iFi audio iSilencer+ and iDefender+
Mar 23, 2020 at 6:04 PM Post #31 of 261
Would the iSilencer improve my iDSD Pro DAC or does the USB in the Pro already include what the iSilencer does?

Pro iDSD is already generously loaded with our USB sorting tech, but noise reduction provided by iSilencer+ is additive with each extra in one's setup. This effect varies from one setup to another though; the noisier your transport is, the more audible iSilencer's input will be.
 
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Mar 30, 2020 at 1:49 PM Post #32 of 261
So I'd like to express a discovery about the iDefender (the first original one) which only lends itself to the efficacy of the upcoming iDefender+. I've owned the iDefender3.0 and 5V iPower for a couple of years now and honestly never really heard any differences when plugging it into chain which includes the iGalvanic3.0, the iPurifer3, and the iSilencer....... so the addition of the iDefender did nothing for my sound.

Fast forward to now, 2 years later. Today, I'm reading about the new iDefender+ and how it works to eliminate problems associated with multiple grounds which I never understood or paid attention to in the directions before. So as I'm reading THIS Head-Fi feed, I glance over to where my laptop is plugged into to my surge protector strip and there's multiple 3 prong plugs plugged into it. Yep, that's mulitiple grounds for sure going on. Hmmmm.....?????

I plugged the original iDefender (without the iPower connected into the side of it) into my laptop and used it with my Audioquest DragonFly Cobalt along with the iPurifer3 all in a chain. I go over to Youtube and listen to Hauser (of The Two Cellos fame) here: . I swear I can here a difference but can't understand why. After a dozen times of putting the iDefender (the original) into and out of the chain, I figured it out. There is no change in clarity BUT there is a slight difference in transparency and dynamics! It's like a little bit of of veil has been lifted. Wow, I'd never perceived the difference before with the iDefender in my other rig because my iGalvanic3.0 was already covering any potential grounding issues.

Honestly, there was no buzzing or humming or anything objectionable going on even before any of these gadgets were hooked into the chain. I just use these devices "just in case" to cover all bases. Besides, much of this fatigue inducing distortion is almost subliminal and yet significant over time. I was listening for greater clarity but not transparency.....if that makes any sense? I missed it because I didn't know what to listen for. The iDefender makes a difference EVEN IF you have no perceived problems and EVEN IF you don't use the iPower with it. That's my story. Hope this helps folks decide on whether to try the new iDefender+ coming out.
 
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Mar 30, 2020 at 5:08 PM Post #33 of 261
BUT there is a slight difference in transparency and dynamics! It's like a little bit of of veil has been lifted.

True, that's what should be heard. No tonal shifts but everything a bit tighter and more clear, like someone took some blur away.

in my other rig because my iGalvanic3.0 was already covering any potential grounding issues.

Yup!

Besides, much of this fatigue inducing distortion is almost subliminal and yet significant over time.

True as well, we get used to distortion in time and appreciation when it's gone can take a while. There is some learning curve to all this.

Also, thanks for your feedback!
 
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Mar 30, 2020 at 9:08 PM Post #34 of 261
@iFi audio @Condocondor

Shouldn't the iDefender go into "bypass" mode when used with a usb-powered device without an external power supply, therefore not doing anything at all in such situation???

That is the way I had understood it worked. Basically

- iDefender with externally or battery powered device = iDefender can isolate the ground and filter most of the noise, only allowing handshake.
- iDefender with usb powered device but with ipower attached to the side of it = iDefender can isolate the ground and filter most of the noise, only allowing handshake.
- iDefender with usb powered device and nothing else = no effect, basically a bypass mode.

Am I wrong? Can the iDefender still filter a noisy ground in the third case?

I own one and always wanted to suggest you to add a second led light to indicate when the isoground circuit is actually engaged and when not, to avoid any confusion.
 
Mar 31, 2020 at 5:54 AM Post #35 of 261
- iDefender with usb powered device and nothing else = no effect, basically a bypass mode.

Yes, in this specific case (with USB powered device) this is factual. iDefender3.0 has to be in bypass mode, otherwise a DAC next to it in a setup wouldn't be powered. Self-powered DACs are a different story.
 
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Mar 31, 2020 at 12:38 PM Post #36 of 261
Yes, in this specific case (with USB powered device) this is factual. iDefender3.0 has to be in bypass mode, otherwise a DAC next to it in a setup wouldn't be powered. Self-powered DACs are a different story.

Thanks for the quick answer,

after reading Condocondor's post and writing mine, I actually tested my iDefender3.0 with an usb powered dac-amp, no added ipower....and I could actually hear a difference, similar to what Condo said...it was like it removed some harshness in the sound...and yet I know it should not be making any difference because it is in bypass mode...

Maybe it is all placebo I honestly dunno.....would like to hear people's impressions of the new ipower x and idefender+ combo though.
 
