I have not jumped on the balanced train. I listen mostly to IEMs, and thus power requirements are typically low, with few exceptions. It has been my understanding (perhaps incorrectly or too simplistically) that using the balanced output of a DAP or portable amp simply increases the power output. Are there any other advantages to listening to IEMs via a balanced output? Are most perceived improvements in sound simply a function of that increased output and loudness effects, something you can duplicate by simply tuning up the volume? I‘d rather not go down this path if there are only minimal benefits. Obviously, with a 1.2 meter IEM cable, I‘m not concerned about noise rejection. Thanks.
Well, what is called "balanced" in the headphone world has nothing to do with a balanced line connection using XLR
Hence noise rejection is not where this is about.
Normally you connect a headphone with a TRS so L,R and a common ground.
You can also use TRRS or a 4 pin XLR so L, Ground L, R, Ground R just as you connect speaker to an amp.
Nothing balanced about this symmetrical connection.
But as you don't have a common ground you now can use an amp having not a common earth e.g. push-pull.
Maybe you improve on crosstalk by going "balanced".
Thanks, that article was very informative, and exactly what I was looking for! Since I can get enough output for all of my IEMs with a SE connection, I don’t need to worry about balanced amplification. Plus, low OI is often very critical with IEMs.
“In many cases, voltage-balanced headphone amplifiers will produce more noise and more distortion than single-ended amplifiers of an identical design. The reason for this is that two separate output amplifiers are required in a voltage-balanced amplifier, and each must drive one half of the transducer's load impedance. The output noise will double because there are two amplifiers instead of one. The damping factor will degrade by a factor of 2 because both amplifiers contribute to the source impedance of the balanced amplifier (output impedance is doubled). Distortion will usually increase because each amplifier is required to drive half of the impedance that would be seen by an unbalanced amplifier. Power consumption will increase by a factor of 4 for a given output level (assuming the power supply voltage rails remain unchanged).
In fairness to balanced designs, I should point out that a balanced output can deliver 4 times the power for a given power supply voltage. However, this would only be necessary if the product was battery operated. The balanced output would offer no real advantage in an AC powered amplifier.”
I think this is a good topic and I would appreciate a comment from someone who has done a lot of switching and maybe A/B testing with it (with IEMs). I personally got 4.4.mm for the first time just this week. I got the TRI I3 in mail along with two different 4.4.mm cables, so I went straight away with 4.4 for that IEM and also gave my Ikko OH1 a new cable. But I'm very unexperienced with comparing sound, and all I can say is that it sounds nice, it isn't worse and I'm going forward with this for now. The cables were pretty cheap so it's a convenient way to try something new. I do recall people saying in the Ibasso DX160 thread that the 4.4mm output sounds "better". I could do some comparison testing myself and probably will at some point, but for now it's better for me to just concentrate in music.
If nothing else, it's nice to be have the freedom to use all the holes in my DX160
I think this is a good topic and I would appreciate a comment from someone who has done a lot of switching and maybe A/B testing with it (with IEMs). I personally got 4.4.mm for the first time just this week. I got the TRI I3 in mail along with two different 4.4.mm cables, so I went straight away with 4.4 for that IEM and also gave my Ikko OH1 a new cable. But I'm very unexperienced with comparing sound, and all I can say is that it sounds nice, it isn't worse and I'm going forward with this for now. The cables were pretty cheap so it's a convenient way to try something new. I do recall people saying in the Ibasso DX160 thread that the 4.4mm output sounds "better". I could do some comparison testing myself and probably will at some point, but for now it's better for me to just concentrate in music.
If nothing else, it's nice to be have the freedom to use all the holes in my DX160
The fact that you have the Tri i3 is significant. That IEM requires a lot of power output, and so running balanced makes sense. I personally don’t have an IEM with such output requirements. I too would appreciate additional information with those that have experience with this.
The fact that you have the Tri i3 is significant. That IEM requires a lot of power output, and so running balanced makes sense. I personally don’t have an IEM with such output requirements. I too would appreciate additional information with those that have experience with this.
