iFi audio iDSD Diablo - A portable reference done our way!
Nov 28, 2023 at 9:32 PM Post #2,956 of 2,988
I have sold and replaced my ifi diablo with a chord mojo2/poly, and will probably continue criticizing those devices in their respective threads. it's been an interesting journey. Thank you @Thorsten Loesch for your openness.

Also thank you to the various (ex)iFi representatives, I hope the company will at some point realise that marketing alone doesn't keep you in the game, and will make your job easier by being truthful from the very start.

cheers,
-CH23
 
Nov 29, 2023 at 5:13 AM Post #2,958 of 2,988
Are you planning on criticising the performance of the devices or just the marketing ?
It is both I guess. “Lying” regarding specs will influence the objective perception, and not live up to the correct expected performance….

Quiet few people have mentioned and emphasized this.

iFi has still not addressed this.
 
Nov 29, 2023 at 7:41 AM Post #2,959 of 2,988
Are you planning on criticising the performance of the devices or just the marketing ?
I saw your message pre-edit. Please don't get me wrong: I don't criticise because i'm bitter. I do it because I hope the products and companies (and people) I criticise will improve. iFi does not seem interested in doing so, but I have no skin in this game anymore.

I will criticise functionality, marketing, and broken promises, as I have done with the Diablo too.

-CH23
 
Nov 29, 2023 at 12:57 PM Post #2,960 of 2,988
Fair enough, but I think that a bit much is made about the whole 5 Watts thing and the way it was measured. I seem to recall Thorsten even indicated that the measurement approach used for the advertising had a degree of legitimacy and was essentially the absolute highest possible output that could be used without in fact outright ‘lying’.

I don’t care that they used that approach in the marketing because the Diablo still does a great job regardless of what a number on paper says. I seem to be in a distinct minority on that stance though, most folks seem to want to blow it up into some sort of drama.

In terms of subjective performance. I compared my Diablo against my Schiit Asgard 3 and it was notably more powerful with no distortion in a 300 ohm load (HD600). I asked Golden Sound to check the power into 300 ohms and he confirmed that the Diablo did indeed live up to the specs into a high impedance load and that spec was indeed higher than the Asgard 3. So a small battery powered device did indeed outdo a much larger mains powered amplifier, just as the specs indicated it did.

There was little or nothing made about the specs in that scenario only that 5 watts was incorrect. In fact after further conversation between GS and Thorsten on the Diablo 2 thread Thorsten discussed very specific details of the power and it was shown that the Diablo in fact had something like 2.25 watts maximum into a lower impedance under normal measurement methods. No that isn’t 5 watts but it is about twice what Golden Sound indicated and is still an awful lot of power from a portable device.

Anyway, I have said my opinion a few times, I will leave it at that.
 
Nov 29, 2023 at 1:55 PM Post #2,961 of 2,988
Fair enough, but I think that a bit much is made about the whole 5 Watts thing and the way it was measured.

Yes and no.

At issue here are a few things.

Like, the way iFi approach to marketing shifted from honest, customer focused and taking if necessary the high road on popular but pointless topics and doing what resulted in a better product, if less fashionable, the kind of integrity and customer focus the brand was build upon, to more and more focused on fashion and "fluff" instead of fundamentals.

At one point the people behind iFi and AMR sat together and agreed to have among other rules to greenlight products that they would be products we would not only be happy, but eager to buy with our own money AND feel we got good Value for money. Non of current iFi product would have passed this test.

To me the Diablo and it's history are a key example. The Diablo and Diablo 2 are products that are realistically worse in many areas of Sound quality and objective performance to the iDSD micro they derive and unnecessarily so and they are equally technically outdated without good reason. I'm always one to champion "old but excellent" over fashion, if it delivers the goods.

The Diablo (no comments on "2", not my design, if still heavily derived from my work) for example should have stayed single ended. It would have had enough output power for anything, the change to balanced added zip to performance, but cynically panders to a false belief that "balanced is better" and seeks to monetise this.

The Diablo and many later iFi products should have switched from DSD1793 to PCM1795, the work to have this sound better, perform better at a nominal extra cost was already done. Of course, the DSD1793 is better than most think from looking at paper.

