[Xerosnake90]

Malarkey. Sure, you may be missing 2 percent of ultimate fidelity with the Atom+ stack. But at what cost?

For a price-effective, clean stack with no coloration of the sound and sufficient power, the Atom+ stack is at or near the top of the price-value list.

Just out of curiosity. What Amps have you A/Bd the XS with?

 

[pk4425]

Just out of curiosity. What Amps have you A/Bd the XS with?

Not as many as you, I'm sure. But I do know the XS sounds mighty nice with an Atom+ stack.

I'm sure there are better options with more power. But they probably will cost more. Up to the user whether they want and need that power at all costs.

My point to the OP is that the Atom+ stack works just fine with the XS, especially for the price. It delivers enough clean power to the headphones to drive them loudly and with good dynamics. You don't HAVE to have a more powerful amp to get enjoyment from the XS. I wouldn't recommend a dongle or most portable amps (unless they have balanced output), but the Atom+ stack works fine for those who don't want to spend a lot of dosh.

Is the Jot better? I'm sure it is. The Jot also costs $399; the Atom+ costs $99.

P.S.: Give your XS headband time and some gentle kneading with your thumbs on the hotspot. It will break in. My HE-400se had the same headband and created the worst hotspot I've ever felt with a headphone, but use and gentle kneading eliminated that within a week. Oddly, enough the XS uses the same headband, and I never had one hotspot. Maybe the reason is the different cup size and weight?

 

[cycloverid]

They could easily supply both curves. Notice manufacturers are not following suit (skull candy type crap not included). You can prefer what you want.

I rebutted this in my other post but want to call this out separately, because I think there is some sort of 'manufacturer's intention' misunderstanding especially in Head-Fi.

Open back planar designs CANNOT have a bass shelf in stock tuning. This isn't some 'industry trend' in terms of intentions. It's a limitation of planar open back designs only. So, there is no 'agreement' or 'purity' about how a headphone should be tuned in the bass response. Since HFM almost solely makes open backs, this creates a confirmation bias with some audiophiles I think.

There would certainly be far more shelved open back planar options out there if this wasn't a limitation.

 

[yeboyi]

The impact qualities are overall better than my Sundara I'd say(both EQ'd), which many find very good. It's probably all frequencies below 100hz have good slam to my preference, not just sub bass (20-50hz). The Sundara I think edges it out above the 100hz range, but not by a lot (again, I think this solely has to do with the fact that your ear is a bit closer to the driver with the Sundara). The Sundara starts to roll off at around 50hz, so this is where it's a no contest.

I had my brother try them for a song, and the first words that came out of his mouth were 'that's a basshead headphone'. So we MUST be talking about different things when we say 'slam/impact'. I'm actually really curious how you guys define it. What are your EQ settings and what songs/tracks are you using to test this?

Let's exclude very expensive headphones like the LCD-4, as I haven't tried it and many people in the market for the Edition XS won't be also considering a 4k headphone.


Edit:
Here's a very recent review that agrees with my take:

https://www.mmorpg.com/hardware-reviews/hifiman-edition-xs-review-2000124181

"These aren't a bass-head headphone but they can absolutely be EQ'd to be. "

So, in what way are some like myself experiencing something very different than others in here? Let's get to the bottom of it.

Edition XS might be improved over Ananda with the stealth magnets. Haven't heard XS. Ananda is definitely soft hitting. And no EQ improves the Ananda's slam.
Try something like DT 1990 it punches your head.
Sub bass is another story. It's addictively articulate.

 

[Xerosnake90]

Not as many as you, I'm sure. But I do know the XS sounds mighty nice with an Atom+ stack.

I'm sure there are better options with more power. But they probably will cost more. Up to the user whether they want and need that power at all costs.

