Since you have the gear and the skills, why not settle the argument once and for all and run a proper randomized double blind ABX test?
iFi audio LAN iSilencer - Your network. Silenced.
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And these would all be a function of the analog voltage signal out of the dac, right?
AussieMick
500+ Head-Fier
This is a remarkable statement to read in a forum on a website that is all about subjective listening to a subjective art.
Blinded by our own subjectivity. Yowza. As for the snake oil comment, I assume that being in this particular thread you’re saying iFi is peddling snake oil? You’re saying they’re behaving fraudulently?
AussieMick
500+ Head-Fier
Where’s the line? Which products don’t need need measurement back-up and which do? And who gets to choose where that line is? Do speakers sound different? Headphones? Do we need measurements to tell us? What about turntables and cartridges? How about amplifiers? DACs? CD transports? Streamers? Vibration control under electronics? Speaker stands? Signal cables? Power cables? EMI absorbers? Fuses?
And why short term double blind randomised ABX? It’s completely non-representative of the act of listening. A few posts back we read (rightly) that mood, etc affects our listening. Don’t you think sitting a double blind randomised ABX test might produce a bit of stress?
In the end all you have in your own home is your own gear and experience. Why not focus on that? Do what makes you happy. I don’t understand how it is that some people trust their own experiences so little that they need to accuse companies of fraud. There are some world views there that would absolutely one hundred percent bias the listening experience. Golly.
Aggressive cynicism and snake oil accusations belong on Reddit. Enjoy your music, dude, and let other people do the same. Nobody needs saving.
And why short term double blind randomised ABX? It’s completely non-representative of the act of listening. A few posts back we read (rightly) that mood, etc affects our listening. Don’t you think sitting a double blind randomised ABX test might produce a bit of stress?
In the end all you have in your own home is your own gear and experience. Why not focus on that? Do what makes you happy. I don’t understand how it is that some people trust their own experiences so little that they need to accuse companies of fraud. There are some world views there that would absolutely one hundred percent bias the listening experience. Golly.
Aggressive cynicism and snake oil accusations belong on Reddit. Enjoy your music, dude, and let other people do the same. Nobody needs saving.
FunkyBassMan
500+ Head-Fier
Exactly. From the consumer point of view, no product needs "measurement back-up".
Your goal is to like what you're hearing. If you like it, you like it. It doesn't matter if you like it because it's good or because of confirmation bias, because tomorrow you'll have that same confirmation bias and still like it. And the same the next day and so on.
If someday you don't like it, you sell it. Simple.
FunkyBassMan
500+ Head-Fier
It's very amusing that these people think they can escape their own subjectivity.
It's even more amusing that these people think subjectivity's a bad thing. Subjectivity literally defines our quality of life!
Subjectivity is not a bad thing. What is a bad thing though is buying devices that have no impact whatsoever in audio quality for large sums of money. Don't twist my words.
AussieMick
500+ Head-Fier
I think you quoted the wrong post. My “quality of life” post was in support of something somebody else said, not anything you or I said.
“What is a bad thing though is buying devices that have no impact whatsoever in audio quality for large sums of money.” - why the crusade? A large sum of money for whom? That’s all relative, right? A bad thing for whom? You? Fair enough, but you make it seem a universal truth for all, which it certainly isn’t. Your assumption that it has, “no impact whatsoever” isn’t based in experience, right? How would you know? There are people who have purchased this product and have listened to it who have said it does something. They’ve actually put their hard-earned on the line and have done the work and you’re saying they’re wrong?
Have you stopped to consider you might be mistaken? Are you intellectually humble enough to at least consider the reports and perhaps have a listen yourself?
Of course, it’s absolutely fine if you haven’t, as based on your knowledge you’ve come to the conclusion it doesn’t do anything. No problems there. But why jump on here to tell people they’re wrong and that these things (and people) are fraudulent? What exactly are you hoping to achieve?
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FunkyBassMan
500+ Head-Fier
Exactly.I think you quoted the wrong post. My “quality of life” post was in support of something somebody else said, not anything you or I said.
“What is a bad thing though is buying devices that have no impact whatsoever in audio quality for large sums of money.” - why the crusade? A large sum of money for whom? That’s all relative, right? A bad thing for whom? You? Fair enough, but you make it seem a universal truth for all, which it certainly isn’t. Your assumption that it has, “no impact whatsoever” isn’t based in experience, right? How would you know? There are people who have purchased this product and have listened to it who have said it does something. They’ve actually put their hard-earned on the line and have done the work and you’re saying they’re wrong?
Have you stopped to consider you might be mistaken? Are you intellectually humble enough to at least consider the reports and perhaps have a listen yourself?
Of course, it’s absolutely fine if you haven’t, as based on your knowledge you’ve come to the conclusion it doesn’t do anything. No problems there. But why jump on here to tell people they’re wrong and that these things (and people) are fraudulent? What exactly are you hoping to achieve?
