[DragonSounds]

Hello everyone, I hope you are doing well today.

Hopefully this isn't too long of a message, but I want to explain my situation and what I've learned thus far. I hope this is the correct place/forum to post this question as this site seems to be mainly a Headphone forum (I see there is a Computer Audio section here though).

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As the title says I am looking to purchase and build a nice 5.1 setup (I could start smaller if needed).

I am new to high/higher end audio gear, but I have been using 5.1 Audio speakers, with my computer since at least 2006/2007. I initially had an older Logitech Z2200E or something like that, and I most recently had a Logitech Z906, both connected to my old Creative Sound Blaster X-fi Elite Pro Sound Card.

My current issue now is that the Z906 has been having issues with the console powering on once powered off (or power outage) and I recently had a power outage and the console no longer turns on, hence why I decided to get a new unit as I cannot do anything to get it to work now. Upon doing a little research, people were saying that it just doesn't make sense to pay the outrageous prices that companies such as Logitech or Corsair charge for their units, and many claimed these speakers and such were of low quality anyways for the price we are spending.

These same posts were discussing what others do, using higher end speakers with a surround sound receiver to get what they desire, while using their Computer. This lead me to reading about Amplifiers/Receivers and different speakers, but I really am not sure what is good or bad and what is recommended, or what would fit my needs.


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What I would like.


I am hoping to purchase speakers and create a 5.1 setup.

I was hoping to connect these speakers to my Sound Blaster, but the Sound Card uses the 3 3.5mm aux cables(Green, Orange, Black), which I've read are very outdated technology, and I read it's hard to find a receiver that will use this tech.

The Sound Card DOES have a TOSLINK connector, but when I had tried it in the past(as i heard it was better), it seemed to not work properly, and I believe I had read it only works in 2.1, not 5.1.

I know the sound card made my audio sound better compared to the Motherboard audio on my current computer, but if I'm purchasing an Amp for the speakers (which is what seems to be built into the sound card), does it even make sense to connect the Amp/Receiver to the sound card? Will the Sound Card actually help me with anything more than the Amp/Receiver...?

I did read that I can connect up the audio using HDMI, and that seems to be what is preferred these days, but will that give me the same experience compared to the Sound Card?

The Sound Card has software settings for Surround Sound, so I wonder if I will be able to get that same experience with the amp/receiver and the speakers?


I mainly use my speakers for Music. I do not really watch movies, but I do watch YT videos where many are in nature, so having those nature sounds are nice in a surround sound environment.

Since music, from what I read, seems to be mainly recorded in Stereo, I would assume the Sound Card's software is doing stuff to enhance the experience into Surround Sound?

I am curious what others think about this situation? I really love my sound card, and it's been with me since 2007. If I have to not use it, I do not mind, but I really want that 3D Surround Sound Immersion with my music, so I'm not sure if I can get that with just a regular Receiver, without any additional Software inputs.

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Budget:

I was hoping to spend maybe around $1,000, but I think my best bet is maybe to start small and work my way up? i.e., purchase 2 speakers, then get more as more funds are available? Yes, my main goal is 5.1 (or even more) surround sound, but I rather invest is higher quality speakers and spend a few months purchasing everything, than to fit my needs in one go and purchase something of lower quality.

I will say, I do have an old Amp/Receiver that was purchased probably in 2005 that was used for my family's home theater system, which isn't used anymore. I believe it's some Sony device(I will try to get more info and post an update). It's a very large receiver with a ton of ports on the back (far more than i see in many of the basic/cheaper models these days). It makes me wonder if I could/should use that with the new speakers? How much better have amps/receivers gotten over the years? Would it make sense to just buy a newer receiver/amp, or maybe use the old receiver for now and then purchase one later when I need it? I'm curious what others think about this situation. I figure it's best to use the old one and then invest in better speakers for now, but I'm not sure if Amp/Receiver tech has advanced a ton in the last 20 years, or if this older one will work great as well. I do know it hooked up a 5.1 system in the past, so I should be able to do what I currently want with it.