My point to the OP is that the Atom+ stack works just fine with the XS, especially for the price. It delivers enough clean power to the headphones to drive them loudly and with good dynamics. You don't HAVE to have a more powerful amp to get enjoyment from the XS. I wouldn't recommend a dongle or most portable amps (unless they have balanced output), but the Atom+ stack works fine for those who don't want to spend a lot of dosh.

Is the Jot better? I'm sure it is. The Jot also costs $399; the Atom+ costs $99.

Then say that, and not call "malarkey" when someone says you're going to be missing out on sound quality and then say MAYBE it's a 2% difference when you have no idea at all.

I find it disingenuous to tell people such things and you don't even have ground to stand on with the subject. Atom Amp works just like Hel 2 does but you're gimping a $500 pair of headphones. If you're unwilling to spend the extra money to power them properly then get yourself a pair of headphones that are easier to drive its simple as that. Then you don't have to spend the extra money on the amp to power it and you're not throwing away $500 on headphones that you're not even utilizing properly.

Sundara are cheaper, M1060c is cheaper, Harmonicdyne Zeus are cheaper. Buy one of those instead

 

[cycloverid]

Edition XS might be improved over Ananda with the stealth magnets. Haven't heard XS. Ananda is definitely soft hitting. And no EQ improves the Ananda's slam.
Try something like DT 1990 it punches your head.
Sub bass is another story. It's addictively articulate.

Yeah I've tried the DT1990, it's embarrassingly light in the sub 100hz bass impact. It's barely even noticeable compared to the Sundara, and the XS is even better than that. (All headphones with EQ, level matched). The DT1990 isn't at all a basshead headphone, though I'm sure it's fine otherwise - these other two can atleast enter that arena though with EQ.

The small dynamic driver on the DT1990 also audibly distorts at even a few db above stock tuning below 50-60hz, it's not even a contender here. The XS is a couple leagues above this headphone.

Why are there so many of you guys who haven't tried the XS speaking so confidently in here? With all due respect, there may be differences right? Or maybe we're doing something else differently. Haven't tried the Ananda, so can't say what the differences are here.

 

[bagwell359]

I rebutted this in my other post but want to call this out separately, because I think there is some sort of 'manufacturer's intention' misunderstanding especially in Head-Fi.

Open back planar designs CANNOT have a bass shelf in stock tuning. This isn't some 'industry trend' in terms of intentions. It's a limitation of planar open back designs only. So, there is no 'agreement' or 'purity' about how a headphone should be tuned in the bass response. Since HFM almost solely makes open backs, this creates a confirmation bias with some audiophiles I think.

There would certainly be far more shelved open back planar options out there if this wasn't a limitation.

When u say shelved I think EQ. I've only heard 3 closed backs that have decent tuning - I don't seek them out.

Limitations of open back headphone bass - pardon me while I wipe off the coffee that spurted out my nose. Guffaw... LCD-4 AND 5, HE-6 OG, Phi and others have a combination of proper Q, timbre, impact, speed and lack of overhang that torches all but a few closed backs.

As far as correct bass most reputable companies have tried for decades to produce the most accurate sound. In the past 10 years some have kicked up the bass for market share. I can't think of one that tries to match the Harmon curve per Crinicle which is excessive and wrong headed in the extreme - if accurate playback is a goal - period.

 

[cycloverid]

When u say shelved I think EQ. I've only heard 3 closed backs that have decent tuning - I don't seek them out.

Limitations of open back headphone bass - pardon me while wipe off the coffee that spurted out my nose. Guffaw... LCD-4 AND 5, HE-6 OG, Phi and others have a combination of proper Q, timbre, impact, speed and lack of overhang that torches all but a few closed backs.

As far as correct bass most reputable companies have tried for decades to produce the most accurate sound. In the past 10 some have kicked up the bass for market share. I can't think of one that tries to match the Harmon curve per Crinicle which is excessive and wrong headed in the extreme - if accurate playback is a goal - period.

Nothing that you said here contradicts what I've said. There are shelved open back dynamic headphones (Focal, Beyer, etc), there are no planars like this. Find me one, I'll wait...

