[pevsfreedom]

I know there's a lot of threads on this but help me out here

I tested the 600 vs a bunch of different headphones and it won out. I listened to a full vinyl album last night on them though, and walked away with pretty intense ringing/ear fatigue. Wasn't super loud.

As I was listening - to a sort of shrill album either way (Uriah Heep - Magician's Birthday) I found I was wanting more bass, and less treble. The HD600 soundstage also kind of presented itself as being... very narrow. So the HD650's popped up as addressing those 3 issues, to some small degree anyways. Then of course the HD6xx pops up, which I see conflicting reports on if it's the exact same as the 650 or somehow different.

I bought a pair (600 to 650) to compare, and for the life of me, I can't hear a difference. I listen to rock through the turntable primarily. I would use for guitar recording/editing sometimes. Kind of wondering if my S501 amp is partly to blame? It's new to me and I guess sounds very digital, and I kind of want an integrated tube amp, but they a bit too rich for my blood at the moment (for decent one).

I can't make up my mind. One's gotta go back. I have a Hifiman Sundara on the way too, just to try something else in the price range.

 

[Shazb0t]

In my experience, the new production 600, 650, and 6XX all sound incredibly similar. Basically within unit to unit variation and age of pads. The 650 and 6XX are definitely the same headphones. Some here will say the 600 has slightly different tuning, but they're all very closely related siblings. Good luck on a controlled listening test. I highly doubt that your S501 is the problem. If you're getting ear pain or fatigue from listening to them I would try EQ first and if it continues I would move on to something else.

 

[Exekuhtor]

Theoretically the 600 (6xx = 650, 100% the same driver, only prettier chassis) is more neutral, the 6xx / 650 a bit warmer. I have not heard anything else than the 6xx but i'm also not a big fan of it (i think it's overhyped), the sundara blows it straight out of the water in terms of technicalities. Yes, there are genres where the sundara can get too bright, the 6xx is always leaned back. It's good on tubes, that's why i keep it (and because resell value is not that high). It's also comfortable. But at 500€ straight from sennheiser i would have been even more disappointed, but oh well, everyone is different and the audio journey really began for me after listening to the sundara which blew me away. The 6xx has a very small Soundstage, 3-blob imaging, a not satisfying bass and too smooth treble, you get good mids for that, wow...
For 200$ from drop i find it aight with tubes.

Don't be afraid to dislike hyped products, the sundara basically sounds like the opposite of it.

:edit:
If these sennheisers are too bright for you and you want less / the same treble, then you might have to hear an audeze (the entry LCD-2C should be appealing), the sundara is neutral-bright tuned.

 

[KPzypher]

I bought a pair (600 to 650) to compare, and for the life of me, I can't hear a difference.

Easy. Keep whichever one is cheaper. If you can't tell the difference, what anyone else thinks is irrelevant.
With that said, i personally prefer HD600.

 

[kman1211]

Theoretically the 600 (6xx = 650, 100% the same driver, only prettier chassis) is more neutral, the 6xx / 650 a bit warmer. I have not heard anything else than the 6xx but i'm also not a big fan of it (i think it's overhyped), the sundara blows it straight out of the water in terms of technicalities. Yes, there are genres where the sundara can get too bright, the 6xx is always leaned back. It's good on tubes, that's why i keep it (and because resell value is not that high). It's also comfortable. But at 500€ straight from sennheiser i would have been even more disappointed, but oh well, everyone is different and the audio journey really began for me after listening to the sundara which blew me away. The 6xx has a very small Soundstage, 3-blob imaging, a not satisfying base and too smooth treble, you get good mids for that, wow...
For 200$ from drop i find it aight with tubes.

Don't be afraid to dislike hyped products, the sundara basically sounds like the opposite of it.