EDIT: I took a look and I have a SONY STR-K7000 It seems to be a more basic unit, and I heard that HDMI Audio Out doesn't work apparently, something about earlier HDMI versions not doing audio out or something like that.

It seems like I probably should invest in a more modern Receiver.... But Maybe not? It seems the TOSLINK would work, but I'm not sure if my Mobo has one of those. :ENDEDIT

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What Companies to Purchase from?

I am very clueless about what companies are good or bad, but with my limited research many people were recommending Wharfedale Diamond speakers. This seems like a very nice and very high end company, and I wouldn't mind getting a setup from them. I figured If I would go with them, maybe I would just invest in the bookshelf speaker set of 2, and then add to it from there, hence my comments above about that. I do see they are sold out on the site for many of the options, but maybe there is another REPUTABLE site that is recommended to purchase their items (That isn't Amazon).

I did see a couple of posts asking about computer audio on here, and I saw other recommendations, but didn't see Wharfedale mentioned (maybe cost was the issue), so I'm curious about people's thoughts on them?

As for Receivers, many mentioned SONY and Yamaha as reputable brands, but I also heard about "Denon Receivers?" I'm not sure if people have a recommendation for brands, or certain receivers that might be useful (If the old one shouldn't be used). I also heard people recommend "Schiit" on another forum, which I know is a very highly rated brand that has a lot of connections to this website, but from what i saw of their offerings, they seem to only do Stereo(some seem to do mono only and you have to connect 1 amp to each speaker), or am I missing something? I read that we specifically need to look for "Surround Sound Receivers?"

EDIT: I forgot that with many of these speakers, like with headphones, it seems each has a different sound profile? When I was looking into headphones I was given all sorts of recommendations based on what type I like, and I really had a hard time expressing myself. I think that I listen to a lot of "Bright" upbeat music(I listen to a lot of electronic music such as Video Game Music), but at the same time, I have a very low tolerance for high pitches and they will hurt my ears. I did Percussion in High School and I remember always having issues with the snare drum hurting my ears and the percussion teacher would always comment on it and say "I will get used to it," but I never did. I had purchased a "Bright" pair of Headphones and they would hurt my ears when listening, extremely painful listening experience and I had to return them.... So I'm not really sure what I want... Does it matter as much with speakers compared to Headphones? :ENDEDIT

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Overall:

Overall, I really think that getting some high quality speakers is important. I don't have a huge budget, but I really want something that will last and something that is quality, that I will be able to do what I need to, and have an immersive listening experience with music, etc.

I don't mind having to update parts if needed over time, but it seems that High Quality Speakers last for a long time if taken care of. I'm not sure if the Receiver would be the thing to be updated more often then, or what would be updated?

Thank you to everyone who has some advice for me, I really appreciate it. I'm a bit confused and a bit unsure about what I should do, so I thank everyone for any help in clearing up my concerns!

 

[PurpleAngel]

An A/V receiver with 5.1 line-input (6 RCA jacks), would easily connect to the X-Fi Pro's three 3.5mm line-output (green, orange, black).
But the best way to get 5.1 audio, to a receiver, from your computer, is an HDMI connection 7.1 (8-channels) of 24-bit/192k (or better) of digital audio
Optical is limited to 5.1 (6-channels) of compressed/encoded 24-bit/48k digital audio, or 2.0 (2-channels) of un-compressed (96k or 192k) digital audio
But I think 5.1 is impractical for your use, as you not even listening to true 5.1 audio, just 2.0 Youtube audio, that your old Z906 faked into 5.1.
Studio monitors (2.0), with a sub-woofer and replacing you X-Fi Pro, with an external USB DAC. Is what I would try and talk you into.
(better than having a bulky receiver sitting around)

 

[DragonSounds]