As a behavioural scientists yes I can design A v B double blind randomised experiments and have the tools to deploy appropriate statistical analyses however I go back to my earlier point - what exactly would the dependent measures be in such a design? My own subjective judgements? Me just saying "yes the ifi is connected, no it's not", would I need some kind of spectrum analyser hardware or electronics hardware? I am not a sound engineer, I do not set up hi fi rooms for people so do not have sound meters, analysers etc, etc. Even if I set up such an experiment and it failed to support any effect of the ifi, the findings would be limited by (a) whatever I chose to measure actually capturing with certainty what this device does - i.e. choosing the right things to measure and (b) my specific setup - my router, cables, amplification, speakers, streamer etc. The only way to do this properly would be to test in a range of different hi fi rigs. You can't generalise from an n of 1 - well, if I did multiple trials I could potentially at least say if it worked IN MY SYSTEM, but that's all, and again, I am a slave to the issue of (a) whether I chose to measure the appropriate variables and (b) whether I deployed appropriate gear to measure those variables. You can see why it isn't easy for the average consumer to do this. Maybe a hi fi store or a reviewer with multiple systems could do a test that would offer the potential for generalisability beyond just one hi fi rig, but the typical consumer would typically have one or two setups tops.
applesnowleo
100+ Head-Fier
An update, I let the lan isilencer to eventually burn in since the day I received, today connected again to see if something changed, after all this time in the lan I do not think it changed.
So my comments are still valid, loses definition on textures and transients. Everything is a little softer and less sharp. Not a tweak for high end systems.
So my comments are still valid, loses definition on textures and transients. Everything is a little softer and less sharp. Not a tweak for high end systems.
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Not my experience- I don’t perhaps have what you consider a high end system as mine is only £20k but I know someone with a £/$40k system and they’re blown away by the ifi so I think it appears quite system dependent and once should generalise with caution
I will be honest and state that I have never been fond of iFi's gadgets. I've tried a few over the years where I felt they decreased sound quality in one way or another. But I also know the audio world is extremely complex, and no 2 systems react the same. I am open minded enough to realize that what doesn't work for me may very well be great for others. That said, I ordered a Lan iSilencer just to try.
I do want to say that I run HQPlayer and an UP Board NAA. I recently went through hell trying to improve the sound of my network after finding out every network cable and switch sounds different. I even tried FMC's which was a total disaster even though many think they are great. It was quite the opposite for me, and I tried 3 different boxes, 3 different SFP's, and 2 different optical cables. They were all terrible sounding. So after all my testing, I ended up finding my existing CAT6 cables and network switch easily sounded the best to me. But I was still wondering about the possibility I had some sort of noise on my network. So why not try another iFi gadget?
I've been tweaking my system for many years. I have a sound that I am very satisfied with, but any real audiophile is always seeking "better." I also don't listen to headphones. I am a sound stage guy, and things have to sound realistic to me. I have spent many years tweaking the position of my speakers in my room. I am convinced I cannot do better, and the sound seems to show that.
I received the Lan iSilencer 2 days ago. From the first listen, I was shocked by what I was hearing. I thought my imaging and sense of depth and dimension was fantastic, but this was better. This thing is bringing more precise imaging than I've ever had. Everything is more defined in space and details are just more obvious. The bass has a little less bloat on bass heavy tracks as well. The perception of realism is significantly increased. For me, this thing is amazing.
I will also say that I have spent the last year and a half trying DACs, preamps, power supplies, cables, and network components trying to improve my sound. Everything I tried just made the sound worse. I am running exactly what I started with. The LAN iSilencer is the only thing I tried that actually improved anything in all that time.
For the record, my setup cost me about $19K if that means anything to anyone...
I do want to say that I run HQPlayer and an UP Board NAA. I recently went through hell trying to improve the sound of my network after finding out every network cable and switch sounds different. I even tried FMC's which was a total disaster even though many think they are great. It was quite the opposite for me, and I tried 3 different boxes, 3 different SFP's, and 2 different optical cables. They were all terrible sounding. So after all my testing, I ended up finding my existing CAT6 cables and network switch easily sounded the best to me. But I was still wondering about the possibility I had some sort of noise on my network. So why not try another iFi gadget?
I've been tweaking my system for many years. I have a sound that I am very satisfied with, but any real audiophile is always seeking "better." I also don't listen to headphones. I am a sound stage guy, and things have to sound realistic to me. I have spent many years tweaking the position of my speakers in my room. I am convinced I cannot do better, and the sound seems to show that.
I received the Lan iSilencer 2 days ago. From the first listen, I was shocked by what I was hearing. I thought my imaging and sense of depth and dimension was fantastic, but this was better. This thing is bringing more precise imaging than I've ever had. Everything is more defined in space and details are just more obvious. The bass has a little less bloat on bass heavy tracks as well. The perception of realism is significantly increased. For me, this thing is amazing.
I will also say that I have spent the last year and a half trying DACs, preamps, power supplies, cables, and network components trying to improve my sound. Everything I tried just made the sound worse. I am running exactly what I started with. The LAN iSilencer is the only thing I tried that actually improved anything in all that time.
For the record, my setup cost me about $19K if that means anything to anyone...
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