[guido]

thx @Gummybuns , so should I go for the 0,75mm pin version for the ZAX?

 

[Gummybuns]

thx @Gummybuns , so should I go for the 0,75mm pin version for the ZAX?

If you have other iems with 2 pin (or might consider buying another). I think it's a good decision.

The plug in the pro version is detachable so you really can buy the QDC version and the 0.75 pin. At least that's what I did when I wanted to use AS10.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

for me the difference between flac and mp3 is clearly audible, my guess is that the way software player handles them and in general the software role and weight in the chain is very underestimated.
after all from a flac to a 320kbps mp3 about 30% of data gets lost, if it can't be heard there must be a flaw in the chain.

That's not even remotely how that would work. 30% of the data may be lost (and actually a FLAC is 1411kbps so it's more like 23% of data is kept) but in terms of fidelity the ear is physically limited to how much it's capable of discerning and when you're talking about 320,000 steps per second that's not an audible loss. It's just not. It'd be like if a 27" screen went from 16K to 8K. Yeah, you're using a quarter the pixels but your eye is NOT going to be able to tell.

There are two arguments that get supremely tiresome on here and one of them is the lossless placebo BS, because it ends up with people thinking they can't enjoy Spotify or Apple Music because it's "lower quality" and that without lossless there's something going on that they can't hear when that's emphatically incorrect. The only time anyone ever hears a difference is Tidal's snake oil comparison because they're trying to sell the HiFi membership.

I've had people take bitrate tests on multi-thousand dollar rigs and not only can't they tell, sometimes people end up picking a 128kbps as the one that "sounds best". If you sit and squint and listen in a rock solid room with a song you know incredibly well and just listen to the two over and over and over again you might be able to tell that there's a difference between the 320 and the lossless file, but you are NEVER going to be able to reliably pick which is which. Moreover, if you were listening to an album and it just randomly flipped from lossless to 320, you would never have any clue.

The modern MP3 codec goes transparent around 320kbps, AAC and Vorbis lower than that. If you prefer to have lossless for the psychological boost, that is 100% cool. I keep a Tidal membership just for that purpose. Sometimes you want the satisfaction of knowing that there's nothing missing in your music. But don't spread misinformation that it's audible.

 

[whitete]

Which connectors did you get for the ZAX?

.75mm C pin.

 

[ZAXon 7]

That's not even remotely how that would work. 30% of the data may be lost (and actually a FLAC is 1411kbps so it's more like 23% of data is kept) but in terms of fidelity the ear is physically limited to how much it's capable of discerning and when you're talking about 320,000 steps per second that's not an audible loss. It's just not. It'd be like if a 27" screen went from 16K to 8K. Yeah, you're using a quarter the pixels but your eye is NOT going to be able to tell.

There are two arguments that get supremely tiresome on here and one of them is the lossless placebo BS, because it ends up with people thinking they can't enjoy Spotify or Apple Music because it's "lower quality" and that without lossless there's something going on that they can't hear when that's emphatically incorrect. The only time anyone ever hears a difference is Tidal's snake oil comparison because they're trying to sell the HiFi membership.

I've had people take bitrate tests on multi-thousand dollar rigs and not only can't they tell, sometimes people end up picking a 128kbps as the one that "sounds best". If you sit and squint and listen in a rock solid room with a song you know incredibly well and just listen to the two over and over and over again you might be able to tell that there's a difference between the 320 and the lossless file, but you are NEVER going to be able to reliably pick which is which. Moreover, if you were listening to an album and it just randomly flipped from lossless to 320, you would never have any clue.

The modern MP3 codec goes transparent around 320kbps, AAC and Vorbis lower than that. If you prefer to have lossless for the psychological boost, that is 100% cool. I keep a Tidal membership just for that purpose. Sometimes you want the satisfaction of knowing that there's nothing missing in your music. But don't spread misinformation that it's audible.

only for the pleasure of exchanging opinions from different points of view, i must say that i have too little experience with speakers as i almost only use headphones and zax on my phone (axon7 mini) so i can't speak about room tests, but when it comes to the equipment i'm used to, i just spot a lossy file 'defects' even on music never heard before. On the other side I've never been able to spot any difference between a flac 44/16 and a hi-res flac or even a sacd. Of course the they depend also on the recording/mixing quality and on the song but nonetheless they are real.

There are a lot of steps from the file to the ear. Given that on this forum the hardware side of the chain is more than adeguate i suggest that the 'problem' lies on the software side, and mainly on the player used. Of course if i use the stock android player or any other player designed to be run on cheap devices i will never spot the difference, but when i use an hi-fi player like neutron or foobar or, much better, onkyo hf player (with which i'm not affiliated in any way) the differences becomes immediately evident, and they become even more evident if i use high quality sound enhancement software like viper4android to which a lossless file reacts much better than a lossy one.

i've raised this issue a couple of times before but with no interest from the other headfiers so i had no idea that it was so delicate (the other one is cables i guess), but i would really like to know how many people here spend time fine tuning the software side of their chain and with which results. Of course the final setup will be a matter of synergy between components and personal tastes but different setups can completely change the listening experience.

 

[voicemaster]

The problem is when people upsampling a 128kbps mp3 to 320kbps mp3. That actually make it sound worse.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

only for the pleasure of exchanging opinions from different points of view, i must say that i have too little experience with speakers as i almost only use headphones and zax on my phone (axon7 mini) so i can't speak about room tests, but when it comes to the equipment i'm used to, i just spot a lossy file 'defects' even on music never heard before. On the other side I've never been able to spot any difference between a flac 44/16 and a hi-res flac or even a sacd. Of course the they depend also on the recording/mixing quality and on the song but nonetheless they are real.