An A/V receiver with 5.1 line-input (6 RCA jacks), would easily connect to the X-Fi Pro's three 3.5mm line-output (green, orange, black).
But the best way to get 5.1 audio, to a receiver, from your computer, is an HDMI connection 7.1 (8-channels) of 24-bit/192k (or better) of digital audio
Optical is limited to 5.1 (6-channels) of compressed/encoded 24-bit/48k digital audio, or 2.0 (2-channels) of un-compressed (96k or 192k) digital audio
But I think 5.1 is impractical for your use, as you not even listening to true 5.1 audio, just 2.0 Youtube audio, that your old Z906 faked into 5.1.
Studio monitors (2.0), with a sub-woofer and replacing you X-Fi Pro, with an external USB DAC. Is what I would try and talk you into.
(better than having a bulky receiver sitting around)

I thank you very much for your reply and the great information you provided, thank you!

Ah, interesting on the RCA jacks. I was confused at first, but then I looked up RCA to 3.5mm conversion and I am assuming this is what you were talking about how to do, to get the 3.5mm into the soundcard?

You did not mention the quality that this would provide~(as you did with Optical/HDMI), so I'm curious how good the audio would be from RCA to 3.5mm? I'm assuming each would have their own quality output? Would it be worth looking into this method? I think that by utilizing this older SONY Receiver that I already have, as well as the Sound Card, it might work better and be cheaper overall for my needs?

You are correct, I'm not 100% sure if I'm listening to "True 5.1 audio" as I've heard most music is recorded in 2.0/2.1 Stereo? For the record, while I do listen to music sometimes on Youtube, I do listen to some on Bandcamp, as well as audio I have purchased(from Bandcamp, etc) and listen to them `on VLC. I'm not sure if any of this matters, but I've heard YT does compress audio/video a lot so I wanted to mention the other audio methods.

The "faking" of the 2.1 to 5.1 seems to have been done in the Sound card and not the Logitech Speakers, hence why I am trying to keep the Sound Card in use if possible.

I really would like to keep the surround sound if possible. I really like the immersion, but maybe the 2 loud speakers is enough? I'm just so used to getting sound from behind me too, and I really enjoy it. Also, many of the Electronic songs listen to switch channels a lot, so hearing that is nice, and again, is part of the "Immersion."
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I do appreciate the recommendation. I'm curious how the USB DAC would be compared to the Receiver? Would I need an Amp with the DAC too? The DAC is purely to convert the signals, while the Amp/Receiver would Amplify the sound and quality?

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At this point I'm not really sure what to do. It seems if I keep my Soundcard setup and do an RCA to 3.5 converter then I will be able to keep a 5.1 setup, but if I end up not having the sound card I'm not sure if I can even do proper/good 5.1 surround sound, so I'm not sure if it would even be worth it to buy a full setup? It seems to would be cheaper to do the 2.1 method, with a DAC/Receiver, but I just feel that I'm not sure I would enjoy it as much as if I would be able to get a full 5.1 sound setup.

I appreciate any advice on what I had mentioned here, and I thank you again so much for your time and help, I greatly appreciate it.

 

[PurpleAngel]

A USB DAC is 2.0 audio, so would not provide a 6-channel signal, to the receiver.
If you went with the X-Fi Pro/Sony setup, you would only have to buy the 5.1 speaker setup.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=33831
Just need three cable/adapters, 3.5mm (1/8) TRS plug to dual RCA cable, to connect the X-Fi Pro to the Sony.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=5598

But I'm more of a guy that would prefer the audio detail, provided by studio monitors (2.1), over a 5.1 setup (loudness?)
(simpler setup)

 

[DragonSounds]

A USB DAC is 2.0 audio, so would not provide a 6-channel signal, to the receiver.
If you went with the X-Fi Pro/Sony setup, you would only have to buy the 5.1 speaker setup.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=33831
Just need three cable/adapters, 3.5mm (1/8) TRS plug to dual RCA cable, to connect the X-Fi Pro to the Sony.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=5598

But I'm more of a guy that would prefer the audio detail, provided by studio monitors (2.1), over a 5.1 setup (loudness?)
(simpler setup)

Thank you for the information. How is the quality of the set you linked? It seems to be on the cheaper side, so I'm curious about it, compared to a more expensive set such as the Wharfedale?

