[applesnowleo]

I tried in a normal cable, one that comes from one NAS on the other side of the house, in this case the sense of depth is better perceived and a little very little more sharpness in sounds, but also the sound is a little wide, the isilencer has his virtues, and does something. The focal sopra are very sensible to changes the sound does not degrade, more a subtitle difference that in my case has his advantages, the less wider sound for me is the thing I do not like to loose.

I want to point that this is my opinion on my main system, and this does not reflect that the product is bad or will not work wonders for other people, as this type of tweaks is very system dependent.

I love ifi products and I have more or them than a rational person should have, 6 dacs, 2 iTubes , micro iusb first gen and 3.0, their USB cables and power cables, the zen streamer and a few more filters.

After some upgrades to morre expensive systems, the only ones I use are the portable dacs and pro iDSD and the Zen Stream. After going a little up I found the ifi products other than the dac’s gone one by one to the boxes.

The power cables and power strip did not work for me, I found the Supernova musical but not that good for the price purchased it and is in the box since then, not good for me, and the power strip the new price makes no sense, since the Niagara 1200 simply is on another league, is more expensive but a lot better.

But many people rave this products, and if they work great on a system they are all you will ever need, simply did not work for me and on my systems. And I have a few and the coherence between them was similar.

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

I tried in a normal cable, one that comes from one NAS on the other side of the house, in this case the sense of depth is better perceived and a little very little more sharpness in sounds, but also the sound is a little wide, the isilencer has his virtues, and does something. The focal sopra are very sensible to changes the sound does not degrade, more a subtitle difference that in my case has his advantages, the less wider sound for me is the thing I do not like to loose.

I want to point that this is my opinion on my main system, and this does not reflect that the product is bad or will not work wonders for other people, as this type of tweaks is very system dependent.

I love ifi products and I have more or them than a rational person should have, 6 dacs, 2 iTubes , micro iusb first gen and 3.0, their USB cables and power cables, the zen streamer and a few more filters.

After some upgrades to morre expensive systems, the only ones I use are the portable dacs and pro iDSD and the Zen Stream. After going a little up I found the ifi products other than the dac’s gone one by one to the boxes.

The power cables and power strip did not work for me, I found the Supernova musical but not that good for the price purchased it and is in the box since then, not good for me, and the power strip the new price makes no sense, since the Niagara 1200 simply is on another league, is more expensive but a lot better.

But many people rave this products, and if they work great on a system they are all you will ever need, simply did not work for me and on my systems. And I have a few and the coherence between them was similar.

Thank you for your great support! I will certainly relay your comments!

We Try!

Cheers!!

 

[applesnowleo]

A little update, in my main system the iSilencer causes losses in resolution and impact on the sounds, textures loose resolution, a little veil is present, the clarity of small sounds is lost and feels softer, a very small veil is present on complex tracks. For very aggressive systems it could be a good addon, the iSilencer makes the sound softer and less clear.

I do not think with naim gear is good, the losses are very apparent on some tracks the small details are lost, is like removing the sharpness on the instruments and music.

So before jumping in like I did try to listen first.

 

[iFi audio]

A little update, in my main system the iSilencer causes losses in resolution and impact on the sounds, textures loose resolution, a little veil is present, the clarity of small sounds is lost and feels softer, a very small veil is present on complex tracks. For very aggressive systems it could be a good addon, the iSilencer makes the sound softer and less clear.

I do not think with naim gear is good, the losses are very apparent on some tracks the small details are lost, is like removing the sharpness on the instruments and music.

So before jumping in like I did try to listen first.

Thanks for your feedback, it's much appreciated! I think I know what you mean. Many Naim products are known for their fast, powerful and outlined sound, while LAN iSilencer makes background darker. That can be seen as something that takes some of that Naim crispness away and introduces veil. After several days of usage in your system that initial impression often changes though. Hope this helps and again, thanks!

 

[applesnowleo]

One thing I did not take into account is that most things need burn in even small things like this, and my experience was an out of the box one. I have a few more systems and the results could be very different on other systems.

