FiiO KA13 Peak output voltage≥4.2V - FiiO K7 ≥37.7Vpp
[KA3/KA13] FIIO X JADEAUDIO USB DAC DONGLE
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Thanks. I guess this is where I get confused. How much power is actually required? Would an amp that delivers 100V sound better than 37.7V?
When I look it up on Headphonehonesty, they suggest the following for the HD650:
REQUIRED POWER
11.96mw
REQUIRED VOLTAGE
2.00RMS (V)
REQUIRED CURRENT
5.99RMS (mA)
I definitely don't want to shortchange the capability of the headphones, but its not clear to me where that line is vs. paying for unnecessary power that won't be used.
This is a lengthy conversation that I don't have the time to do.
The KA13 is marginally enough. You are going to run out of juice in demanding program and make the amplifier clip especially in lower frequencies where the headphone has a huge impedance jump.
Getting loud is different than properly driving your headphones
Anyway, I didn't said that you can't do the job with the KA13 but you can do better.
Over and out.
Thanks for the help. I appreciate it.This is a lengthy conversation that I don't have the time to do.
The KA13 is marginally enough. You are going to run out of juice in demanding program and make the amplifier clip especially in lower frequencies where the headphone has a huge impedance jump.
Getting loud is different than properly driving your headphones
Anyway, I didn't said that you can't do the job with the KA13 but you can do better.
Over and out.
abm0
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The general rule is: higher power = higher distortion. All else being equal (if you've made up your mind about Bluetooth and other features, have seen no devastating reviews of any of the devices being compared etc.), pick the higher powered device and it will push your headphones to go loud without getting into its high-distortion operating region near its rated max power.
For the HD6xx @300ohms with 103 dB/mW efficiency, playing the loudest music possible that doesn't give most people any permanent hearing damage, i.e. 115 dB_SPL, plus another doubling of power on top of that just for comfortable headroom, i.e. 118 dB_SPL, you need to be able to put 32 mW into them.
* BTR15 BAL-out: 50 mW @300ohm
* KA13 BAL-out: 78 mW @300ohm
* K7(BT) BAL-out: 560 mW @300ohm
They can all do it, but maybe not at the exact same distortion level. Anyway they all have comparable THD+N when turned up to max, somewhere below 0.0008%, so you should be fine with all of them. It's likely to be even better than the published figure, as the typical THD+N when you back off from max power a little hits a "valley" or sweet spot where the absolute lowest THD+N values reside.
For the newer smaller devices I don't think anyone's had the chance to do detailed measurements yet, but the K7 we have graphs from Professor Wolf: https://www-l7audiolab-com.translate.goog/f/fiio-k7/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US
If you look at the THD+N V-shaped graphs you can see the 32 mW point is very close to the bottom of the curve for both BAL-out and PO-out, right in the sweet spot. For single-ended it's even lower than 0.0003%, close to -112 dB, which is almost perfect. You'd have to be blasting the music to 115 dB_SPL, be listening to it in an underground bunker with a natural noise floor lower than 3 dB_SPL and if your ears were perfectly healthy maybe you'd hear the K7's THD+N of 3 dB above zero (112 dB below your music that's now blasting at 115).
Realistically though, all 3 of these would probably do just fine in real-life listening. I enjoyed a ton of music through my 0.003% (only two zeroes after the decimal!) THD+N BTR3 before I ever saw negative comments on a certain measurements forum to the effect that "oh my god 0.003 is atrocious, I can't recommend this device".
LE:
Ah, I haven't thought about impedance plots in a long time, as I've been mostly interested in planars ever since I discovered them. Yeah, if you consider that impedance hump that goes up to 520-ish ohms, it's likely the BTR15 would clip when pushed to max, and the KA13... maybe, maybe not. We need more specs or tests. We don't have any real power values for any of these devices @600 ohms, so it's hard to tell what they would do at our 520 ohm point.