Are you saying that a better pair of "Studio Monitors" would be better than a 5.1 setup, or...? I would think the quality wouldn't be dependent on if it's 2.1 or 5.1, but the speaker themselves. Shouldn't the experience be more enhanced with 5.1 over 2.1? I can see how your conclusion of getting an all in one set could be lower quality than just a pair of high quality studio monitors, but i would think a higher quality set or getting proper speakers for a 5.1 could be the same or better.

also, how is the quality of the Audio from the RCA cable/3.5mm compared to what I would get from HDMI?

Thank you for all the help! The monoprice is pretty cheap compared to if I were to get a whole Wharfedale set though. I wonder what sort of other options there are that are good?

Thank you!

 

[PurpleAngel]

Thank you for the information. How is the quality of the set you linked? It seems to be on the cheaper side, so I'm curious about it, compared to a more expensive set such as the Wharfedale?

Are you saying that a better pair of "Studio Monitors" would be better than a 5.1 setup, or...? I would think the quality wouldn't be dependent on if it's 2.1 or 5.1, but the speaker themselves. Shouldn't the experience be more enhanced with 5.1 over 2.1? I can see how your conclusion of getting an all in one set could be lower quality than just a pair of high quality studio monitors, but i would think a higher quality set or getting proper speakers for a 5.1 could be the same or better.

also, how is the quality of the Audio from the RCA cable/3.5mm compared to what I would get from HDMI?

Thank you for all the help! The monoprice is pretty cheap compared to if I were to get a whole Wharfedale set though. I wonder what sort of other options there are that are good?

Thank you!

I'm not a speaker expert, so I just pointing out what I would believe is a good bang for the buck ($250) speaker setup.
But your welcome to spend way more for speakers.
The DAC chips on the X-Fi Pro is 109SNR and an analog connection can pick up electrical noise generated from inside the computer case.
Running HDMI audio out of the computer and into a receiver (all digital signal) will help remove electrical noise, if there is any.
The SONY STR-K7000 is old and it might interfere with the video signal going from the graphics card, thru the Sony, to the computer screen.
But you can also just run optical, from the sound card to the Sony.

 

[DragonSounds]

I'm not a speaker expert, so I just pointing out what I would believe is a good bang for the buck ($250) speaker setup.
But your welcome to spend way more for speakers.
The DAC chips on the X-Fi Pro is 109SNR and an analog connection can pick up electrical noise generated from inside the computer case.
Running HDMI audio out of the computer and into a receiver (all digital signal) will help remove electrical noise, if there is any.
The SONY STR-K7000 is old and it might interfere with the video signal going from the graphics card, thru the Sony, to the computer screen.
But you can also just run optical, from the sound card to the Sony.

I had a long reply written out, but my tab was closed and lost the entire reply... I will try to replicate the details as best as possible

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I thank you very much for your help and replies, I greatly appreciate it.

Here are my current thoughts.

I'm thinking that I can try to see the 2.1 method vs the 5.1 method and see what I like better between the 2. You had mentioned before about me using the 5.1 for loudness, but it's not about how loud the music is (you can get as loud with the 2.1 I would think), what I care about the sound immersion. The fact I can hear sounds from all around me is what I am looking for. It's okay hearing it in front, but I enjoy hearing things from behind me as well. I actually would love to do 7.1, and my sound card does do that it seems, but I only have the orange, green, and black cords, I'm not sure what the other 2 speakers use for a cord(is it one of the 3?), but it seems I do have a 4th port on my sound card, but I thought that was for mic. The sound card also has an external console for stuff as well https://img.hexus.net/v2/audio/creative/x-fi/external_back.jpg

I am unsure about noise I do sometimes hear crackling at the end of songs when the song fades out ,but I don't really notice anything in general, but maybe I would notice it more if I had something that didn't have noise? Music always sounds great.

