[TubeStack]

I just Mp3gained my entire music library at the suggested 89 db and I'm finding that to play Metallica, AC/DC, etc, as it should be played (ie LOUD), I now have to completely crank my systems nearly to max (both home stereo and iPod/headphone-amp setup).

Having the stereo receiver, or iPod/headphone amp for that matter, so close to being maxed-out seems to bring a harsh shrillness to the overall tone, in both setups.

I don't know a lot about how far you can push a stereo reciever and still maintain ideal tone, warmth, etc, or a headphone amp.

My receiver is a Harmon Kardon 3390, my headphone amp is a PA2V2. Can these operate at near max level and consistently maintain their sound quality?

Any info or guidance in this area would be greatly appreciated!

 

[TubeStack]

*bump*

 

[Lazarus Short]

It's a complicated question having to do with the size of the room, the efficiency of the speakers, the power of the amp section, and probably other factors I am not recalling just now. A well-built amp with lots of watts, a robust power supply, and a good amount of headroom should be able to juice a speaker very loud without the SQ going south. If you can get your hands on (maybe borrow) some good amp, connect it to your receiver via the tape outs and see if it makes a difference. If so, you might consider the Nakamichi receiver (don't recall the model #) with the Stasis technology they got from the Threshold company. The Proton 930/940/950 receivers are a possibility too, as they share the same technology with their sexier and well-respected power amps. Whatever, there's a world of powerful receivers out there...

Laz

 

[Uncle Erik]

Pretty much what Laz said. There are a number of factors and it even matters how robustly built the amp's power supply is. Without knowing your speakers, room, more about your amp, it's hard to say.

But that harsh shrillness you hear is probably distortion brought on from pushing your setup too hard. Look for more efficient speakers if you want to keep using the HK receiver. You might be able to find a pair of used Klipsch speakers at a good price - those tend to be highly efficient so you wouldn't have to push your receiver as hard.

 

[TubeStack]

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

My speakers are Polk Audio R50s, with a Polk PSW-303 subwoofer.

I think I'm going to look into buying the more powerful version of my receiver, the HK 3490.

It's 120Wx2, whereas the the 3390 I have now is 80Wx2.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TubeStack /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think I'm going to look into buying the more powerful version of my receiver, the HK 3490. It's 120Wx2, whereas the the 3390 I have now is 80Wx2.

For a while I owned a Pioneer quad receiver which had 80 wpc when bridged to stereo. I used it with at least two different sets of speakers, and it sounded like it had bottomless reserves of clean power. He, he, old quad gear which can be bridged back to two channel is a very neglected area of audio. In case you're interested, I think the model was QX-949, but it was ugly.

What I'm getting to here is that your HK with 80 wpc should have sufficient power for most any speaker. If the SQ is suffering, the receiver might need cleaning or repair, the source may have distortion, or the speakers are half-blown. Perhaps foam surrounds are rotted or a tweeter is shot? Have you done any troubleshooting??

Oh, wait, I just took another look at your first post. Did you mean to say that the MP3's are recorded at 89 dB or -89dB? Whichever, if you are having to crank things up almost to the max, your amp section may be going into clipping and thus the distortion and bad SQ. If the source line level is so low, 120 wpc will give you surprisingly little more than 80 wpc. It's like diminishing returns. Maybe you should play around with the dB levels of the MP3's and find what suits your system. The "suggested 89 db" is just that - a suggestion.

Laz

 

[iriverdude]

How long is a piece of string? Too many variables to give a definite answer, but some variables are

Amp, power output
Ability to drive low impedance loads
Speakers, power handling
Speakers impedance, and impedance along the frequency response
Speaker sensivity
Speaker- frequency response
Material being played, areas of frequencies
Signal - full range or filtered, if filtered at what crossover and at what slope? If full range the interaction of the speakers?
Distortion, is it running into it, and if so at what point? Is it because speakers are hard to drive (impedance) or more power (low sensivitiy) or a combination or mixture of both, ie speaker could be 4ohm but have 100dB sensivity, or 8Ohm but 80dB sensivity, or other combinations thereof.
Any EQ or PEQ applied?
Size of room and distance to speakers?
Room gain?
Frequency and gain of note being played? Any infra-sonic frequencies being played? Ability for amp to filter out, or speakers to play frequencies or the harmonics of those frequencies, without causing distortion? How lower frequencies increase distortion as volume increases, and distortion in the amp as you do so?