I will connect them on for a week on the network and let them burn in. Naim gear is complicated enough by itself. Also I have sboosters on the switches and I will connect to them the ifi Power Elites again, toroidal transformers could sometimes create adverse effects on this type of solutions.

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

One thing I did not take into account is that most things need burn in even small things like this, and my experience was an out of the box one. I have a few more systems and the results could be very different on other systems.

I will connect them on for a week on the network and let them burn in. Naim gear is complicated enough by itself. Also I have sboosters on the switches and I will connect to them the ifi Power Elites again, toroidal transformers could sometimes create adverse effects on this type of solutions.

I look forward to more of your impressions they are very interesting!

Cheers!!

 

[applesnowleo]

One situation it could be interesting is on my desk speakers when connected to the Niagara 1200, the Niagara 1200 sometimes can be a little too much on the highs on this twitters of the focal Solo 6be with lesser recordings, the added little softness with the lan iSilencer could be good for controlling some edginess of some speaker twitters.

The ifi lan iSilencer adds a personality to the sound, the information is all there, the soundstage changes a little and add a little overall softness in the presentation but the added softness could be prefered by many people and perceived as a blessing. I use the solo 6be in near field listening when working and this iSilencer kindly relaxes a bit the sound.

I think for what it does it’s interesting, I have gone too high on my systems realism and resolution, love the refinement, clarity and the dimension of my sound, and solutions like this are system dependent.

With ipower elites on the switches that are very precise and correct the same effects are there, I notice this more using a Niagara 3000 than the 1200. with the amplifiers out of the Niagara’s the effect of the ifi lan iSilencer is more credible and makes more sense. But even on my systems I still prefer without.

I tested with tree amps one one pair of amplified speakers, also tested with the focal utopia on an Uniti atom HE and on the ifi Pro iDSD. The speakers used where focal sopra n1, focal Kanta n1, focal area 906 and focal solo 6be, cables usb cinnamon and diamond from audioquest, network cables, full network with AQ cinnamon, Full network with Audioquest vodka, and full network with audioquest diamond from server to switches and streamers.

The streamers were, Uniti Atom HE, Ifi Zen stream, Naim NDX 2, Sotm SMS 200 Ultra with SPS 500 with silver power cable.

The interconnects and speaker cables where, Audioquest Earth, Vovox textura fortis, audioquest Robin Hood zero, power cables where audioquest tornado on server and switches, Naim power lines on the naim gear, audioquest Hurricanes on the Niagara’s, and hurricane source on the streamers.

Also used a bluesound as a streamer with audioquest carbon digital coaxial and in this case the ifi iSilencer worked great using a pair of focal 906 with a Denon PMA 2500 NE and an AVC X8500HA, and a pair of audioquest x2 to be easier to connect to the speakers.

Depending on the system combination the ifi lan iSilencer could make wonders and give you more, or subtracting something on others. I will use one on my bluesound on the home cinema amp for streaming. On the rest of my systems I did not feel what it added and subtracted resulted for me.

 

[AussieMick]

OK, maybe I had a problem with if a person can hear a difference with Chord Mojo 2. Whatever their experience level....the largest sampling rate in this test for ethernet signal is optimal. You previously mentioned only highly experienced folks should participate. If you can get those folks from companies to participate, great. But including as many people as you can is just a better sampling pool.

Sorry for the late reply, but I needed to think this through because you make some good points. I think we need to sort out what our experiment should try to achieve.
1. There are previous posts in this thread and others saying a product like this simply can’t work, but I think they generally confuse data corruption and elctrical noise. The two exist independently of each other, and. It’s important that we don’t waste time on the data discussion. It’s not relevant to what this product is trying to do.

2. My personal preference is to deal with whether or not the product does what it says it does. That’s ultimately the issue, I think. How “obvious” it might be is dependent on far too many variables (system context, source, resolution of loudspeakers/headphones, listener experience, possibly more). So in trying to ascertain what we could actually test for, it seems to me that we need to establish “does it do what it says” in a baseline way. Does it reduce noise and produce a more pleasant sound from the system? For this I’m sticking to the need for an expert panel because it will be very experienced and used to listening for extremely subtle changes. If those people can hear it under test conditions then we can for retain say that we need new measurement paradigms if we’re to convince sceptics.