There are a lot of steps from the file to the ear. Given that on this forum the hardware side of the chain is more than adeguate i suggest that the 'problem' lies on the software side, and mainly on the player used. Of course if i use the stock android player or any other player designed to be run on cheap devices i will never spot the difference, but when i use an hi-fi player like neutron or foobar or, much better, onkyo hf player (with which i'm not affiliated in any way) the differences becomes immediately evident, and they become even more evident if i use high quality sound enhancement software like viper4android to which a lossless file reacts much better than a lossy one.

i've raised this issue a couple of times before but with no interest from the other headfiers so i had no idea that it was so delicate (the other one is cables i guess), but i would really like to know how many people here spend time fine tuning the software side of their chain and with which results. Of course the final setup will be a matter of synergy between components and personal tastes but different setups can completely change the listening experience.

If you're claiming to be hearing lossless vs 320 on a phone with the ZAX my skepticism is now large enough to terrify the residents of Tokyo.

That said, you're running these tests when you know what the files are. You're aware of which is which so you're convincing yourself these differences exist. You're getting a placebo effect.

That's really all there is to it. This isn't a matter of opinion, it's not different perspectives. In every blind ABX test, people don't fare better than random choice. But of course people who rip their own files and introduce psychological biases as well as codec questions will always swear up and down that they can hear it.

If you want to continue believing that you can totally hear the different on ChiFi headphones through phone apps that are literally altering the source file, then have at it, but just be aware that it's smoke and mirrors.

 

[PhonoPhi]

If you're claiming to be hearing lossless vs 320 on a phone with the ZAX my skepticism is now large enough to terrify the residents of Tokyo.

That said, you're running these tests when you know what the files are. You're aware of which is which so you're convincing yourself these differences exist. You're getting a placebo effect.

That's really all there is to it. This isn't a matter of opinion, it's not different perspectives. In every blind ABX test, people don't fare better than random choice. But of course people who rip their own files and introduce psychological biases as well as codec questions will always swear up and down that they can hear it.

If you want to continue believing that you can totally hear the different on ChiFi headphones through phone apps that are literally altering the source file, then have at it, but just be aware that it's smoke and mirrors.

This is the KZ thread, right?
(Surely this subject should be in "science thread", where I personally discovered more opionated people than science...)

Two points:
1. What are the physical reasons that "Chi-Fi" (or any IEM for that matter) would be worse than room speakers?? What about near-field vs. far-field resoution?
Then some KZ with their cheerful treble are actually acutely sensitive to overtones and fast attacks to probe compression losses.
In other words, IEMs should be much better monitors than "room speakers" no matter how well calibrated.

2. It has been clearly stated in the claim by @ZAXon 7 that the software processing is involved; mp3 are known to be lossy and thus are largely not suitable for post-processing. This alone gives the valid legitimate reason to distinguish mp3 from lossless files.

 

[artatgray]

It did eliminate the "muddiness" and became more open per se. There's still trade offs on the AutoEQ. Still like ASX with or without it. On Wavelet it works best is you set the reverb setting in "plate" AutoEQ on or off still sounds great.

On a side note. The AutoEQ of AS16 is a bit weird. AS16, although the stage is in front, has a bit of a "breathing room" when the EQ applied the stage is cramped. Weird. Lol.

If I could be bothered making sense of that word salad, I'd respond.

 

[ZAXon 7]

If you're claiming to be hearing lossless vs 320 on a phone with the ZAX my skepticism is now large enough to terrify the residents of Tokyo.

That said, you're running these tests when you know what the files are. You're aware of which is which so you're convincing yourself these differences exist. You're getting a placebo effect.

That's really all there is to it. This isn't a matter of opinion, it's not different perspectives. In every blind ABX test, people don't fare better than random choice. But of course people who rip their own files and introduce psychological biases as well as codec questions will always swear up and down that they can hear it.

If you want to continue believing that you can totally hear the different on ChiFi headphones through phone apps that are literally altering the source file, then have at it, but just be aware that it's smoke and mirrors.

well, the axon has a dedicated AKM AK4962 HiFi dac, so it's not simply a phone and it's not my first phone, i've had some with dedicated dac and some without and i've used a pioneer dap, so on that side i can make some comparisons and, of course, on phones without dedicated dac or cheap mp3 players i can't hear any difference.

what's a matter of fact to me is that if you rip more than a half of the data from a file it cannot sound the same as the lossless file on the same hw/sw chain and the higher is the level of the chain the more this must be true.

it's probably true that a blind test with an equipment one is not familiar with, as good as it can be, produces random results, but hearing the differences on a familiar equipment is not incompatible with that. both things are true to me.

it's also true that software players have their own sound signature, dynamics, soundstage and resolution exactly as iem's have (that is they do make choices about how to reproduce a source like any other component of the chain) and that sound enhancement software alters the source, but the way the source reacts to these choices and alterations is precisely what exposes the difference between lossy and lossless.

 

[cappuchino]

So the EDX is selling for 4.64 USD right now. Is it still relevant in 2021?

 

[cappuchino]

-duplicate post-

 

[Slater]

So the EDX is selling for 4.64 USD right now. Is it still relevant in 2021?

Link?

 

[astermk]

So the EDX is selling for 4.64 USD right now. Is it still relevant in 2021?

I'm unable to find it lower than $7.75. Where is this?

 

[cappuchino]

Shopee, mates. An online marketplace available to those living in SEA. That price is for the mic'd one.

https://shopee.ph/product/64655310/5251330154?smtt=0.174314985-1612226504.9

@Slater and @astermk