[Solude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfie Not of any interest, but markl is my favourite "editorialist" here, for sure.

Agreed. MarkL and JaZZ are my other ears around here. I know what they hear will more or less match my own listening impressions though we obviously have difference overall goals our impressions line up.

Luckily none of these cans fall into my budget so good or bad, its a nice read

 

[bangraman]

Dunno whether to agree or disagree. I had a major haircut recently and I was back in markl territory until I readjusted the Qualias. This is clearly ridiculous because in order to do so I need to dig out a jeweller's screwdriver. When adjusted though I disagree. The key question is whether I should be jumping through such hoops for a fricken $2600 headphone.


But then I can't wear the R10 for more than half an hour before my head hurts and that is not fixable, the Orpheus is about an hour and a half and the O2 sort of requires that I tape the pads in place so the fit doesn't change... so I guess it's not THAT ridiculous in the overall scheme of things.

 

[Todd S]

I'm sure this will be a fun read, as was your review of the 701 thread. Looking forward to your breakdown of the GS1k.

 

[mattigol]

Thanks, markl for taking the time and sharing your impressions. Your views are always much appreciated.


Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmopragma Driven by a common amp with flat response they are just another flavour of $300 headphones IMO, but driven by an amp with the right built-in equalization they are top tier headphones.

I've had a similar discussion lately in another thread regarding the improvement that hardware-eq'ing or tuberolling can yield with the W5000. What do you guys think might be AT's rationale to deliberately design their cans to be such a pain to amp-match? Simply to sell more of their own amps? I think that strategy would backfire and hurt overall sales, don't you think? It certainly isn't very user friendly...

 

[fierce_freak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmopragma Driven by a common amp with flat response they are just another flavour of $300 headphones IMO, but driven by an amp with the right built-in equalization they are top tier headphones.

Do they do this so you have to buy their own expensive product to make it sound like it should instead of another company's good amp (would make sense, they are a business)? I can see no other reason for this (well, maybe 1, but I think it's a poor reason).

-edit- mattigol, looks like we have the same question/concern, lol

 

[razer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fierce_freak Do they do this so you have to buy their own expensive product to make it sound like it should instead of another company's good amp (would make sense, they are a business)? I can see no other reason for this (well, maybe 1, but I think it's a poor reason). -edit- mattigol, looks like we have the same question/concern, lol

Now, that set me thinking....And i couldn't agree more to that...

 

[euclid]

i'm really curious where the gs-1000 will place in this group.

 

[razer]

I seriously don't know. I've only tried the L3000's and GS-1000s cause I own the both of them and right now, it seems that my previous negatively inclined impressions with the GS-1000's are beginning to fade. Seems that I'am getting more and more acustomed with the GS-1000 sound and begin to appreciate them more. Maybe its burn in effect or it could be placebo but as far as I know it, I;am beginning to like them more...

 

[shplorgh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmopragma Well, Rick isn't around anymore and I'm shurely no substitute for his stubborness, but .......... You are driving the L3000s totally wrong, and this way you will never know what they are capable of. I don't know why you americans don't get it.The L3000s aren't meant to be driven by an amp that provides a flat frequency response.This is no separate headphone, it's supposed to be a headphone system.The matching amp DHA-3000 is tuned to counterbalance the wrong FR of the L3000s.The Japanese and the Germans do know this, it's common knowledge, and actually we do laugh about the american fools.

This assumes that whatever amp he is using actually has a flat frequency response.

And it also assumes that the DHA3000 actually eq's the L3000 to a flat frequency response, and not just a different response. Flat response is not neccessarily the best.

 

[cosmopragma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hungrych This assumes that whatever amp he is using actually has a flat frequency response.

You are right, I'm assuming that the Emmeline HR-2 solid state amp does provide a flat FR like most solid state amps.Are you suggesting that this particular amp is flawed? AFAIK Ray Samuels is known to be a capable engineer and to look for precision in his solid state designs. Quote:

And it also assumes that the DHA3000 actually eq's the L3000 to a flat frequency response, and not just a different response.