3. I don’t think we’ll get those experts for two reasons, the first being that already know electrical noise matters, so why would they sit in a test? The second reason is related in that what audio company will spend any development budget on developing tests to convince the sceptics of what is already “known”? Going straight to a cynical marketing reason is, well…cynical.

4. And finally a question for you; do you honestly believe iFi are lying? Do you honestly believe the iFi engineers developed this product, listened to it, heard no difference, and said, “let’s sell it anyway”? That the dealer network, and anyone who’s tried the product in a showroom or their home and has heard a difference is wrong? That’s kind of what has to be true for your assertion to be correct.

A disclaimer from me and what I use and believe in; I use Akiko Audio power and conditining products. The Corelli, Phono Booster, Triple AC Evolution, E-Tuning Gold, Speaker Chips, XLR sticks and Universal sticks. I’ve copped a lot of sarcasm online for them and usually people use words like magic and delusional. Then I point out that Akiko have measurements to support their products and people either go silent or say the measurements must be fake. That kind of scepticism is near impossible to convince, but it’s a demonstration of run for half a dozen people who initially mocked me. I also use Violet level fuses from QSA and a purple level fuse from Synergistic Research. No measurements anywhere, but again demonstrations I’ve run successfully.
On the next tweak level up I’ve got power cables and an audiophile power distributor. Are they impossible snake oil? Some say so. What about DACs sounding different? Amplifiers? Speakers and headphones?
Where do you draw the line, and who gets to draw it? It beggars belief that there are still people who say all DACs sound the same. The same with amplifters. Can you imagine if those people got to draw the line? We’d be in 1980. What about speaker cables and interconnects? There’s still an online presence that debates reality. Measured reality. Plugs and connectors affect cable sound and that’s not deniable anymore. Silver, gold, copper and rhodium sound different on power cables. It’s been measured, yet people still argue. Why? Sometimes it’s that they just haven’t seen the evidence yet because they haven’t looked. At what point will sceptics concede that MAYBE electrical noise is a problem in digital audio? All we need is a maybe, a crack in the door to let some light in, so that we might all come together to think of what might be measured differently. A new set of protocols.

You and I have had what I think is one the more respectful online conversations about this topic and for that I am grateful. Reading back over our posts I see our biggest hurdle is in agreeing what to investigate in a test. If we could agree on that inreckon we’d have this problem (theoretically) licked.
Cheers
Mick

 

[Jake2]

.

You and I have had what I think is one the more respectful online conversations about this topic and for that I am grateful. Reading back over our posts I see our biggest hurdle is in agreeing what to investigate in a test. If we could agree on that inreckon we’d have this problem (theoretically) licked.
Cheers
Mick

This. Kudos to you both.

 

[iFi audio]

4. And finally a question for you; do you honestly believe iFi are lying? Do you honestly believe the iFi engineers developed this product, listened to it, heard no difference, and said, “let’s sell it anyway”? That the dealer network, and anyone who’s tried the product in a showroom or their home and has heard a difference is wrong? That’s kind of what has to be true for your assertion to be correct.

Thank you for writing this

 

[applesnowleo]

I think the iSilencer is system, gear and user dependent. Saying it doesn’t work for me is not saying it will not work for others.

Ifi makes great affordable products and Dacs that I love, I think their quality is honest, what it does not work for one person is not a prove that the product is bad in any way, I am sure my speakers do not work for many people but work for me. Opinions are subjective and related only with a specific system, user personality and tastes.

What I find in my system does not mean you will have the same experience, but my take on this iSilencer is try before you buy, if it works pull the plug.

 

[Davesrose]

1. There are previous posts in this thread and others saying a product like this simply can’t work, but I think they generally confuse data corruption and elctrical noise. The two exist independently of each other, and. It’s important that we don’t waste time on the data discussion. It’s not relevant to what this product is trying to do.

They're not independent of each other, and the intent for a digital connection is that it meets the specs for keeping a constant bit rate. With ethernet, even if there is a drop out, it probably won't be picked up because of TCP/IP. If accumulated noise from ethernet cables kept getting built up in components to effect sound, then we wouldn't have lossless streaming music: which is comprised of millions of noisy servers and miles of cable.