From what you make it seem like, the old Sony probably isn't a good choice, and I should invest into a newer unit (besides the fact the newer HDMI standard is better). I will look into investing into a newer Receiver, then.
`
When looking for some reviews a couple of people mentioned they had purchased this unit https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/rx-v385_u/index.html

I'm not sure if there are preferred units/companies. Would this be best asked in the "Computer Audio" subforum here instead?

I`'m curious if there is much of a difference between getting a USB DAC vs the Receiver? Would the Standalone DAC be better? In general, what are the differences between DACs and are they that noticable/needed? When looking at the schiit DACs there are a lot of variance in price.`


As much as I would rather get a smaller DAC and just do the 2.1 Setup, I just feel that having the surround sound immersion is just what I enjoy more, but I am open to trying just the 2 speakers. I will say I did, at one point, have a "JVC Tower of Power" speaker setup back around 2005 or so, and I stopped using it after I got the Z2200E surround sound speakers from logitech. I feel like I still did use the JVC sometimes because I believe it was louder and I recall it having a different sound, but I always preferred the 5.1 setup.

After just recalling that, I think that I really don't see a need to do the 2.1 setup.... I also don't see why a 2.1 setup would be any clearer in sound compared to a 5.1 setup, besides having different gear to use with it (receiver vs USB DAC).

I also realized last night that I can just buy a set of front speakers and use my old logitech center and rear speaker in 5.1 (maybe even using the front as side speakers for 7.1), until I can purchase more expensive `all around speakers. This way I can get an upgrade, while still enjoying what I normally had with 5.1

Also, from what I read RCA is direct analog so there shouldn't be any loss of quality, as compared to the Digital inputs which could be compressed? It seems that the RCA to 3.5mm shouldn't be too big of an issue then for the sound card(maybe there is a better port I can use for 5.1, from the picture i provided above)?

Overall, I think my best bet is doing the 5.1 surround, and just buying a new receiver and a new set of front speakers and use the old set for the other speakers. I just wasn't sure if it made too much of a difference`of 2.1 vs 5.1, but recalling my experience from almost 20 years ago, with the JVC unit, I think that having the 5.1/surround sound, is the way to go, besides just how I overall have felt with 5.1 and surround sound.

I assume that the sound/music quality would be about the same going from sound card to the receiver to the 5 speakers compared to HDMI from the computer to a USB DAC to the 2 speakers? Or maybe in this hypothetical instance using a receiver in both cases(instead of the usb dac) so as to not confuse 2 different devices(DAC vs Receiver)? I also would think that the receiver having an amp would be a benefit. The sound card would also have an amp right? Would the Sound Card's amp work in unison with the Receivers Amp, or would only one be used?

I think that is all. Any advice or opinions to my questions are greatly appreciated. You have really helped me out with all of this, thank you!

 

[earmonger]

Obviously people here care about audio and have home setups. But you might also ask your question at https://gearspace.com/ where the studio professionals hang out.

 

[PurpleAngel]

For a 5.1 setup, I thinking to get the 5.1 speakers and just keep using the Sony.
You can connect the X-fi Pro, to the Sony, using both green, orange, black
and an optical cable, you can then test to see which sounds better to your ears.
Modern Yamaha A/V receivers, with full discreet amplifiers, usually go for around $500 or more.
So a $300 Yamaha RX-v385 might not offer better amplifiers, then the Sony.

 

[DragonSounds]

Obviously people here care about audio and have home setups. But you might also ask your question at https://gearspace.com/ where the studio professionals hang out.

Thank you for your help, I appreciate it. I will take a look there. I would assume the level of items there would be far beyond my budget(not saying here isn't the same case), but since you mentioned "Studio professionals" it makes me think it's more "higher end," but maybe they have budget advice and such too?

For a 5.1 setup, I thinking to get the 5.1 speakers and just keep using the Sony.
You can connect the X-fi Pro, to the Sony, using both green, orange, black
and an optical cable, you can then test to see which sounds better to your ears.
Modern Yamaha A/V receivers, with full discreet amplifiers, usually go for around $500 or more.
So a $300 Yamaha RX-v385 might not offer better amplifiers, then the Sony.