Given the way crossfeed and bass boost are implemented in the iDSD micro and derivatives that retain it (and other ifi products); that is without extra circuitry added except a few resistros and capacitors if ensbled, but instead wrapped into the design transparently; there was no point to remove these features, except cynical pandering to those who falsely believe "features make bad sound" and seeks to monetise this.

Instead of spending some extra development time to sort out once and for all the volume control issue (and go with the solution from the x-Series which was a very long hanging fruit) an obsolete and problematic solution was intentionally retained, in order to turn out more products, not better products and then and seeks to monetise this.

The end result is an unnecessarily suboptimal product with little to recommend it over the original source (iDSD micro) and lost useful features being marketed with questionable numbers as premium product and top of the line.

The Diablo is not a bad product, just, it is a product that should have been much better and less expensive and if added to with advertising and marketing that at least raises questions... Nuff sed.

Well it seems to me that current iFi/AMR (it seems AMR has died anyway) has gone half circle, to be the polar opposite of what it was created to deliver to customers, has jettisoned all the ideals and integrity and and has turned strictly into a means to extract the most profit for customers without much care for the products customers receive, instead of giving them fair value and product that gives them value for money, great sound and satisfaction.

Perhaps that is what it takes to be successful. To me, it's a sad outcome to the venture I gave up much to be part of, but also learned much, had an amazing time, was allowed to realise dreams and hopefully give joy to many people. But hey, that's just me. And I'm fine anyway.

Let people judge the value of what current iFi tries to sell them and how on the merits of the products, the customer service and approach to customers and ethics as it stands now.

If the product, customer service and company ethics makes you happy, be happy.



And that is all I have to say about that!

images - 2023-11-30T014615.744.jpeg


Thor
 
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Nov 29, 2023 at 2:14 PM Post #2,962 of 2,988
........................ there was no point to remove these features, except cynical pandering to those who falsely believe "features make bad sound" and seeks to monetise this.

I don't want to be argumentative Thorsten, I can't really debate the other parts of your post because they are largely opinion but I felt I needed to say something on this comment.

Isn't that just market and making a bushiness decision in an aim to sell more products, giving the customer what they wanted ?

You indicated that the Diablo was aimed at the Chinese market more or less exclusively and the Chinese didn't want XBass and XSpace despite that somebody else in iFi might think they are the best thing since sliced bread. If you are aiming at a market and that market doesn't want X, Y and Z isn't it just logical to ditch X, Y and Z.

And they wanted balanced so that is what they got. I wonder how many Diablo sold in China, was it a sound business plan in the end ?

Respectfully.
 
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Nov 29, 2023 at 2:27 PM Post #2,963 of 2,988
Hey folks, as always I read all these comments (when possible) and always find value in some parts of most posts. Let's try to remember that we are in this particular thread to discuss the original Diablo.

If you would like to discuss A, B, or C relating to your thoughts on what any company has done or not done to your expectations there is always the option to start a new thread and carry that on there.

I am of course not referring to folks' individual thoughts on a feature or measurement of the product itself having or not having a feature, but in the end if the product has or has not you speak with your wallet.

And as always let's continue being respectful while sticking to the Diablo and Direct comparisons to other products of its kind!

Cheers!!
 
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Nov 29, 2023 at 2:34 PM Post #2,964 of 2,988
You indicated that the Diablo was aimed at the Chinese market more or less exclusively

Nope, the "Red Label" which was shelved and eventually years later was unshelved and became the Diablo was aimed at the Chinese market, or rather was specified and designed to meet the stated requirements of a Chinese sales manager who claimed that the iDSD micro could not sell in china because it had the wrong features and sound.

The Diablo was a sideways turn that attempted to turn the "shelved" project into revenue.

Respectfully.

Respectfully, if you turn these off, you create open circuits where previously additional resistor's and capacitors where in circuit. In other words, there is no difference between switching them off or removing them physically.

Just saying.

Thor

PS, doing it in such a way took a lot of time to figure out how to do it. So it's not easy, but yes, it is.
 
Nov 29, 2023 at 3:05 PM Post #2,965 of 2,988
Nope, the "Red Label" which was shelved and eventually years later was unshelved and became the Diablo was aimed at the Chinese market, or rather was specified and designed to meet the stated requirements of a Chinese sales manager who claimed that the iDSD micro could not sell in china because it had the wrong features and sound.

