[Articnoise]

Yes there is TOTL today, but unlikely to still be TOTL a year or two from now. OP ask in thread "How do you know when you have reached TOTL?"

Pretty sure he means how do you know when you've reached your end game. Reaching TOTL does not make sense. Its always changing. But your personal end-game is more likely to be static. I know mine is

I believe that where is a significant difference between TOTL and FOTM. Real TOTL gear is not changing very fast (accept maybe for some digital source products). TOTL amps, speakers, headphones, cars, watches etc. is still good and considered TOTL after much more than 2 years.

My guess is he meant that he liked to know with which gear he can stop looking for new better stuff, because he would have the best he are willing to pay for, but I can be wrong.

 

[scottcw]

My idea of TOTL is that other options may sound different, such as the differences between solid state and tubes, but not definitively better. Even within those broad categories, one tube amp may sound more neutral and another more lush and it falls to listener preference rather than actual equipment shortcomings.

For example, I have heard several headphones that are widely considered TOTL that I did not like because of my listening preferences. I did still recognize their objectively good qualities regardless of my subjective opinion.

 

[kid vic]

TOTL is whatever is the most expensive and highest spec'd item or system of the moment.

Endgame is the system that suits your music preference and assures you that no matter what you buy if it's "better" it won't be by much, but most likely it'll only be different.
Endgame is a near mythological place where you are too comfortable and enraptured to consider even a slight refinement to your setup.

TOTL changes with every few releases, endgame frees you from the cycle

 

[340519]

TOTL is whatever is the most expensive and highest spec'd item or system of the moment.

Endgame is the system that suits your music preference and assures you that no matter what you buy if it's "better" it won't be by much, but most likely it'll only be different.
Endgame is a near mythological place where you are too comfortable and enraptured to consider even a slight refinement to your setup.

TOTL changes with every few releases, endgame frees you from the cycle

That's where I'm at, nothing is better, only different. Trying to stop the madness.

 

[roskodan]

Noooooooooooo~~~~~~~

It's all about the journey folks... and the beauty of it is... it never, ever, ends

Only quitters can save themselves. But who wants to be a quitter ?

TOTL is just a market placement thingy. Some brands' TOTL lands under a grand, some in the small-pickle-syndrome-cure bracket, etc...

But ultimately I agree with others here, upgrade in terms of better sound does not necessarily mean upgrade in price .

 

[scottcw]

TOTL is whatever is the most expensive and highest spec'd item or system of the moment.

Endgame is the system that suits your music preference and assures you that no matter what you buy if it's "better" it won't be by much, but most likely it'll only be different.
Endgame is a near mythological place where you are too comfortable and enraptured to consider even a slight refinement to your setup.

TOTL changes with every few releases, endgame frees you from the cycle

I don't think that TOTL and endgame are necessarily different things.

 

[kid vic]

I don't think that TOTL and endgame are necessarily different things.

They certainly are.

You don't have to have the TOTL to be satisfied and feel you can only get different but not better. There are legions of people on head-fi who have paired the HD-6series headphones with something and found that more expensive gear doesn't have the same magic they crave.
Put another way, an HD800 is no longer TOTL yet it can be endgame for many. Conversely, there are people who own the Susvaras with a speaker amp and still listen to lesser dynamics or planars. The Arya isn't TOTL either but it makes a strong endgame argument for many people as well.
Now, endgame for someone can certainly be TOTL, but that doesn't mean endgame is TOTL by default.

Edit: Rethought below

 

[scottcw]

Now, endgame for someone can certainly be TOTL, but that doesn't mean endgame is TOTL by default.

You just proved my point. Endgame may or may not be TOTL. TOTL may or may not be endgame. Ergo, they are not necessarily different things. "Necessarily different things" means mutually exclusive, which, as you wrote, they are not. Thank you.

 

[kid vic]

You just proved my point. Endgame may or may not be TOTL. TOTL may or may not be endgame. Ergo, they are not necessarily different things. "Necessarily different things" means mutually exclusive, which, as you wrote, they are not. Thank you.

Ok, I see what your trying to say here and how we diverged.
My point is this: if you pursue TOTL as being where endgame is you may not be satisfied; you can certainly get TOTL stuff and feel satisfied but thats not the only way there.
In the most obsequious way they are not different its just that TOTL in and of itself is a neverending path (ie: the AKG K340 and Koss ESP-950 are no longer TOTL)

 

[hollowhills]

there is no end to anything. always different every day

 

[Currawong]

I'm just getting back into the hobby. When I was first in it, I felt very much at an end game state but I didn't feel comfortable having such expensive gear that I wasn't using often. I'm getting back in and buying up everything lol, but this is also due to being stuck in the house with covid-19 and I also want to figure out what is my new end game. I'll sell off quite a bit once I've determined that. I'm about 75% through that process. Once I'm done, I'll sell off what I don't need and the focus will mainly be on discovering new music.

I only have one major piece of advice. Thorough research and the ability to read between users' posts on here can GREATLY reduce FOMO. A lot of people have a somewhat ridiculous tie to their direct gear/brands (no offense, I know that's a part of the fun for some) and adds bias to their posts, recommendations, and critiques of product. This can also create FOMO as people at times act like you won't survive unless you upgrade or try something different lol. That plus individual listening preferences creates the need to really do thorough research to understand what might be for you. Everything I've bought over the past two months has sounded nearly, exactly as I thought it would and it's due to sifting through the above. (again, no offense at all to anyone.. just honest transparency)

Also, keep in mind this issue plagues just about every hobby. I see no problem with people wanting to treat it like a collector's hobby, especially when buying and selling makes it more affordable than it actually seems..

Great to see you back here. I don't think I've seen you post on the forums for many years!

I think the real key is system synergy. I keep stupidly changing things around, to the point that I should really keep notes when I hit upon a perfect combo. Of course, as soon as that happens, a tube fails or something!

 

[Whazzzup]

When you can’t pay you’re bills

 

[number1sixerfan]

Great to see you back here. I don't think I've seen you post on the forums for many years!

I think the real key is system synergy. I keep stupidly changing things around, to the point that I should really keep notes when I hit upon a perfect combo. Of course, as soon as that happens, a tube fails or something!

Good to see you as well, I definitely remember seeing your name around here all the time! And I agree, that's true too.. and sometimes you can't get all the equipment at the same time so it takes long to get there.

 

[bagwell359]

You start with music and an idea of producing it at home for entertainment. If you are a seeker, and pay attention to dealers, reviewers, "friends", pretty soon it can become an addiction. Step up for a new cartridge, etc.

If your appetite becomes greater than your budget, you start modifying the room, the transducer, RFI cures for the electronics.

Ideally you get a set-up that does what you want. That's the key moment. Stop with reviewers, dealers, keeping up with the Jonses, and just immerse in what your first goal was, hopefully with a better rig, and not with a massive hole in your pocket.

It took me about 30 years to get out of my room stereo fetish. EDIT ADD: Oh there were times, I thought I was there for six months or a year or even two. 7 times, only to try again.

I can feel the headphone one is going to be much shorter - maybe like 7 years (5 so far).