No, it assumes that the DHA3000 and other amps fine tuned to the L3000s do provide the intended FR in combination with the L3000s, and that's not necessarily totally flat whatever that means in the realm of headphone audio (keywords : HRTFs, psychoacoustics).

 

[shplorgh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmopragma No, it assumes that the DHA3000 and other amps fine tuned to the L3000s do provide the intended FR in combination with the L3000s, and that's not necessarily totally flat whatever that means in the realm of headphone audio (keywords : HRTFs, psychoacoustics).

Yeah, that's what I assumed you meant, just making sure.

 

[tkam]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmopragma I did have the opportunity to listen through the L3000s both ways.We are all tired of the overstressed "night and day difference" phrase, but this time it's appropriate.Driven by a common amp with flat response they are just another flavour of $300 headphones IMO, but driven by an amp with the right built-in equalization they are top tier headphones.

I strongly disagree with this I've heard the L3000 with many amps and they have always been a top tier headphone.

 

[Nomad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmopragma Well, Rick isn't around anymore and I'm shurely no substitute for his stubborness, but .......... You are driving the L3000s totally wrong, and this way you will never know what they are capable of. I don't know why you americans don't get it.The L3000s aren't meant to be driven by an amp that provides a flat frequency response.This is no separate headphone, it's supposed to be a headphone system.The matching amp DHA-3000 is tuned to counterbalance the wrong FR of the L3000s.The Japanese and the Germans do know this, it's common knowledge, and actually we do laugh about the american fools.

Now you are a fool and you are totally wrong!!!!!

Ok ok... I was kidding too about the whole flame thing.

But on a serious note, cosmo, although I tend to agree with you quite often while reading previous post of you... I have to disagree here.

I have the DHA3000 and although it is an amazing amp for the L3000, it is not doing something really special to the sound. It's just "synergistic" not "compensational". Some other phones sound great from the DHA3000 too. Actually... I might even prefer the DHA3000-PS1 combo to the DHA3000-L3000, although I tend to prefer the L3000 to the PS1 overall.

It is my opinion that a powerful and tad warm SS amp is the ticket for the L3000s (I tried it with a quite a lot of amps). Still... the L3000 is very easy going regarding amps so most of them are just fine in the worst case scenario (being most of them very good and a few really amazing).

Perhaps you were listening to the L3000s in different moods by then? Not that I'm questioning your impressions. It's just that this is something that happens to some people sometimes. A headphone sounding great one day and not that great on the other. Perhaps it is not related at all... but anyway ...

I feel that this issue is a "synergistic" night/day difference more than a "equalized" night/day difference. At least to me.

Cheers

 

[cosmopragma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomad Now you are a fool and you are totally wrong!!!!!

Lol, I deserve it since I never actually listened to the DHA3000.
The amp I listened to was the japanese CEC HD53 with built-in equalization for the L3000s, and I was told by the owner that the DHA3000 provides a similar equalization.
We did have another (stock) CEC HD53 at the minimeet at our disposal for direct comparison.
The designer of the amp (Carlos Candeias who grew up in Germany and now lives in Asia) happens to be a fan of AT headphones.He has fine tuned an amp for his own L3000s and did offer this equalization curcuit to some interested Germans.
He even plans to design an amp with exchangeable equalization modules for different headphones.
However, the stock combo did sound too dark and generally too coloured for our tastes.The lower mids were often obscured by the strong bass.Overall it did sound laid back and sometimes even a bit lame, maybe suffering from intermodulation distortion, the latter similar to the effect you get when you try to equalize a K1000 into a bassy headphone.

 

[markl]

Quote:

It is my opinion that a powerful and tad warm SS amp is the ticket for the L3000s

If so, the Ray Sameuls HR-2 that I'm using should be *right up* the L3000's avenue.