Mar 31, 2020 at 6:21 PM Post #37 of 261
and I could actually hear a difference, similar to what Condo said

Not a placebo. USB takes the edge off music by reducing grain which we recognize as harshness, or less fluent sound in general. But I'll ask our R&D staff just to make sure whether iDefender3.0 does anything in in bypass mode.
 
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Apr 1, 2020 at 6:53 AM Post #38 of 261
Not a placebo. USB takes the edge off music by reducing grain which we recognize as harshness, or less fluent sound in general. But I'll ask our R&D staff just to make sure whether iDefender3.0 does anything in in bypass mode.

Thanks, please do ask I am really curious about what could be going on.

My theory is, even in bypass there is still some ground filtering applied, I tried with and without a few times and I could predictably hear the difference, just wanted to make sure it was not all in my mind. Thanks in advance.
 
Apr 1, 2020 at 4:03 PM Post #39 of 261
My theory is, even in bypass there is still some ground filtering applied, I tried with and without a few times and I could predictably hear the difference, just wanted to make sure it was not all in my mind. Thanks in advance.

iDefender3.0 cuts VBus and ground, provided that one of the following is true:

1) a DAC only uses VBus for signalling, not to actually draw power.
2) a DAC does not use VBus at all
3) An external 5V supply is injected via iDefender3.0.

However, inside the product there are several components outside the main function, which contribute to the effect you described. So yes, even in spite of iDefender3.0 set in bypass mode, it still can change sound audibly. Not in every setup out there, but this might happen.
 
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Apr 3, 2020 at 12:23 PM Post #41 of 261
Apr 10, 2020 at 1:16 PM Post #43 of 261
I received the iSilencer+ today. It's honestly hard for me to tell if there's any difference with my iFi iDSD Nano Black Label.

@iFi audio : is there expected to be any difference when the Nano is running on battery power, or does the iSilencer+ only have an effect when running power through USB?
 
Apr 10, 2020 at 7:52 PM Post #45 of 261
Okay, like I said, I received the new iFi iSilencer+ today, and I was having trouble discerning by ear whether it makes a difference on my iFi iDSD Nano Black Series.

So I decided to do some measurements!

Any other measurements of devices like these that you're likely to find are going to have been conducted with equipment that analyzes the signal itself (rather than how that signal translates to headphone performance). I wanted to do something different for two reasons: (1) I don't have that fancy equipment, and (2) I wanted something that might be more representative of what I/you can expect in actual use.

So what I did was play a sine wave through my Sony MDR-7520 headphones, and I recorded the output on my ThinkPad T470s screen microphone (like I said: no fancy equipment). I generated a 1000 Hz sine wave in Audacity at 0.005 amplitude (0.5% of maximum amplitude). Why so low? I wanted to test the iSilencer+ in its true use case: USB power. To make sure that the Nano powers through USB when I unplugged the cable to add the iSilencer+ in-line, I needed to turn the volume knob all the way down to power it off, so that I could power it back on after plugging the cable back in. This meant that the only way to maintain the same volume across the two recording conditions was to turn the volume all the way up (i.e., hard stop when turning clockwise). The tone at 0.005 amplitude yielded a normal listening level with the Nano turned all the way up, so I used this level to generate the tone. Having such a low signal volume also lowers the SNR, potentially allowing any benefits of noise-reduction to be observed more clearly.

Recording and analysis were done in Praat speech acoustic software.

These were the steps of the process:

1) Generate a 1000 Hz sine wave (0.005 amplitude)

2) Play sine wave through iFi iDSD Nano Black Series (iEMatch output) and Sony MDR-7520

3) Place headphone pad over microphone (placement doesn't move between recordings)

4) Record signal at 22050 Hz for 10 seconds

5) Generate FFT spectrum

6) Plot log-transformed frequency spectrum (50 Hz - 10 kHz)

There are two plots attached here. The first one (iSilencer-1.png) shows the spectrum without the iSilencer+ in red and the spectrum with the iSilencer+ in blue. The second one (iSilencer-2.png) shows the spectrum with the iSilencer+ in red and the spectrum without the iSilencer+ in blue. What we're looking for here then is areas where the red noise rises above the blue noise in both cases.

Although I can't necessarily hear a difference, it seems pretty clear to me that the iSilencer+ is actually reducing noise in a real-world scenario: although the reduction in higher frequencies is quite small (yet apparent), there seems to be a good deal of noise in the 300-500 Hz range that is reduced at least a few dB. Conversely, there is a slight bit of noise introduced by the iSilencer+ in the skirts around the 1000 Hz tone. Also, it may be hard to see in the plot, but iSilencer-2.png shows that the amplitude of the sine wave itself is slightly higher with the iSilencer+ in line. Keep in mind that the y-axis has the same scale for both figures, so what this means is that not only is the iSilencer+ reducing noise but it seems to increase the signal itself somehow (this may just be a spurious effect though).

In any case, even though I can't necessarily hear a difference, my own tests have convinced me that the iSilencer+ does have some effect. The effect seems to be large enough, that I'm going to keep the iSilencer+ for piece of mind.

Another fine product, @iFi audio!
 

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