The Diablo was a sideways turn that attempted to turn the "shelved" project into revenue.



Respectfully, if you turn these off, you create open circuits where previously additional resistor's and capacitors where in circuit. In other words, there is no difference between switching them off or removing them physically.

Just saying.

Thor

PS, doing it in such a way took a lot of time to figure out how to do it. So it's not easy, but yes, it is.

Thanks Thor,

I understand that the features make no difference if simply turned off but, regardless, it seems that the device was initially aimed at a certain market and that is how the device came to be what it is. How the sales was eventually managed and what it was called and where it was eventually sold is another matter.

My only point (and again I don't mean to come across as argumentative it just seems logical to me) sales seemed to be the motivation and that seems perfectly fair to me, iFi want to sell products so the products have the features that a market wants.

As I said earlier, I would imagine the number of people on Head Fi bitc...ing about the volume knob and now the lack of a genuine 5 watts is tiny compared to the world wide sales and the sales happen because it is a fundamentally good device.

Anyway, nice chatting again, I appreciate your willingness to discuss stuff with a nobody from the other side of the planet.
 
Nov 30, 2023 at 4:08 AM Post #2,966 of 2,988
Fair enough, but I think that a bit much is made about the whole 5 Watts thing and the way it was measured

It seems I did not make my reasons for trading in the Diablo clear:
-it was sold with the promise of driving anything from 'the most sensitive IEM to the most needy headphones'.
-it has issues with the volume control
-I noticed that the amplifier section with another DAC(teac UD501) was night/day difference compared to the internal DAC (personal nitpick, but did annoy me)

My 2 usecases are exactly that. IEMs and full size headphones. couldn't use it with my IEMs because of the volume control.

iFi's response to this has been far from what it should have been, and I even bought the 4.4mm IEMatch, which was still not enough to have proper control for my IEMs.

This, together with the lack of support their representatives seem(ed?) to get, just left a bad taste in my mouth. the 5 watts thing never really bothered me much because it was powerful enough for my fullsized headphones.
 
Nov 30, 2023 at 12:58 PM Post #2,967 of 2,988
It seems I did not make my reasons for trading in the Diablo clear:
-it was sold with the promise of driving anything from 'the most sensitive IEM to the most needy headphones'.
-it has issues with the volume control
-I noticed that the amplifier section with another DAC(teac UD501) was night/day difference compared to the internal DAC (personal nitpick, but did annoy me)

My 2 usecases are exactly that. IEMs and full size headphones. couldn't use it with my IEMs because of the volume control.

iFi's response to this has been far from what it should have been, and I even bought the 4.4mm IEMatch, which was still not enough to have proper control for my IEMs.

This, together with the lack of support their representatives seem(ed?) to get, just left a bad taste in my mouth. the 5 watts thing never really bothered me much because it was powerful enough for my fullsized headphones.

Fair enough,

You must have had a shocker of a bad pot because mine is absolutely fine with even my most sensitive IEM out if the 4.4mm with no IEMatch. On ECO of course.

The IEMatch should make a huge difference to the output, if the pot on your unit was so bad the IEMatch didn’t fix the issue it really must have been appallingly bad. If so I can see your frustration.
 
Nov 30, 2023 at 1:06 PM Post #2,968 of 2,988
Fair enough,

You must have had a shocker of a bad pot because mine is absolutely fine with even my most sensitive IEM out if the 4.4mm with no IEMatch. On ECO of course.

The IEMatch should make a huge difference to the output, if the pot on your unit was so bad the IEMatch didn’t fix the issue it really must have been appallingly bad. If so I can see your frustration.
You must be really lucky if you did not have volume imbalance on even eco between 6 and 10 o clock.

There were so many reports on this, that I thought it was a “feature”
 
Nov 30, 2023 at 1:44 PM Post #2,970 of 2,988
Fair enough,

You must have had a shocker of a bad pot because mine is absolutely fine with even my most sensitive IEM out if the 4.4mm with no IEMatch. On ECO of course.

The IEMatch should make a huge difference to the output, if the pot on your unit was so bad the IEMatch didn’t fix the issue it really must have been appallingly bad. If so I can see your frustration.
Some pots are good some are bad, which is the problem because it depends on how lucky you are.
 

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