Resolve has covered this topic numerous times, so feel free to read up on it. Again, not a 'goal' of planar manufacturers, it's simply a physical limitation. Most people, like crinacle, have begun using the 2018 Harman target because it's an average/consensus target - which means this is what most people like...

 

[ahmonge]

Wild how the Ananda fit is so different for everybody

Probably due to the lack of vertical swivel

 

[bagwell359]

Nothing that you said here contradicts what I've said. There are shelved open back dynamic headphones (Focal, Beyer, etc), there are no planars like this. Find me one, I'll wait...

Resolve has covered this topic numerous times, so feel free to read up on it. Again, not a 'goal' of planar manufacturers, it's simply a physical limitation.

You cut out part of my last post. I said when I read "shelf" I think EQ.

Interesting that Resolves top 13 cans are mostly planar and a few estats. No dynamics.

Physical limitation? ...snort ! On this site planars are considered to be better than dynamics in the bass department by a healthy margin. Whatever better means to the people opining. Ties in with Resolves opinion.

Ciao.

 

[cycloverid]

You cut out part of my last post. I said when I read "shelf" I think EQ.

Interesting that Resolves top 13 cans are mostly planar and a few estats. No dynamics.

Physical limitation? ...snort ! On this site planars are considered to be better than dynamics in the bass department by a healthy margin. Whatever better means to the people opining. Ties in with Resolves opinion.

Ciao.

I agree that planars have better bass performance - lower distortion and better extension. But you aren't understanding me. The stock FR can't do bass boost / shelving with open back, which does in fact increase punch and slam (also depends on the driver obviously). Stop snorting and start getting educated... lol

 

[yeboyi]

Yeah I've tried the DT1990, it's embarrassingly light in the sub 100hz bass impact. It's barely even noticeable compared to the Sundara, and the XS is even better than that. (All headphones with EQ, level matched). The DT1990 isn't at all a basshead headphone, though I'm sure it's fine otherwise - these other two can atleast enter that arena though with EQ.

The small dynamic driver on the DT1990 also audibly distorts at even a few db above stock tuning below 50-60hz, it's not even a contender here. The XS is a couple leagues above this headphone.

Why are there so many of you guys who haven't tried the XS speaking so confidently in here? With all due respect, there may be differences right? Or maybe we're doing something else differently. Haven't tried the Ananda, so can't say what the differences are here.

Well i disagree with this. DT 1990 is more basshead headphone than any egg shape planar out there out of the box. You can EQ sub bass on these planars but you can't get that physical hit from the bass. In fact, elevated sub bass drown the mid/high bass even more. 1990 has good extension and dynamics.

Just try the 4 seconds intro of this song ''Arctic Monkeys - R U Mine?'' on Tidal and see which one has more precise and impactful hit and pullback at the same time. On 1990 your ears will be exposed to pressure change due to drivers speed and impact. It will hit right and left and it will disappear before hitting again which will give you satisfying sensation. On egg shape planar you will have undefined cloud of soft compressed bass released on your ears and it will not disappear/reappear at all.
You will not have that dynamic range reproduction. The difference here, you will have better articulation in this cloud of sub bass if the song calls for it and if you EQ it a lot(which you can). Different qualities.

1990 is one of the most basshead ''audiophile'' headphone in the market if you can accept the 8k peak. Probably not as good as biodyna Fostex/Emu headphones or Focal's but it's very dynamic, precise and has the stock tuning advantage with balanced pads.

Edition XS might be improved over Ananda with the stealth magnets. Haven't heard XS. Ananda is definitely soft hitting. And no EQ improves the Ananda's slam.
Try something like DT 1990 it punches your head.
Sub bass is another story. It's addictively articulate.

This is my post so it's not that confident as you claim but even Arya is regarded as soft hitting so there is that. But probably Ananda is noticeably the worst. I'm curious about Resolve's and other's opinions on this. XS is new.

