dericchan1
100+ Head-Fier
Folks, there is absolutely no point to even discuss another software in a HQplayer thread. I do not care and do not need to know what the other piece of software does.
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I would agree for a standalone program, but here there is history of these two programs being used together. Knowing how one program might influence the behavior of another is important to know.Folks, there is absolutely no point to even discuss another software in a HQplayer thread
Then I would say don’t do it, just stick with using hqplayerI would agree for a standalone program, but here there is history of these two programs being used together. Knowing how one program might influence the behavior of another is important to know.
Those spectral images on the above pictures and ringing are not the same thing. Spectral images exist in frequency domain and ringing appears in time domain.I've been thinking about this point. You posted this to demonstrate that since the digitised music signal has infinite bandwith, the dac filter will necessarily have to ring to turn it into a band-limited signal again.
The paradoxical thing here is that we have an infinitely ringing perfect filter
I’m the same way. That digging deeper for me involves many things including MEASUREMENTS to help me understand why I’m hearing what I’m hearing. By seeing how a filter or modulator behaves I can focus on others that perform similar.My analysis of the situation is that some group of people choose products because of measurements and assume that all the people do the same. That's why we have arguments like: "you think you hear x, because you've been influenced by y". However, for many this is about sound. When I hear about some new toy in town, I get intrigued and try it in my system. If I don't like it, I move on. If there is something I like, then I start to dig deeper on what are the potential variables that are in play as those lead me towards the system that best matches my preferences.
No I wasn’t. My use of HQPlayer has been for PCM scaling using sinc-M or sinc-L with NOS mode turned on. I only occasionally used it for DSD scaling but never liked what I heard.The point being you admitted to trashing DSD yet were listening to it the whole time. Lol
your dac converts any incoming signal to n multi bit SDM (dsd)No I wasn’t. My use of HQPlayer has been for PCM scaling using sinc-M or sinc-L with NOS mode turned on. I only occasionally used it for DSD scaling but never liked what I heard.
Why would misrepresent what I was doing? Rhetorical question. It’s obvious why you would.
You also misrepresented what was posted on the PGGB website by omitting text that doesn’t support your narrative. Unbelievable.
Thanks for your reply! I've already asked Jussi this some time ago and he replied that you cannot compare theoretical perfect signals and real world signals in this way if I remember correctly.Those spectral images on the above pictures and ringing are not the same thing. Spectral images exist in frequency domain and ringing appears in time domain.
One cannot avoid spectral images (or replicas, that's matter of terminology) of audio band when using digitally sampled signal. Existence of spectral images is the reason why oversampling and analog filtering is used. Oversampling moves the nearest image far from audio band so that DAC analog filter can easier remove these unwanted images. Analog filter does not introduce ringing - that's about digital domain.
Digital filtering cannot filter out spectral images. When you apply a digital filter, the filtered result in base band area will get replicated in spectral images too. So the only way to get rid of spectral images is filtering in analog domain.
Ringing is result of band limiting, which is necessary part of resampling. Ringing occurs when a fast transient exceeding Nyquist rate is filtered out. The first usual source of ringing are delta sigma ADCs. They generate high rate sigma delta modulated signal, which si then still internally downsampled (decimated) to lower PCM rate. The second place where downsampling is usually performed is mastering to lower sample rate format. In the case of 44.1k the filter transition band is very narrow (22.05 - 20 = 2.05 kHz) and thus the filter needs to be very steep if we don't want to limit content below 20kHz. Steeper is the filter in frequency domain more it rings in time domain.
I will rather let Jussi to respond this ...
Yes... D/A stage in the most narrow sense creates signal which already appears in analog domain, but it yet needs to be filtered out by analog reconstruction filter to limit output to area of our interest (audio band). Unfiltered out of band content could influence downstream equipment like class D amplifiers - it potentionally could intermodulate into audio band, or cause some heat or oscilations.On to your other points, a dac uses a reconstruction filter to take the digitized signal and filter out the spectral images so that the baseband signal remains right?
The term ringing exists in analog domain too, but probably in a different sense than in digital domain, where it is tightly bound to sample rate. No sample rate exists in analog domain. I will leave it to @jlaako to answer your interesting and surprising question.It's true that filters only ring when encountering content above their cutoff frequency, but that's exactly what happens when a dac reconstruction filter encounters the spectral images no?
The paradoxical thing here is that we have an infinitely ringing perfect filter that reconstructs the original signal exactly, it must logically follow that this ringing is part of the reconstruction or in other words adding lots of ringing together gives you the not-ringing original signal.
I'd say a dacs reconstruction filter rings by design, but maybe I'm misunderstanding something here..
I thought the defining trait of a Nos dac is they lack such a reconstruction filter.
EDIT: I've now tried installing Roon and HQPlayer on another computer and finally managed to see my Holo Red (with an older version of RopieeeXL) over the network. I tried switching back to my main computer and still I see nothing here. I can't see any firewall blocks on my HQPlayer either.
Hooray! Thanks for your advice, the outbound packets look to have been routing to the Local Area Connection instead of Wifi. Disabling the Local Area Connection fixed it!First thing to check is that firewall is not blocking the traffic, and that you have only one network interface active (Control Panel -> Network connections -> Manage network connections). Main reason for not finding a NAA is that outbound multicast packets end up on wrong interface. They should usually go where your default route is (internet connection). But sometimes with multiple active network interfaces the multicast discovery packets end up in wrong interface. Another alternative is that the response is not getting back due to firewall.
Hooray! Thanks for your advice, the outbound packets look to have been routing to the Local Area Connection instead of Wifi. Disabling the Local Area Connection fixed it!