I always found the HD 650/6XX overhyped myself, I thought the HD 600 sounded better than it, had better imaging, and sounded more natural. Something about the HD 650/6XX grates on me long term whereas the HD 600 grew on me over time. Though I personally like it's more bashed sibling headphone the HD 660 S much more than either the HD 600 or HD 650. It actually has good imaging, I personally think it's more resolving, and has snappier more engaging transients so it's not as mellow sounding as it's older siblings.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Integrated amp HP output is usually some cheap op-amp add on, this is probably what holding back HD600/HD650 from showing their true colors.
I always liked HD650 better, by a mile. But it needs some juice to not sound muddy.

 

[fragzone]

Get a 6xx and be done with it unless you can get the 650 for a great deal because you will at least get a nicer looking headphone with a better cable in that case.

There is really very little tangible difference between the three and the measurements show that. The godly midrange is what you will get, any other differences can be eqd in. Like myself, I eq in the bass shelf in oratory1990s recommendations, and leave everything else as stock.

 

[mayurs]

I currently have a 650 and a 600 and imo the 600 sounds better than the 650 on everything except on my Feliks Euforia, where the 650 scales and betters the 600 on every parameter that I can think of. This isn't surprising at all since 650 has legendary scaling abilities and will probably get better on even better tube amps. So best to stick with a 600 if you are not going to get a capable tube amp in the future for the 650.

 

[HWB3]

I have the 6XX's and Sundara's. Of the two, I like the Sundara's better. Just a better sound for me.

 

[pevsfreedom]

In my experience, the new production 600, 650, and 6XX all sound incredibly similar. Basically within unit to unit variation and age of pads. The 650 and 6XX are definitely the same headphones. Some here will say the 600 has slightly different tuning, but they're all very closely related siblings. Good luck on a controlled listening test. I highly doubt that your S501 is the problem. If you're getting ear pain or fatigue from listening to them I would try EQ first and if it continues I would move on to something else.

I tried the 600s vs a few other headphones and it won out. But yeah the ear fatigue is real. That's why I was hoping the 650's might be a bit better. As for EQ all I have is the bass/treble knobs on the S501. I'm trying to figure out what "turnover frequency" is in regards to those knobs, because apparently it's set for 400Hz/3.5kHz. I am wondering if that's all frequencies below/above those points or those points exactly.

Theoretically the 600 (6xx = 650, 100% the same driver, only prettier chassis) is more neutral, the 6xx / 650 a bit warmer. I have not heard anything else than the 6xx but i'm also not a big fan of it (i think it's overhyped), the sundara blows it straight out of the water in terms of technicalities. Yes, there are genres where the sundara can get too bright, the 6xx is always leaned back. It's good on tubes, that's why i keep it (and because resell value is not that high). It's also comfortable. But at 500€ straight from sennheiser i would have been even more disappointed, but oh well, everyone is different and the audio journey really began for me after listening to the sundara which blew me away. The 6xx has a very small Soundstage, 3-blob imaging, a not satisfying bass and too smooth treble, you get good mids for that, wow...
For 200$ from drop i find it aight with tubes.

Don't be afraid to dislike hyped products, the sundara basically sounds like the opposite of it.

:edit:
If these sennheisers are too bright for you and you want less / the same treble, then you might have to hear an audeze (the entry LCD-2C should be appealing), the sundara is neutral-bright tuned.

I loved the mids on the sennheisers which I think is how I ended up with them. I think the LCD-2c is probably above my price point for headphones. I'm primarily a speaker listener. The soundstage is pretty terrible though, so I'm excited to see the difference in the Sundara's. I read they are kind of a problem quality control wise, but who knows.

Integrated amp HP output is usually some cheap op-amp add on, this is probably what holding back HD600/HD650 from showing their true colors.
I always liked HD650 better, by a mile. But it needs some juice to not sound muddy.

I've kind of read this as well. I've read some people plug $2k+ headphones into the S501 amp headphone jack and have no problems - other people say to route in a headphone amp. I had a Schitt Magni but returned it. I think the amp is pretty capable though, it drives them at horrifically loud volumes if you want.

Get a 6xx and be done with it unless you can get the 650 for a great deal because you will at least get a nicer looking headphone with a better cable in that case.