Last edited:
Thank you for the great and very helpful comment! I appreciate it. Yes, I’m leaning towards the K7 to maximize the potential, but didn’t want to spend money unnecessarily, especially if I could get the same sound quality out of a smaller form factor! K7 would involve moving rooms for listening, but isn’t a huge deal if the sound will be better.The general rule is: higher power = higher distortion. All else being equal (if you've made up your mind about Bluetooth and other features, have seen no devastating reviews of any of the devices being compared etc.), pick the higher powered device and it will push your headphones to go loud without getting into its high-distortion operating region near its rated max power.
For the HD6xx @300ohms with 103 dB/mW efficiency, playing the loudest music possible that doesn't give most people any permanent hearing damage, i.e. 115 dB_SPL, plus another doubling of power on top of that just for comfortable headroom, i.e. 118 dB_SPL, you need to be able to put 32 mW into them.
* BTR15 BAL-out: 50 mW @300ohm
* KA13 BAL-out: 78 mW @300ohm
* K7(BT) BAL-out: 560 mW @300ohm
They can all do it, but maybe not at the exact same distortion level. Anyway they all have comparable THD+N when turned up to max, somewhere below 0.0008%, so you should be fine with all of them. It's likely to be even better than the published figure, as the typical THD+N when you back off from max power a little hits a "valley" or sweet spot where the absolute lowest THD+N values reside.
For the newer smaller devices I don't think anyone's had the chance to do detailed measurements yet, but the K7 we have graphs from Professor Wolf: https://www-l7audiolab-com.translate.goog/f/fiio-k7/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US
If you look at the THD+N V-shaped graphs you can see the 32 mW point is very close to the bottom of the curve for both BAL-out and PO-out, right in the sweet spot. For single-ended it's even lower than 0.0003%, close to -112 dB, which is almost perfect. You'd have to be blasting the music to 115 dB_SPL, be listening to it in an underground bunker with a natural noise floor lower than 3 dB_SPL and if your ears were perfectly healthy maybe you'd hear the K7's THD+N of 3 dB above zero (112 dB below your music that's now blasting at 115).
Realistically though, all 3 of these would probably do just fine in real-life listening. I enjoyed a ton of music through my 0.003% (only two zeroes after the decimal!) THD+N BTR3 before I ever saw negative comments on a certain measurements forum to the effect that "oh my god 0.003 is atrocious, I can't recommend this device".
LE:
Ah, I haven't thought about impedance plots in a long time, as I've been mostly interested in planars ever since I discovered them. Yeah, if you consider that impedance hump that goes up to 520-ish ohms, it's likely the BTR15 would clip when pushed to max, and the KA13... maybe, maybe not. We need more specs or tests. We don't have any real power values for any of these devices @600 ohms, so it's hard to tell what they would do at our 520 ohm point.
I can get the K7BT for $325CAD; BTR15 for $150CAD; or KA13 for $110CAD.
abm0
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If you can deal with the headache of re-selling the KA13 in case it doesn't perform well enough, that seems the best bet right now while the mega-discounts are still on IMO.
The general rule is: higher power = higher distortion. All else being equal (if you've made up your mind about Bluetooth and other features, have seen no devastating reviews of any of the devices being compared etc.), pick the higher powered device and it will push your headphones to go loud without getting into its high-distortion operating region near its rated max power.
For the HD6xx @300ohms with 103 dB/mW efficiency, playing the loudest music possible that doesn't give most people any permanent hearing damage, i.e. 115 dB_SPL, plus another doubling of power on top of that just for comfortable headroom, i.e. 118 dB_SPL, you need to be able to put 32 mW into them.
* BTR15 BAL-out: 50 mW @300ohm
* KA13 BAL-out: 78 mW @300ohm
* K7(BT) BAL-out: 560 mW @300ohm
They can all do it, but maybe not at the exact same distortion level. Anyway they all have comparable THD+N when turned up to max, somewhere below 0.0008%, so you should be fine with all of them. It's likely to be even better than the published figure, as the typical THD+N when you back off from max power a little hits a "valley" or sweet spot where the absolute lowest THD+N values reside.