 

[jilgiljongiljing]

I have a 50wpc Onkyo and I can barely make it to even half the volume. You seem to have mp3 gained the source way too low or something else is wrong in your system. Maybe you are connected to the phono input and its using protection and cutting off the volume (has happened to me on my receiver)

What about regular sources like cd's or television, do you still have to go all the way up in volume. You shouldnt have to go more than 40-50% to get really loud at close range for normal sources like cd's. I dont think upgrading the receiver is necessary, the HK's are known to be pretty good and I don't think power is the issue here, something is just not working the way it should, or the source is way too low.

 

[islewind]

Your source file gain is waaay too low. The question of how high you can turn up an amp and have it sound fine does depend on many factors, but is not really the issue here. As the previous poster said, 40-50% volume with normal efficiency speakers should be rocking the house. A McIntosh or Bryston amp will sound great at 90% volume, but if your fix your source file gain, you won't need to worry about switching amps.

 

[TubeStack]

Thanks again for all the input and info.

I should clarify, I am getting a decent amount of volume, in general.

I just like to play Metallica, Rage Against The Machine, etc, at extreme, silly-to-ridiculous levels of volume, and this current set-up/situation isn't really putting that kind of sound out, at least not without being totally cranked and having some general harshness at the upper-most levels.

I used to have an old Kenwood receiver that was 100Wx2, and I did notice a fairly significant power/volume drop when I upgraded to the 80Wx2 HK unit. I can get it to near the same levels, but not without some shrillness and having the volume jacked right up, leaving no headroom or breathing space.

Anyways, I'm currently re-mp3gaining the above mentioned heavier bands' material, to help give it a bit more oomph and crunch. May eventually pick up the more powerful HK reciever. Thanks again for the input.

 

[endless402]

question is how are u connecting to the receiver?

 

[Drag0n]

The real question is......WHY DO YOU NEED IT SO LOUD???
I think youll soon go deaf and wont have to worry about it, but if you want LOUD at a cheap price, look on Ebay or some such site for a Carver amp, maybe an A-760x , or a TFM-75, or TFM-55, or even a TFM-25.

Theyre inexpensive because theyre no longer made, but theyre LOUD and clear and punchy for rock.

But seriously, watch your hearing. Once you screw it up, you cant go back and say youre sorry and start over again.

You might also want to look into a set of very efficiant Klipsch speakers, or Paradigms.
An old set of Realistic Mach 2's would work also, or Cerwin Vega AT15's.
Maybe a set of concert bin speakers. Gemini/ Gem Sound, JBL, Carvin, Peavy.....(DJ Speakers)


If youd rather have a reciever....look on Ebay for old Pioneer recievers from like the early 1980's or a Realistic STA2100.
Kenwoods,Sansui,Marantz, work also. Some Technics models, a Carver 2000 reciever is 200w per ch, i have one. It cranks!

 

[sunseeker888]

My old Pioneer SX-1050 had near limitless amounts of power. But it was vintage so it may not be your cup of tea.

 

[Alai]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarus Short /img/forum/go_quote.gif What I'm getting to here is that your HK with 80 wpc should have sufficient power for most any speaker. If the SQ is suffering, the receiver might need cleaning or repair, the source may have distortion, or the speakers are half-blown. Perhaps foam surrounds are rotted or a tweeter is shot? Have you done any troubleshooting?? Oh, wait, I just took another look at your first post. Did you mean to say that the MP3's are recorded at 89 dB or -89dB? Whichever, if you are having to crank things up almost to the max, your amp section may be going into clipping and thus the distortion and bad SQ. If the source line level is so low, 120 wpc will give you surprisingly little more than 80 wpc. It's like diminishing returns. Maybe you should play around with the dB levels of the MP3's and find what suits your system. The "suggested 89 db" is just that - a suggestion. Laz

Ehhh... Define most any speaker. I know if I ran my Polk SDA SRS 2 with 80 wpc, I would probably blow out my tweeter eventually and possibly kill the amplifier (at higher volumes). AKA 80 wpc would be a severe undercutting of power and would cause clipping fairly early.

 

[chesebert]

depends on how much power each driver in ur spkr can take. you will melt your voice coil if you put above-recommended power for prolonged period into any single driver