[PointyFox]

You are just going to have to live with the fact that your ears can't perceive the difference.

It was never established that there IS a difference. Maybe there isn't and you'd have to "live with the fact that your ears CAN perceive a difference".

I even joke about unoficcialy mark this thread as solved and closed

You such a funny guy! Ho ho!

Unlike you, I'm also fortunate to own about a dozen of dacs

Just because someone has money doesn't mean they need a dozen of something. That's a sign of mental illness.

I would be lying if I tell you I can spot what dac or x source is sounding in a test

So you're lying?

it's clear that all sound different simply because they are all materially made diferently

No, that's not clear and shouldn't be assumed.

even the same model of an amp or source can sound different simply because the components inside the circuitry have a % of tolerance of their values

That's not true. The differences can be so small that they couldn't possibly be detected by humans. You're making a lot of incorrect assumptions.

not all of us have ... the understanding of this science and the knowledge of electronics, so I get why all these post must be driving you crazy

If you have such understanding, maybe you can use some of your knowledge of science and electronics to explain how DACs can sound different besides just saying it's due to the use of different materials?

 

[bigshot]

Try a yggy or a Holo spring dac

Great! A suggestion. Do you own one of these DACs that we could get access to for testing? When you say that they are different than consumer DACs, do you mean that all consumer DACs sound the same and just these sound different? That would make more sense to me.

 

[Maxx134]

I'm pretty sure I'm not being clear .
I don't mean different sound ..
I mean like more sounds..
Missing sounds like details, ambient's cues and soundstage are not really considered a different sound..

 

[Elecroestatico]

I've heard of changes in board design, but mainly for other reasons like interference and oscillation problems..


Actually I have great suggestions.
Try a yggy or a Holo spring dac as your reference for a week or so, then try to switch back to a ****y consumer dac and you will see.

when I was a noob and I got my first e10k fiio dac I thought I had it all and the perfect sound signal, until I went to a headphone expo and pluged my phones to other sources and also was exposed to the signal of a quest amp dac or when I heard the focal utopia pluged into a chord dave, thats when I realize how silly my perfecty flat and linear analog fiio signal it was and how little I knew about this hobby. Oh well live and learn. Im sure many here will no longer believe this no sense of all amps and dacs sound the same or that cables are all the same as they mature in this hobby

 

[Elecroestatico]

Great! A suggestion. Do you own one of these DACs that we could get access to for testing? When you say that they are different than consumer DACs, do you mean that all consumer DACs sound the same and just these sound different? That would make more sense to me.

I'm pretty sure that what he means is that it will totally destroy any of those tiny consumer dacs and you will be blown away.... of course if your ears-brain are capable of detecting the difference, but in my experience almost anybody can when exposed to something like that after being used to play iphones and relativly cheap dacs

think of this as most dacs under lets say 500 will only give you 1080p now spend more and yes like he said more details, more control, better attacks, better separation of instruments, a more coherent soundstage, etc etc etc, like form 1080p to 4k sort of but you get the idea

 

[PointyFox]

when I was a noob and I got my first e10k fiio dac I thought I had it all and the perfect sound signal, until I went to a headphone expo and pluged my phones to other sources and also was exposed to the signal of a quest amp dac or when I heard the focal utopia pluged into a chord dave, thats when I realize how silly my perfecty flat and linear analog fiio signal it was and how little I knew about this hobby. Oh well live and learn. Im sure many here will no longer believe this no sense of all amps and dacs sound the same or that cables are all the same as they mature in this hobby

I've owned and heard a lot of top of the line equipment, and have never heard a difference in sound quality between amps, dacs, and cables (excluding really cheap amps and DACs) except when amps were under-powered or effects due to cable resistance on extremely sensitive low impedance IEMs. I've compared many things, such as the Z1R with a $40 cable and $200 worth of DAC/amp vs a $800 cable with $5000 worth of DAC/amp and heard no difference. Even with a $3 sound card vs. a $800 amplifier, the only difference was the slightest bit of increase in the volume of the low end due to the sound card being slightly under-powered. If cables make such a difference in terms of how electricity flow through them, people wouldn't be using any old cheap cable for electronics hookups or testing leads for even the most sensitive measurement devices like they do.

 

[Elecroestatico]

So by your own admission you could not spot oops, sorry, hear the difference between a sound card and your Chord. Perhaps you are just going to have to live with the fact your ears can't perceive the difference.