2. My personal preference is to deal with whether or not the product does what it says it does. That’s ultimately the issue, I think. How “obvious” it might be is dependent on far too many variables (system context, source, resolution of loudspeakers/headphones, listener experience, possibly more). So in trying to ascertain what we could actually test for, it seems to me that we need to establish “does it do what it says” in a baseline way. Does it reduce noise and produce a more pleasant sound from the system? For this I’m sticking to the need for an expert panel because it will be very experienced and used to listening for extremely subtle changes. If those people can hear it under test conditions then we can for retain say that we need new measurement paradigms if we’re to convince sceptics.

I'm not sure if there's comparison measurements for these particular devices, but I thought it interesting that the tests Amir did with $20 ethernet switch and audiophile one had identical noise (which the audiophile hub was advertised as eliminating noise). Measuring devices are certainly more accurate than our hearing (which is effected by bias, mood, attention, etc). One of our main arguments was a premise that if people hear a difference, then we're not doing the right measurements. The problem with anecdotes is that we all have biases, even unconscious ones. That's why an ABX test would be more conclusive than anecdote in determining if there's something off with measurements.

RE: expert panel. If you want people with training for hearing subtle differences, then it should be sound engineers. You previously mentioned design engineers from the companies. They have a vested interest and those engineers have training in electronics, not necessarily sound. Also this thread has been encouraging anyone to try these devices, so it seems the premise is that there is a clear difference that non-sound engineers can pick up.

3. I don’t think we’ll get those experts for two reasons, the first being that already know electrical noise matters, so why would they sit in a test? The second reason is related in that what audio company will spend any development budget on developing tests to convince the sceptics of what is already “known”? Going straight to a cynical marketing reason is, well…cynical.

If you're saying the ABX test has to have engineers from the audio brands, then it probably won't happen. They have a vested interest not to participate. They can market testimonials and it would be bad press if ABX fails. It happened in the 70s: there were audio companies contributing to ABX tests for their multi-thousand dollar cables. After the tests didn't confirm a difference, they stopped participating

4. And finally a question for you; do you honestly believe iFi are lying? Do you honestly believe the iFi engineers developed this product, listened to it, heard no difference, and said, “let’s sell it anyway”? That the dealer network, and anyone who’s tried the product in a showroom or their home and has heard a difference is wrong? That’s kind of what has to be true for your assertion to be correct.

A company's main motivator is profit and relies on marketing. There's often times that marketing claims are exaggerations or counter to the development. I'm not accusing people of lying. Sales people at dealerships may hear a difference, but again, that's anecdotal. We started our exchange over science principles, and how we can't rely on uncontrolled tests as people have biases (whether conscious or unconscious).

Where do you draw the line, and who gets to draw it? It beggars belief that there are still people who say all DACs sound the same. The same with amplifters. Can you imagine if those people got to draw the line? We’d be in 1980. What about speaker cables and interconnects? There’s still an online presence that debates reality. Measured reality. Plugs and connectors affect cable sound and that’s not deniable anymore. Silver, gold, copper and rhodium sound different on power cables. It’s been measured, yet people still argue. Why? Sometimes it’s that they just haven’t seen the evidence yet because they haven’t looked. At what point will sceptics concede that MAYBE electrical noise is a problem in digital audio? All we need is a maybe, a crack in the door to let some light in, so that we might all come together to think of what might be measured differently. A new set of protocols.

A DAC chip doesn't have a sound. The issue with how DACs sound is there are different designs for the analog stage. I have DACs that are supposed to have "bright sounding" chips, but their headphone output sounds dark and muddy. In electrical engineering, it's always been known that wire gauge and material effects conductivity. So it is very possible to have measurements that show differences. The question is if they make a perceptible difference. We get back to ABX testing being more conclusive for evaluating measurements.