Thank you for your advice, i appreciate it. I was thinking about this for the last hour or so, but I realize I can just get the 3.5mm to RCA adapters and just use my current setup of Logitech speakers while I look into higher end gear. I think this is the best approach for now.

I thank you also for the link to the monoprice adapter. I'm curious if there is much of a difference when it comes to plugs/connectors and how well they perform vs each other? It seems people like the "Gold Plated" gear(as well as other specifics),but I'm not sure how much that is a gimmick or how well it works (how many are using real gold?).

Is Monoprice a good company? Since you recommended both the 5.1 system and the adapter, I assume you have experience with them before? I already have an optical toslink cable so I can try that out again, but I think it didn't work properly in 5.1.

Thank you for that information on the Yamaha, is it the same with Sony and Other brands? That you will have to pay a bit to get a good quality amp, etc?

Interesting....

If I don't use HDMI for now this makes the most sense. I don't see switching from my current setup but who knows, so I think not using the HDMI and using the RCA with the SONY would suffice.

I also wanted to take a look at the SONY and figure out the plugs

I assume the "Multi CH IN" is where I would connect up the RCA cables connected to Green/Orange/Black?

Thank you so very much for all of your time and help, I greatly appreciate it!

I look forward to being able to listen to music on something that isn't my desktop monitor that barely outputs sound.

 

[PurpleAngel]

yea, connect the green, orange, black to the Sony's Multi Ch IN.
I like Monoprice's price on cables, there generic no name cables.
So when you order the 3.5mm TRS to dual RCA cables, you can order four or five, just incase one cable is defective.
One has to wonder if the Logitech speakers and the Sony's amplifiers are compatible (Ohm range?).

 

[DragonSounds]

yea, connect the green, orange, black to the Sony's Multi Ch IN.
I like Monoprice's price on cables, there generic no name cables.
So when you order the 3.5mm TRS to dual RCA cables, you can order four or five, just incase one cable is defective.
One has to wonder if the Logitech speakers and the Sony's amplifiers are compatible (Ohm range?).

Thank you for the info.

Is defective products something you notice with monoprice?

I will check the speakers on the Logitech and the ohms. If it's outside the range will it just not work, or will it cause damage? It looks like it says 8-16/18 on the back of this unit. I also realize that this Sony has an entire 5.1 system that came with it.... The speakers are bigger, so I wonder if this system is better than the logitech one. The logitech I believe is newer though.

According to a quick check on a reddit post, it mentioned the stock speakers are 4 ohms... Does this mean I cannot use them...? Damn... I guess I'll try to hook up the other speakers then...

 

[PurpleAngel]

Thank you for the info.

Is defective products something you notice with monoprice?

I will check the speakers on the Logitech and the ohms. If it's outside the range will it just not work, or will it cause damage? It looks like it says 8-16/18 on the back of this unit. I also realize that this Sony has an entire 5.1 system that came with it.... The speakers are bigger, so I wonder if this system is better than the logitech one. The logitech I believe is newer though.

According to a quick check on a reddit post, it mentioned the stock speakers are 4 ohms... Does this mean I cannot use them...? Damn... I guess I'll try to hook up the other speakers then...

I do not remember an negative issues with buying audio cables from Monoprice over the 9 years I have be dealing with Monoprice.
But you could spend $18 (plus tax) on the three cables from BestBuy, cables that look very generic and un-shielded (in retail packaging).
and if one is defective, you have to drive back to BestBuy and swap the cable(s).
Or spend $18.50, plus tax, plus shipping, on 5 of Monoprice's shielded cables (in plain plastic bags), with gold connectors.
And if one of the cables is bad, you do not have to drive anywhere, because you have two spares.

I would use the Sony speakers, bigger woofer, than whatever the Z906 has.
And use the Sony sub-woofer.
And the Sony 5.1 speakers may have less use and wear and tear, than the Logitech stuff.