You have certainly proven this!!

In a proper blind test you would not be able to tell the difference between coat hanger wire and a 1K interconnect.

what i mean is that from a dozen of dacs in a bling test I wont be able to pick what model im listening to, but I can easily tell that you have change the source, and since im familiar with my sources (dacs daps etc) I will be actually able to correctly tell what sorce you are playing me wiith a less ratio of success but still. Dont you undertand this?
Also not because I can have a few errors on a test means I connot detect differences, I pointed everything myself the good and bad and you try to turn it all against me in a super cheap way? BIG LOL to you, but still you don't win the first prize

 

[oldmate]

when I was a noob

Still a "noob" pal as it's only noobs and audiofools who sprout your nonsense.

 

[oldmate]

what i mean is that from a dozen of dacs in a bling test I wont be able to pick what model im listening to, but I can easily tell that you have change the source, and since im familiar with my sources (dacs daps etc) I will be actually able to correctly tell what sorce you are playing me wiith a less ratio of success but still. Dont you undertand this?

You have just contradicted yourself. Don't you understand this??

 

[Elecroestatico]

+

I've owned and heard a lot of top of the line equipment, and have never heard a difference in sound quality between amps, dacs, and cables (excluding really cheap amps and DACs) except when amps were under-powered or effects due to cable resistance on extremely sensitive low impedance IEMs. I've compared many things, such as the Z1R with a $40 cable and $200 worth of DAC/amp vs a $800 cable with $5000 worth of DAC/amp and heard no difference. Even with a $3 sound card vs. a $800 amplifier, the only difference was the slightest bit of increase in the volume of the low end due to the sound card being slightly under-powered. If cables make such a difference in terms of how electricity flow through them, people wouldn't be using any old cheap cable for electronics hookups or testing leads for even the most sensitive measurement devices like they do.

HAHAha lol please tell me what is the $200 dac model that performed like the $5000 dollar one? I will rush into buying right away. Tell us what the 5k was so I can also recommend that one to my worst enemy

 

[Elecroestatico]

You have just contradicted yourself. Don't you understand this??

no i dont

 

[oldmate]

what i mean is that from a dozen of dacs in a bling test I wont be able to pick what model im listening to,

So just to be clear you are saying you would not be able to tell the difference between equipment you are not familiar with?? Say a Realtek DAC and a SABRE ES9028PRO.

 

[oldmate]

Anyway, I'm done amusing myself this morning with you. Thanks for the "LOL's".

 

[Elecroestatico]

Great! A suggestion. Do you own one of these DACs that we could get access to for testing? When you say that they are different than consumer DACs, do you mean that all consumer DACs sound the same and just these sound different? That would make more sense to me.

Absolutly not... even among cheap dacs you can easily spot differences. At least I'm able to easily tell lets say the difference between a fiio e10k and a fiio 07 about same price ans same brand, totally different sound

 

[bigshot]

I'm pretty sure I'm not being clear . I don't mean different sound .. I mean like more sounds.. Missing sounds like details, ambient's cues and soundstage are not really considered a different sound..

But if we racked up two DACs... this one and say an iPod Classic right next to each other... playing the same file, level matched, A/B switched, blind... we would be able to hear a clear difference between them, right? That is what I'm looking for.

Do you have access to a DAC that you think sounds clearly different? Would you help us figure out what the difference is?

think of this as most dacs under lets say 500 will only give you 1080p now spend more and yes like he said more details, more control, better attacks, better separation of instruments, a more coherent soundstage, etc etc etc, like form 1080p to 4k sort of but you get the idea

I have this DAC/headphone amp...
https://www.oppodigital.com/headphone-amplifier-ha-1/

It sells for about $1400 used on eBay. It has a Sabre Reference ES9018 DAC in it. Does this qualify as having more detail, control, attacks, separation, soundstage, etc? I've already tested this one and it doesn't sound any different than any of my other sources. I'm looking for a DAC that sounds different.

what i mean is that from a dozen of dacs in a bling test I wont be able to pick what model im listening to, but I can easily tell that you have change the source, and since im familiar with my sources (dacs daps etc) I will be actually able to correctly tell what sorce you are playing me wiith a less ratio of success but still.

You've done this test? Great! Please tell me in detail about how you conducted it and what your specific results were. Do you have access to any DACs that sound clearly different that we could test?