[bareyb]

The DAC1 is $500.00 cheaper than the DAC2. I realize the DAC2 is superior in many ways, that's not in question... What I'm wondering is, given the (much) better price of the DAC1, is it still a viable investment? Is it going to be obsolete in next year or two or is the DAC2 just way ahead of the game? 
 
It should be noted that my source is the Macbook Pro USB out and iTunes. If I'm not mistaken, I believe iTunes is somewhat limited anyway, so the more advanced features of the DAC2 may not even come into play. 
 
Any thoughts? I mainly am looking for a DAC/Preamp with Remote Control capability and the only two I could dig up are the DAC1/2 and the GRACE M903... I'm certainly open to other suggestions if anyone has any.... Thanks in advance. 

 

[jtinto]

IMO, the DAC-1 is a good value on the used market

 

[bareyb]

Quote:

IMO, the DAC-1 is a good value on the used market

Do you think it's still got some good years left in the design? I sure don't want to spend $$$ only to have it "not supported" if I buy a new Mac...
 
ETA: I called the manufacturer and they are closed.... Here's the email I got from Roy this a.m.
 
 
 

[size=medium]Hello Barry,[/size][size=medium][/size]
[size=medium][/size]
[size=medium]Thanks for your interest in our products. All of our headphones amps are the same. However, for remote control, consider the DAC1HDR and DAC2.[/size][size=medium][/size]
[size=medium]If you can go the little bit extra, I'd suggest the DAC2. It has the latest dac chip, with many additional features. It outperforms the DAC1HDR in all categories.[/size][size=medium][/size]
[size=medium][/size]
[size=medium]http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/dac/dac2-hgc[/size][size=medium][/size]
[size=medium][/size]
[size=medium]http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/dac/dac1-hdr[/size][size=medium][/size]
[size=medium][/size]
[size=medium]I hope this helps.  [/size][size=medium][/size]
[size=medium][/size]
[size=medium]Best regards, [/size][size=medium][/size]
[size=medium][/size]
[size=medium][/size]
[size=medium]Rory Rall[/size][size=medium][/size]
[size=medium]Sales Mgr.[/size][size=medium][/size]
[size=medium]Benchmark Media Systems, Inc.[/size][size=medium][/size]
[size=medium]203 E. Hampton Place, Ste 2[/size][size=medium][/size]
[size=medium]Syracuse, NY 13206[/size][size=medium][/size]
[size=medium]http://www.benchmarkmedia.com[/size][size=medium][/size]
[size=medium]800-262-4675[/size][size=medium][/size]
[size=medium]fax 315-437-8119[/size]

 

[third_eye]

What headphones are you planning to use this with? What's your budget? The DAC1 was the "benchmark" several years ago and was/is known for strict neutrality. Maybe not the best synergy with a neutral headphone like the HD800 for example. Grace m903 is excellent (I own it), the Mytek 192 is another well regarded all in one box in this price category.

 

[bareyb]

Quote:

What headphones are you planning to use this with? What's your budget? The DAC1 was the "benchmark" several years ago and was/is known for strict neutrality. Maybe not the best synergy with a neutral headphone like the HD800 for example. Grace m903 is excellent (I own it), the Mytek 192 is another well regarded all in one box in this price category.

I'm planning on using it with my HE500s. So neutral is probably a good thing. I'm also interested in the Grace M903. I wonder how the DACS compare? How is the Power output on the GRACE? Can it drive Planars to pretty high volume levels? I had not heard of the Mytek 192. I'll have to look into that. Thanks for the lead. 

 

[bareyb]

The GRACE 903 is a contender too. Check out these specs I just got from them:
 
 
 

[size=medium] Hi Barry,
The m903 and m905 both contain reference quality headphone amplifiers and DA converters. The power output capabilities are listed below.


m903
32 Ohm 2100mW
50 Ohm 1548mW
300 Ohm 271mW
600 Ohm 136mW

m905
32 Ohm 2300mW
50 Ohm 1620mW
300 Ohm 294mW
600 Ohm 147mW

Please let me know if you have any further questions.
Best,
Michael

-- 
Michael Grace
Grace Design
mbgrace@gracedesign.com
http://www.gracedesign.com
303-443-7454 x108[/size]

 

 

[Dubstep Girl]

it should be good for a couple years more.
 
im still using a PS Audio Digital Link III, and thats pretty old as well, but still holds up against similarly priced dacs, the benchmark should hold up as well. i have no plans of updating my dac yet

 

[bareyb]

Quote:

it should be good for a couple years more.
 
im still using a PS Audio Digital Link III, and thats pretty old as well, but still holds up against similarly priced dacs, the benchmark should hold up as well. i have no plans of updating my dac yet

That's what I was hoping. The Benchmark will be here later today. The Grace will here tomorrow. If neither of those have enough power for me then I'm just going to use them as DACs and get the most powerful headphone amp I can find. 