You and I have had what I think is one the more respectful online conversations about this topic and for that I am grateful. Reading back over our posts I see our biggest hurdle is in agreeing what to investigate in a test. If we could agree on that inreckon we’d have this problem (theoretically) licked.
Cheers
Mick

Yes, it's good to have a civil conversation and not get accusatory. In the end, I think you're always going to have skeptics and different levels of audiophiles. Calls for controlled tests have been going on for decades, and nothing gets settled People form strong opinions and can reject data that runs counter to their beliefs.

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

One situation it could be interesting is on my desk speakers when connected to the Niagara 1200, the Niagara 1200 sometimes can be a little too much on the highs on this twitters of the focal Solo 6be with lesser recordings, the added little softness with the lan iSilencer could be good for controlling some edginess of some speaker twitters.

The ifi lan iSilencer adds a personality to the sound, the information is all there, the soundstage changes a little and add a little overall softness in the presentation but the added softness could be prefered by many people and perceived as a blessing. I use the solo 6be in near field listening when working and this iSilencer kindly relaxes a bit the sound.

I think for what it does it’s interesting, I have gone too high on my systems realism and resolution, love the refinement, clarity and the dimension of my sound, and solutions like this are system dependent.

With ipower elites on the switches that are very precise and correct the same effects are there, I notice this more using a Niagara 3000 than the 1200. with the amplifiers out of the Niagara’s the effect of the ifi lan iSilencer is more credible and makes more sense. But even on my systems I still prefer without.

I tested with tree amps one one pair of amplified speakers, also tested with the focal utopia on an Uniti atom HE and on the ifi Pro iDSD. The speakers used where focal sopra n1, focal Kanta n1, focal area 906 and focal solo 6be, cables usb cinnamon and diamond from audioquest, network cables, full network with AQ cinnamon, Full network with Audioquest vodka, and full network with audioquest diamond from server to switches and streamers.

The streamers were, Uniti Atom HE, Ifi Zen stream, Naim NDX 2, Sotm SMS 200 Ultra with SPS 500 with silver power cable.

The interconnects and speaker cables where, Audioquest Earth, Vovox textura fortis, audioquest Robin Hood zero, power cables where audioquest tornado on server and switches, Naim power lines on the naim gear, audioquest Hurricanes on the Niagara’s, and hurricane source on the streamers.

Also used a bluesound as a streamer with audioquest carbon digital coaxial and in this case the ifi iSilencer worked great using a pair of focal 906 with a Denon PMA 2500 NE and an AVC X8500HA, and a pair of audioquest x2 to be easier to connect to the speakers.

Depending on the system combination the ifi lan iSilencer could make wonders and give you more, or subtracting something on others. I will use one on my bluesound on the home cinema amp for streaming. On the rest of my systems I did not feel what it added and subtracted resulted for me.

Once again, many many thanks for your Testing and write-ups of the subject.

I feel these are invaluable to look to for individuals that it may either help or not help them out!

Cheers!!

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

Sorry for the late reply, but I needed to think this through because you make some good points. I think we need to sort out what our experiment should try to achieve.
1. There are previous posts in this thread and others saying a product like this simply can’t work, but I think they generally confuse data corruption and elctrical noise. The two exist independently of each other, and. It’s important that we don’t waste time on the data discussion. It’s not relevant to what this product is trying to do.

2. My personal preference is to deal with whether or not the product does what it says it does. That’s ultimately the issue, I think. How “obvious” it might be is dependent on far too many variables (system context, source, resolution of loudspeakers/headphones, listener experience, possibly more). So in trying to ascertain what we could actually test for, it seems to me that we need to establish “does it do what it says” in a baseline way. Does it reduce noise and produce a more pleasant sound from the system? For this I’m sticking to the need for an expert panel because it will be very experienced and used to listening for extremely subtle changes. If those people can hear it under test conditions then we can for retain say that we need new measurement paradigms if we’re to convince sceptics.

3. I don’t think we’ll get those experts for two reasons, the first being that already know electrical noise matters, so why would they sit in a test? The second reason is related in that what audio company will spend any development budget on developing tests to convince the sceptics of what is already “known”? Going straight to a cynical marketing reason is, well…cynical.