There is really very little tangible difference between the three and the measurements show that. The godly midrange is what you will get, any other differences can be eqd in. Like myself, I eq in the bass shelf in oratory1990s recommendations, and leave everything else as stock.

Makes sense. My only EQ option right now is the bass/treble on the S501.

I currently have a 650 and a 600 and imo the 600 sounds better than the 650 on everything except on my Feliks Euforia, where the 650 scales and betters the 600 on every parameter that I can think of. This isn't surprising at all since 650 has legendary scaling abilities and will probably get better on even better tube amps. So best to stick with a 600 if you are not going to get a capable tube amp in the future for the 650.

I was almost looking at selling the S501 and getting some kind of integrated tube amp instead. Was looking at Willsenton R8 KT88 just because I am not a super fan of the S501 so far... though I don't know if it would sound a ton better? From what I've read the 600 pairs better with the S501 and the 650 would pair better with tubes, as you kind of mentioned.

I have the 6XX's and Sundara's. Of the two, I like the Sundara's better. Just a better sound for me.

I'm excited to try those out.

 

[Exekuhtor]

If you like the sundara but the tuning is a too bright for you and you would like more bass then there are other, cheaper, a bit more unconventional options.
The clear upgrade path would be audeze, but there are other headphones aswell. The Monoprice M1060 comes to mind, i won't give a general recommendation for them but they are cheaper than an used LCD-2c.
You have to read more into the hobby for that (google LCD-2c vs M1060 etc). The "easy" recommendations around ~300 bucks are always sennheiser and hifiman, but it doesn't mean it's the only stuff / the best suited for you.

 

[pevsfreedom]

I've noticed. I also wear glasses so that kind of comes into it as well.

 

[garlicky]

I tried the 600s vs a few other headphones and it won out. But yeah the ear fatigue is real. That's why I was hoping the 650's might be a bit better. As for EQ all I have is the bass/treble knobs on the S501. I'm trying to figure out what "turnover frequency" is in regards to those knobs, because apparently it's set for 400Hz/3.5kHz. I am wondering if that's all frequencies below/above those points or those points exactly.



I loved the mids on the sennheisers which I think is how I ended up with them. I think the LCD-2c is probably above my price point for headphones. I'm primarily a speaker listener. The soundstage is pretty terrible though, so I'm excited to see the difference in the Sundara's. I read they are kind of a problem quality control wise, but who knows.



I've kind of read this as well. I've read some people plug $2k+ headphones into the S501 amp headphone jack and have no problems - other people say to route in a headphone amp. I had a Schitt Magni but returned it. I think the amp is pretty capable though, it drives them at horrifically loud volumes if you want.


Makes sense. My only EQ option right now is the bass/treble on the S501.



I was almost looking at selling the S501 and getting some kind of integrated tube amp instead. Was looking at Willsenton R8 KT88 just because I am not a super fan of the S501 so far... though I don't know if it would sound a ton better? From what I've read the 600 pairs better with the S501 and the 650 would pair better with tubes, as you kind of mentioned.



I'm excited to try those out.

It won't be 400hz and 3.5khz exactly. From 400hz and below the frequencies will taper off gradually.
From 3.5khz and above the frequencies will also taper off gradually.

 

[garlicky]

Easy. Keep whichever one is cheaper. If you can't tell the difference, what anyone else thinks is irrelevant.
With that said, i personally prefer HD600.

Great advice.

 

[pevsfreedom]

It won't be 400hz and 3.5khz exactly. From 400hz and below the frequencies will taper off gradually.
From 3.5khz and above the frequencies will also taper off gradually.

Ok, so from 400hz downwards it'll kind of slope if I lower it? I read somewhere else it was only at that frequency which seemed wrong.

I think with the S501 amp and the HD600s... if I raise the bass, lower the treble, and drop the "mid loudness" (dips 1kHz by 3db each click) - they actually come out sounding pretty nice for casual listening, and I can hit "pure direct" for more analytical ear ringing listening.