pair of HD-700's for $449 and HD-650's for $499 with $200 gift card. I'm leaning towards the 700's as I have heard both and liked the 700 more. I know that things can change with an amp. I don't have money for the HD-800's just looking to try something different. I have Ether-C, Alpha Dog, HE-400 and HE-400S . I'm not looking to replace the Ether-C's just wanting to make sure I'm not missing something going planar only. I'm only giving myself $800 for phones and another amp if needed. I was thinking about getting a Bottlehead Crack or Project Ember. I was told on the 700 thread that the 650 would go better with the Crack and the 700 would do better with the Ember. I was thinking of the 700's but the 650's with $200 for music is getting me thinking. I really would like to build a Crack but it is not a deal killer. I have a Teac UD-301 Dac ,EF-2A and Liquid Carbon for amps and a QP1R  dap(which is awesome). Still don't if I should buy new cans or save up for a new Dac as a Gumby. I know it's my choice just wanting to try something different am I wrong?

 

[Music Alchemist]

Well, your own preference is what matters in the end. I like the HD 650 more than the HD 700 (and even HD 800, to be honest) overall because I feel it has less problems despite its flaws. You may also want to consider the used market. I got an HD 650 for barely over $200! And you can also do trades (or trades plus cash, which is how I got an HD 700) to make things even easier.

 

[buke9]

  Well, your own preference is what matters in the end. I like the HD 650 more than the HD 700 (and even HD 800, to be honest) overall because I feel it has less problems despite its flaws. You may also want to consider the used market. I got an HD 650 for barely over $200! And you can also do trades (or trades plus cash, which is how I got an HD 700) to make things even easier.

I know it's up to me. I don't buying used just like buying from Amazon as I can return them. What are you listen them thru that you prefer the 650 over the 700? Not trying to be judgmental just wondering. I know all things in audio is subjective just have to learn from trying new things.

 

[SeaWo|f]

   Given that you have a bunch of headphones and obviously have some idea, if not a pretty damn good idea of how you like things to sound. I would go with the hd700 since you heard it and liked it more. I have a 2009 hd650 which I really like, but my understanding is that sennheiser has silently updated the hd650 over the years into a very different sounding headphone. I would take this into account when talking to people and demoing the hd650 when it was made is big. Honestly I have not heard the hd700 or the Crack, but from what I have read about the sound signature of them both I would have thought the Crack might help smooth out the hd700. The Crack can be rolled and there is a lot of info on the results of various tubes on it, so I think with the help of those on the Crack thread you could tune the setup for your self. I can't wait until I have time to build one myself.
   Keep in mind too that an amp can help tune the sound from a headphone but will never change the character of the headphone, so if on a fundamental level you don't like the hd650 you probably will never no matter how its driven.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I know it's up to me. I don't buying used just like buying from Amazon as I can return them. What are you listen them thru that you prefer the 650 over the 700? Not trying to be judgmental just wondering. I know all things in audio is subjective just have to learn from trying new things.

 
You'll find many people who prefer the HD 650 over the HD 700. (Oh, and I owned the newer version.) I used a Schiit Fulla with those two and heard the HD 800 on a Simaudio MOON Neo 430HA and Sennheiser HDVD 800. (Both of which unsurprisingly sounded the same despite the huge difference in price.) Contrary to what you may have heard, none of these headphones are difficult to drive.
 

Spoiler: power requirements

HD 650
 
HD 700
 
HD 800


Even accounting for dynamic peaks in the music, you'll probably never need more than 110 dB, so realistically, these headphones are very easy to drive.

It's not amps causing the major differences in sound between the two headphones; it's the headphones, simple as that. Much of the time, when people talk about a higher-end amp making a headphone "scale", what they are really referring to is the amp coloring the sound, which has nothing to do with output power and actually driving the headphone. In many cases, it's not the output power that is causing this difference in sound. A free parametric equalizer can do far more to change the sound of a headphone than any amp or DAC.

For further reading:
http://www.apexhifi.com/specs.html
http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=1285
http://www.head-fi.org/t/724199/hd800-being-picky-with-amps-myth/15#post_10660374

 

[buke9]

     Given that you have a bunch of headphones and obviously have some idea, if not a pretty damn good idea of how you like things to sound. I would go with the hd700 since you heard it and liked it more. I have a 2009 hd650 which I really like, but my understanding is that sennheiser has silently updated the hd650 over the years into a very different sounding headphone. I would take this into account when talking to people and demoing the hd650 when it was made is big. Honestly I have not heard the hd700 or the Crack, but from what I have read about the sound signature of them both I would have thought the Crack might help smooth out the hd700. The Crack can be rolled and there is a lot of info on the results of various tubes on it, so I think with the help of those on the Crack thread you could tune the setup for your self. I can't wait until I have time to build one myself.
   Keep in mind too that an amp can help tune the sound from a headphone but will never change the character of the headphone, so if on a fundamental level you don't like the hd650 you probably will never no matter how its driven.

That may be true on how it is driven ie 650. I didn't have a lot of time with it.

   
You'll find many people who prefer the HD 650 over the HD 700. (Oh, and I owned the newer version.) I used a Schiit Fulla with those two and heard the HD 800 on a Simaudio MOON Neo 430HA and Sennheiser HDVD 800. (Both of which unsurprisingly sounded the same despite the huge difference in price.) Contrary to what you may have heard, none of these headphones are difficult to drive.
 

Spoiler: power requirements

Even accounting for dynamic peaks in the music, you'll probably never need more than 110 dB, so realistically, these headphones are very easy to drive.

It's not amps causing the major differences in sound between the two headphones; it's the headphones, simple as that. Much of the time, when people talk about a higher-end amp making a headphone "scale", what they are really referring to is the amp coloring the sound, which has nothing to do with output power and actually driving the headphone. In many cases, it's not the output power that is causing this difference in sound. A free parametric equalizer can do far more to change the sound of a headphone than any amp or DAC.

For further reading:
http://www.apexhifi.com/specs.html
http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=1285
http://www.head-fi.org/t/724199/hd800-being-picky-with-amps-myth/15#post_10660374

I think there is a dance between headphones and amps. Someone I trust says that the Ether-C's is plain awful with the Crack.Makes sense for a OTL amp and low impedance phones.I have no experience with the 650 or 700 so I don't know on how hard they are to drive. They say the HE-400S plays from an iPhone it does but not that great. I know there is this love for the 650's also. I know that sound is different for every head.  

 

[SeaWo|f]

Part of the problems with olt amps and low impedance headphones is by their nature you cannot get low gain which means even if you have a really low noise otl amp you probably still have hum. Also many amps don't sound great at the extremes of their volume settings and that is where you can end up with when you combine low impedance headphones and otl. Also i agree that senns from a power stand point are not hard to drive, but matching the characteristic of the amp to headphone is important because the undesirable parts of the sound signature can get exaggerated.