4. And finally a question for you; do you honestly believe iFi are lying? Do you honestly believe the iFi engineers developed this product, listened to it, heard no difference, and said, “let’s sell it anyway”? That the dealer network, and anyone who’s tried the product in a showroom or their home and has heard a difference is wrong? That’s kind of what has to be true for your assertion to be correct.

A disclaimer from me and what I use and believe in; I use Akiko Audio power and conditining products. The Corelli, Phono Booster, Triple AC Evolution, E-Tuning Gold, Speaker Chips, XLR sticks and Universal sticks. I’ve copped a lot of sarcasm online for them and usually people use words like magic and delusional. Then I point out that Akiko have measurements to support their products and people either go silent or say the measurements must be fake. That kind of scepticism is near impossible to convince, but it’s a demonstration of run for half a dozen people who initially mocked me. I also use Violet level fuses from QSA and a purple level fuse from Synergistic Research. No measurements anywhere, but again demonstrations I’ve run successfully.
On the next tweak level up I’ve got power cables and an audiophile power distributor. Are they impossible snake oil? Some say so. What about DACs sounding different? Amplifiers? Speakers and headphones?
Where do you draw the line, and who gets to draw it? It beggars belief that there are still people who say all DACs sound the same. The same with amplifters. Can you imagine if those people got to draw the line? We’d be in 1980. What about speaker cables and interconnects? There’s still an online presence that debates reality. Measured reality. Plugs and connectors affect cable sound and that’s not deniable anymore. Silver, gold, copper and rhodium sound different on power cables. It’s been measured, yet people still argue. Why? Sometimes it’s that they just haven’t seen the evidence yet because they haven’t looked. At what point will sceptics concede that MAYBE electrical noise is a problem in digital audio? All we need is a maybe, a crack in the door to let some light in, so that we might all come together to think of what might be measured differently. A new set of protocols.

You and I have had what I think is one the more respectful online conversations about this topic and for that I am grateful. Reading back over our posts I see our biggest hurdle is in agreeing what to investigate in a test. If we could agree on that inreckon we’d have this problem (theoretically) licked.
Cheers
Mick

I have personally enjoyed your discussions, and in the process have learned quite a bit myself, I now understand the reasoning behind why someone would think that a product of this nature would or would not work based on belief and science. I have always leaned towards the side of science for years until one day I heard a cable make a difference for me. Notice I said I heard, since that time I tend to take all viewpoints into hand and then I listen, there have many times I have heard no difference, DACs, Cables, Power cords, yada yada, and as I said then I heard some different products that did make a difference for me, and that in itself changed my approach to most things.

Hopefully, we all can continue this very helpful discussion regarding these types of products, and I will report my thoughts just as soon as I can.

Cheers!!

 

[applesnowleo]

Once again, many many thanks for your Testing and write-ups of the subject.

I feel these are invaluable to look to for individuals that it may either help or not help them out!

Cheers!!

You are welcome, not always this type of solutions work, for example I could give one not ifi related, the Niagara 3000 on some of my systems is too much neutral and revealing the bad of the system more, on those systems the Niagara 1200 works very good. Two products of the same brand that could work or not. Better is not always better if the whole does not work.

Things must be balanced to work, another example the audioquest tornados work better than the hurricane on some of my devices.

I think the isilencer is a great product, for some switches and network cables could be a blessing, this is not an exact science and better or worse is a question of taste. For what I search in my systems I do not need more softness, but on the bluesound, and DENON internal dac’s gear it worked better.

I have found that everything on a network has an effect, switches of various brands sound different, also the power supply’s used on them, and with more complex networks every equipment in the middle will change something in the end.

lesser resolving systems will get the most of the iSilencer, but when the system show every change easily, adding more items between the server and the streamer could sometimes add some degradation. We are talking on an 80 euros device not a 4000 euros one. There are limitations on what a device like this can archive.

The isilencer is the most simpler device we can use on a network, is affordable as a tweak can be, and it could suit many and many users. As soon as I have gone down in the systems the iSilencer showed as a real tweak, not when I went up on more revealing speakers, but even then some people could like the effect.

Not always the more expensive are better or the cheaper one is a miracle solution, things must be balanced as the expectations on what you will get.