For the newer smaller devices I don't think anyone's had the chance to do detailed measurements yet, but the K7 we have graphs from Professor Wolf: https://www-l7audiolab-com.translate.goog/f/fiio-k7/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US
If you look at the THD+N V-shaped graphs you can see the 32 mW point is very close to the bottom of the curve for both BAL-out and PO-out, right in the sweet spot. For single-ended it's even lower than 0.0003%, close to -112 dB, which is almost perfect. You'd have to be blasting the music to 115 dB_SPL, be listening to it in an underground bunker with a natural noise floor lower than 3 dB_SPL and if your ears were perfectly healthy maybe you'd hear the K7's THD+N of 3 dB above zero (112 dB below your music that's now blasting at 115).
Realistically though, all 3 of these would probably do just fine in real-life listening. I enjoyed a ton of music through my 0.003% (only two zeroes after the decimal!) THD+N BTR3 before I ever saw negative comments on a certain measurements forum to the effect that "oh my god 0.003 is atrocious, I can't recommend this device".
LE:
Ah, I haven't thought about impedance plots in a long time, as I've been mostly interested in planars ever since I discovered them. Yeah, if you consider that impedance hump that goes up to 520-ish ohms, it's likely the BTR15 would clip when pushed to max, and the KA13... maybe, maybe not. We need more specs or tests. We don't have any real power values for any of these devices @600 ohms, so it's hard to tell what they would do at our 520 ohm point.
It's hot only about power output. It is also sound quality. A desktop device always has better power supply and audio architecture so the sound performance is always better.
USB DAC dongles are for convenience, a desktop device of the same quality will always outperform them.
Example: The FiiO KA13 and K11 (that I have both) use the same DAC chip and op-amps configuration. But the sound quality of the K11 is better because of the robust power supply and advanced audio circuit, even when testing with sensitive IEMs.
@ryhon
BTW, why not check the FiiO K11?
Plenty of power to drive the HD6XX, great sound and dirt cheap.
BTW, why not check the FiiO K11?
Plenty of power to drive the HD6XX, great sound and dirt cheap.
abm0
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"Always better"? Haha, no. That's marketing-speak. With the technical performance specs of the latest dongles coming out it's less and less true, especially for driving some less demanding headphones. But then with the human element included it's even less true: since the smaller devices tend to be used in noisier environments they don't even need to satisfy summit-fi criteria because no one will even be able to hear 0.1% THD+N while sitting in a city park, or worse, while doing chores or at the gym. Sure it will matter if you use a dongle to do critical listening at home, but not in the park, so not "always better".
You seem to have misunderstood my writing. "Always better" applies to desktop use in your home environment and with competent earphones - headphones. And I am not referring to measurements but in subjectively perceived audio quality.
If you are a measurements zealot there is no need for further discussion.
So, I certainly agree with you that for the daily basis use that the USB DAC dongles are designed, it doesn't matter a lot and you get excellent performance, especially with the latest and advanced dongles.
But for home use, most dongles get outperformed by similarly priced desktop gear. As an example, comparing the FiiO KA13 with the K11, at home environment, you must be deaf not to hear how much better the K11 is.
Thanks! I’ll check it out for sure. It seemed, based on reviews, that if going the desktop route, the K7 sounds better to most people.
I also have two primary listening spots - my desk and in bed. The Bluetooth seemed convenient to be able to stream music to the dac/amp. Although, I believe the K11 has a usb-c input? That’s an easy enough cord to find from an iPhone and keep the phone and K11 on the nightstand.
Yes, USB type-C.
Strictly speaking, I prefer the sound quality of the K7 but somewhere you said that you don't want to spend much money.
Anyway, good luck choosing
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