 

[cycloverid]

Well i disagree with this. DT 1990 is more basshead headphone than any egg shape planar out there out of the box. You can EQ sub bass on these planars but you can't get that physical hit from the bass. In fact, elevated sub bass drown the mid/high bass even more. 1990 has good extension and dynamics.


Just try the 4 seconds intro of this song ''Arctic Monkeys - R U Mine?'' on Tidal and see which one has more precise and impactful hit and pullback at the same time. On 1990 your ears will be exposed to pressure change due to drivers speed and impact. It will hit right and left and it will disappear before hitting again which will give you satisfying sensation. On egg shape planar you will have undefined cloud of soft compressed bass released on your ears and it will not disappear/reappear at all.
You will not have that dynamic range reproduction. The difference here, you will have better articulation in this cloud of sub bass if the song calls for it and if you EQ it a lot(which you can). Different qualities.

1990 is one of the most basshead ''audiophile'' headphone in the market if you can accept the 8k peak. Probably not as good as biodyna Fostex/Emu headphones or Focal's but it's very dynamic, precise and has the stock tuning advantage with balanced pads.


This is my post so it's not that confident as you claim but even Arya is regarded as soft hitting so there is that. But probably Ananda is noticeably the worst. I'm curious about Resolve's and other's opinions on this. XS is new.

Hey look, there's the open-back dynamic bass shelf I've been talking to @bagwell359 about. Yes, I agree the DT1990 is more elevated in stock tuning over the XS. In order to do a fair comparison in bass dynamic potential, one first needs to do an EQ level test. You can EQ on the XS and the impact raises SUBSTANTIALLY, not sure about the Ananda. You are simply incorrect.

I put the DT1990 through the ringer, this is NOT a basshead headphone and many bassheads would be very shocked upon trying them at how weak they are in this regard (they were weaker than my DT770 in this regard). They are okay in punch/high bass (also have massive mid-bloat with balanced pads), but in low bass they are very weak and audibly distorted with any EQ boost at all practically. I wish I could have you try my setup, because these would blow you away coming from the DT1990 in many areas regarding the bass.

Try 'Future - Mask Off' (song starts at ~1:30, not a high brow song I'm aware but works as a 'bass test'). The bass sounded distorted on the DT1990 and not impactful compared to the Sundara. The bass on the XS is skull rattling on this song and extends super deep and distortion free, it's way beyond anything the 1990 can do. I think they would be more comparable in the mid/high bass area, which is where most of the bass is located on that Arctic Monkeys song. Bassheads are usually really into low/sub bass, but there are outliers. The DT1990 just doesn't perform well here. Perhaps for the genres you're into you don't get a lot of low/sub bass, so it's fine for you.

edit: I'm just going to add that I think the analogy of hot sauce works well when we're talking about 'basshead bass', because it can go to the absolute extreme. The XS sub/low bass impact is like 150,000 scovilles (very hot for most people), while the DT1990 is like 15,000 scovilles (hot for some people). To some, these might seem really hot on their own, but I don't want to blow the XS out of proportion. There are also basshead headphones where the headphone is actually bouncing on your face - and it's not at the 1,000,000 scoville range. Haha, okay fun analogy... you're coming to a person who really likes hot sauce and showing me your Taco Bell Diablo sauce here. It's fine, but it's in a different league.

 

[Xerosnake90]

Probably due to the lack of vertical swivel

The XS don't have vertical swivel either but a bit of horizontal movement instead. I think the headband itself just clamps much much harder due to the shape

 

[cycloverid]

The XS don't have vertical swivel either but a bit of horizontal movement instead. I think the headband itself just clamps much much harder due to the shape

Wait, I liked this comment thinking you were saying the same thing I was going to say. They do have full vertical swivel and some weird horizontal swivel right? This gives it a slight edge over the Ananda for some people in terms of seal according to Resolve.