 

[third_eye]

I'm pretty sure that they will have enough power for your headphones. HE-6, not so much. The m903's volume can be adjusted (or trimmed) up or down 9.5db, which I use when powering the HD800. With that I'm at about 70 (out of 100) on the dial (I listen fairly loud).
 

 

[bareyb]

Finally got some good specs for the Benchmark DAC. The Grace designs appears to have double the power of the Benchmark and 9 dB of available gain. The Benchmark comes with the gain @ -10dB and requires the removal of jumpers inside the unit to adjust it to +0 dB (there is no gain available on the Benchmark).  So based solely on Specs, the Grace seems to take it. Benchmark feels pretty confident though, and welcomes a head to head comparison. Which I will do at a later date... Comparison to follow. 
 
[size=medium]Benchmark DAC1/2 Power Output:[/size]
[size=medium]@ 32 Ohms:[size=medium] 1.1 W[/size][/size]
[size=medium]@ 50 Ohms:[size=medium] 0.76 W[/size][/size]
 
[size=medium]Grace Designs M903 Power Output:[/size]
[size=medium]@ 32 Ohms: 2.1 W[/size][size=medium][/size]
[size=medium]@ 50 Ohms: 1.5 W[/size]

 

[StudioSound]

But don't you only need one or two milliwatts to reach deafening levels, or am I misunderstanding the dB/mW spec and the "Power Needed for 90 dBSPL" spec that InnerFidelity measures?

 

[bareyb]

Quote:

But don't you only need one or two milliwatts to reach deafening levels, or am I misunderstanding the dB/mW spec and the "Power Needed for 90 dBSPL" spec that InnerFidelity measures?

The Benchmark DAC1 is here now, and with the stock setting I have it turned up as loud as it will go and it gets what I'd call fairly loud. Certainly not "deafening" by any means. The way they have it setup (with minus 10 dB) it seems to be designed to be able to crank it up al the way with zero distortion. To that end they have succeeded, but I have to say, the DACMini has more available gain and gets considerably louder (also with little or no distortion). The Benchmark has a much smoother top end (the mini can get a little strident if you push it too hard), but the DACmini has better Bass response and more "slam". It sounds very good, but depending on the song, it's still a bit under powered for my purposes. I think it's more suited as a building block for someone who is going to use the preamp outs to drive a bigger Amp.
 
The DAC in this unit is one of the best I've ever heard. Very detailed without being harsh. Superior to the DAC in the Mini for sure. The next move would be to open it up and remove the -10dB Jumpers so I can get some more gain out of this thing, but I'm really not sure I want to do that considering there is a possibility that I'll be sending it back and I'm not sure the seller would appreciate me cracking open the case. It does seem to be sounding better the longer I let it burn in. I got "Zomboy" on my 500s right now and it's crankin' pretty good. Time will tell...
 
Much will depend on how good the Grace Designs offering is and it will be here tomorrow. It's got almost double the power  and +/- 9 dB's of gain, so I'm expecting good things from it.  If it is clearly superior then I'll likely be sending the Benchmark unit back to the seller. If they both are about the same, then I'll do more critical listening tests and consider keeping the one that simply sounds the best and then using it as a preamp for a more powerful amp. That may end up being what I have to do... 

 

[third_eye]

What source and connection are you using? Let us know how the m903 does!

 

[bareyb]

Quote:

What source and connection are you using? Let us know how the m903 does!

Straight out of my Macbook Pro and iTunes. I'm thinking of buying and installing "Amarra" which is supposed to have much better sound than iTunes. I'm still looking into that... The M903 will be here tomorrow night. I'll let you all know how it works out. 

 

[third_eye]

USB? 
Try Audirvana Plus and Pure Music as well. Free trials, choose the one that sounds best. Any of these will sound better than Itunes.