When you hand that transcending headphone over to some guy with an ear shaped different from yours, he's going to find a headphone with a sucked-out midrange, 15 dB of treble boost, or something like that, depending on the physical deviation of his ears from yours. Sound quality isn't inherent in headphones, which means you need eq to make a universally transcending headphone. But your side of the argument seems to deal more with the other important factor: whether you can get a type of sound with eq. It's like with a pencil in that if you can't draw a realistic picture, for lack of practice or otherwise, it doesn't mean it can't be done, and it doesn't mean those who can won't benefit from their ability.
I get what your saying, the shape of your head and ears, the position of the pads, the seal, all of these variables can influence the sonic perception, this is hard science fact
I'm thinking ears are more alike than different, I'm thinking Bell-Curve distribution in physical deviations that alter the sound perception, I've mentioned Fletcher-Munson numerous times already,
Like I commented before I'm not going to "break" the sound with tone control, just my personal preference
This new Magister company does just the same thing and offers handfuls of different wood cups to change the sound.
I know very little about sound science still with wood string instruments the wood is mixed and matched to get a desired sound. Maple guitars end up having a bright sound, mahogany wood guitars have a duller and darker sound. The other component is resonance and the delay of the sound. Some guitars have a long, long delay due to the wood and design where some guitars have a quick fall off of sound.
What I believe is these are some of the elements which can not be EQed to make one set of headphones sound like another.
There may be some kind of delay program which could approximate the wood resonance but EQ is just not going to do it alone.
I get what your saying, the shape of your head and ears, the position of the pads, the seal, all of these variables can influence the sonic perception, this is hard science fact
I'm thinking ears are more alike than different, I'm thinking Bell-Curve distribution in physical deviations that alter the sound perception, I've mentioned Fletcher-Munson numerous times already,
Like I commented before I'm not going to "break" the sound with tone control, just my personal preference
It's not too surprising if you find ear variation normally distributed - you'll also find that hardware has no way to deal with this variation on the level of an individual pair of headphones.
You say the shape of the ears can influence perception, but that's an understatement. It will alter the sound before it reaches your eardrum, and it will alter it in ways the manufacturer couldn't predict, thus "breaking" the sound regardless of whether you use eq or not. The difference is, if you do use eq and know what you're doing, you can mend the sound.
We have seen it one hundred times. Maybe the members have never heard a really great set-up and are so used to uphonic color that they just do not recognize a superior signature when they first hear it.
Or?
The members are just in love with colored sound?
The sound masks faults upstream to generate an easy listen, where a more resolving set of cans sounds ugly?
What a great thread! Thanks for starting it. I am in the area of what you are calling "Tier-2" headphones mainly for budgetary reasons. I don't know how long my control can last
I am coming from a speakers background and newer to headphone world. In the speaker world, I had a setup where I could measure room modes, correct them with room treatments, EQ and so on for neutral sound signature. Once the setup was complete, I could hear neutral reproduction of the entire frequency range from deep sub-bass to high treble. Also, I had somewhat OK response of all frequencies from IEMs, especially the multiple driver balanced armatures.
Now, coming to full size headphones, I came to a realization that it is very difficult to reproduce the entire audio spectrum nicely. Maybe because of a single driver design? The single driver gives great cohesion but maybe it just cannot faithfully reproduce the entire audio spectrum? I will give two extreme examples. I like the bass quality of LCD-3 and I like the treble quality of HD800 (modded). If there was a headphone with these a hybrid of these two, that would be perfect for me.
Also, I found that the higher end phones sound great on higher end setups. For example, I greatly preferred HD800 on a $4000 setup compared to $500 setup.
I listen to a variety of genres. I realized I would gravitate towards a specific headphone because it would reproduce good sub bass for Hip Hop. Then I would prefer another headphone because it would reproduce the detail with great soundstage for classical music. This would mean for my varied genre tastes/preferences, my budget would have to accommodate multiple higher end phones with multiple higher end setups. This adds up to astronomical amounts.
Soooooooo, for now, I use multiple Tier-2 headphones with multiple Tier-2 setups to listen to different genres. If budget was unlimited (or if I was not married
I believe the price to be a secondary factor. somebody passionate about sound will have to pay a lot to get TOTL speaker system. compared to that a 1500$ headphone is almost a benediction. of course I'm thinking as a privileged guy in a rich(apparently debts don't count ^_^) country.
even a 350$ headphone is crazy expensive compared to what the average guy get paid in some countries.
but the hifi world is very obviously focusing and setting their prices for rich countries, so the target IMO is still in majority able to afford an expensive headphone if he/she really wants one.
to me a more obvious problem is that there are only so many places to try the headphones. so some will buy a hd800 or a LCD or even a stax because they read it's the top and can afford the top(how cool is it when you can say you have the best something in the world ^_^ that's super cool). but the same way, I'm guessing a great many people actually don't go for those products because they just wouldn't pay so much for something they can't try first.
because people going to meets or having one way or another the opportunity to listen to all famous headphones, that's a super small niche I would guess.
i disagree. middle class is always the majority. i do not think the majority can afford TOTL headphones. TOTL items are usually for the elite. always has been and always will be.
i disagree. middle class is always the majority. i do not think the majority can afford TOTL headphones. TOTL items are usually for the elite. always has been and always will be.
Middle class folks can afford a grand or two on a luxury item if they really want it. Buying a set of high end headphones isn't like buying a villa in France or a Picasso.
Middle class folks can afford a grand or two on a luxury item if they really want it. Buying a set of high end headphones isn't like buying a villa in France or a Picasso.
sure they can. just like the guy down the road living in the single wide mobile home can afford the brand new Escalade in his driveway. seems reasonable.
Economics of scale: Middle class people can certainly afford a $1K to $2K luxury item. That isn't the same as being able to afford a $150K car or a 4 million dollar house.
yes, it is not the same. but if you read the thread, other than the science debate going on, it seems the majority of people don't buy TOTL headphones because of the high cost. plain and simple. yes, most people can afford it. but most people don't find it reasonable to spend a grand or two on headphones.
Economics of scale: Middle class people can certainly afford a $1K to $2K luxury item. That isn't the same as being able to afford a $150K car or a 4 million dollar house.
Economies of scale, in essence, refers to a widget becoming less expensive as a business grows to incorporate more facets of production. For example, it's much cheaper for GM to produce an alternator than it is for Ferrari.
As for middle class folks buying luxury items, it happens more often than one would think. The typical Viper buyer is blue color; he just saved for a long time. The two biggest clients I had, when I sold High-End, were a partner in a law firm and a guy who had a small window washing business with one employee. It's a matter of wanting something badly enough.
This new Magister company does just the same thing and offers handfuls of different wood cups to change the sound.
I know very little about sound science still with wood string instruments the wood is mixed and matched to get a desired sound. Maple guitars end up having a bright sound, mahogany wood guitars have a duller and darker sound. The other component is resonance and the delay of the sound. Some guitars have a long, long delay due to the wood and design where some guitars have a quick fall off of sound.
What I believe is these are some of the elements which can not be EQed to make one set of headphones sound like another.
There may be some kind of delay program which could approximate the wood resonance but EQ is just not going to do it alone.
You will notice not one sound science member responded to my post. If the EQ people are challenged in a way they can not explain, they just avoid the topic and go about on their own delusional journey. I would love to have a life like that way but can't have a life believing lies.
What a great thread! Thanks for starting it. I am in the area of what you are calling "Tier-2" headphones mainly for budgetary reasons. I don't know how long my control can last
I am coming from a speakers background and newer to headphone world. In the speaker world, I had a setup where I could measure room modes, correct them with room treatments, EQ and so on for neutral sound signature. Once the setup was complete, I could hear neutral reproduction of the entire frequency range from deep sub-bass to high treble. Also, I had somewhat OK response of all frequencies from IEMs, especially the multiple driver balanced armatures.
Now, coming to full size headphones, I came to a realization that it is very difficult to reproduce the entire audio spectrum nicely. Maybe because of a single driver design? The single driver gives great cohesion but maybe it just cannot faithfully reproduce the entire audio spectrum? I will give two extreme examples. I like the bass quality of LCD-3 and I like the treble quality of HD800 (modded). If there was a headphone with these a hybrid of these two, that would be perfect for me.
Also, I found that the higher end phones sound great on higher end setups. For example, I greatly preferred HD800 on a $4000 setup compared to $500 setup.
I listen to a variety of genres. I realized I would gravitate towards a specific headphone because it would reproduce good sub bass for Hip Hop. Then I would prefer another headphone because it would reproduce the detail with great soundstage for classical music. This would mean for my varied genre tastes/preferences, my budget would have to accommodate multiple higher end phones with multiple higher end setups. This adds up to astronomical amounts.
Soooooooo, for now, I use multiple Tier-2 headphones with multiple Tier-2 setups to listen to different genres. If budget was unlimited (or if I was not married ), I would have gone with Tier-1.
Your talk about flagships needing top tier stuff to scale up is what I personally believe. This is the main reason so many reviews of headphones don't agree. Both synergy and matching are needed. Many think the flaws in the headphones are real but the flaws are in the amp or DAC. This results in a huge disparity in reviews. IMO.
You will notice not one sound science member responded to my post. If the EQ people are challenged in a way they can not explain, they just avoid the topic and go about on their own delusional journey. I would love to live that way but can't live believing lies.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
), I would have gone with Tier-1.