Well, doubling the voltage is useful for high-impedance transducers, since they need more to reach loud volumes. Also, consider the damping factor that may affect the IEMs when using balanced. Changes in FR are possible if output impedance changes. To determine the power output, I will leave you these websites (you need the sensitivity/efficiency, impedance, and desired output level in dB SPL):
The fact that you have the Tri i3 is significant. That IEM requires a lot of power output, and so running balanced makes sense. I personally don’t have an IEM with such output requirements. I too would appreciate additional information with those that have experience with this.
At best you get +6dB from balance. How often do you think that an amplifier will clearly not be good enough, but +6dB will completely turn things around? That doesn't seem like a very compelling argument to me. More like an indication that this wasn't the right DAP/amp for your use in the first place if you didn't even have 6dB of extra voltage headroom.
Also there is no voltage limit set in stone for single ended sources. You can easily find single ended DAPs with higher voltage gain than most balanced Sony DAPs for example.
As mentioned, going balance often will double the impedance of the amp, which on some IEMs could cause audible changes in frequency response. Maybe the listener will like that, maybe he won't(my personal experience is mostly negative when using higher impedance amps with IEMs and getting audible FR variations as a result).
Overall, I would suggest to put aside the false "feel good" reasons to want balanced everything(noise rejection and extra power), and to look for what the IEM should avoid(if anything).
At best you get +6dB from balance. How often do you think that an amplifier will clearly not be good enough, but +6dB will completely turn things around? That doesn't seem like a very compelling argument to me. More like an indication that this wasn't the right DAP/amp for your use in the first place if you didn't even have 6dB of extra voltage headroom.
Also there is no voltage limit set in stone for single ended sources. You can easily find single ended DAPs with higher voltage gain than most balanced Sony DAPs for example.
As mentioned, going balance often will double the impedance of the amp, which on some IEMs could cause audible changes in frequency response. Maybe the listener will like that, maybe he won't(my personal experience is mostly negative when using higher impedance amps with IEMs and getting audible FR variations as a result).
Overall, I would suggest to put aside the false "feel good" reasons to want balanced everything(noise rejection and extra power), and to look for what the IEM should avoid(if anything).
I can only give my humble experience results. I use the Sony DAPs; the 1Z, 1A....and the Sony TA-ZH1ES desktop for IEMs. I try not to change cables that much on my flagships, but have had years of trying out different applications of using both 3.5mm single ended and 4.4mm balanced set-ups with both my Fearless S6Rui 5BA IEM and qdc Anole V3 3BA IEM. Also did the test with the Magaosi K5 5BA IEM and BGVP DM6 5BA IEM. In every situation the soundstage was improved using balanced.
Though the response could maybe be from using a different cable?
Though the main IEMs that use exclusively BA drivers have improvement; the other realm is DD IEMs; or in the preceding cases; hybrid DD/BAX2 or BA and DDX2 respectively. If you go to both the XBA-Z5 thread or the IER-Z1R thread every member is in 100% agreement on balanced being better, though this may be power related?
Testing:
Even an adapter used together with the same cable can be an affecting issue? IMO
That’s the problem; very few people are going to have two exact same cables to do the test. It seems even if the manufacture included two cables (3.5mm and 4.4mm)...it’s still questionable if the 3.5mm single ended is exactly the same build. The only correct way to do a subjective test would be to make your own test cables, and make them the same.
As far as noise goes the Sony DAPs are dead silent so I never hear background noise. I’m not worried about added 2X amplifier noise. Also questionable is the fact the it’s actually two different amplifiers in the DAPs. One side is balanced and one side (underneath) is 3.5mm single ended.
In ending, with my subjective listening tests balanced is the way to go, adding better imaging and better separation and soundstage.
In my experience every IEM was a slightly different experience of benefit. The XBA-Z5 and IER-Z1R was a big deal. The qdc Anole V3 very subtle but appreciated. The BGVP DM6 did have a slight difference and the Magaosi K5 was minimal if not a wash going balanced. So as always it’s the combination of equipment (DAP/IEM) and what is important to you. I’m really into soundstage and imaging. The Fearless S6Rui I’ve gone back and forth the most and it’s a nice difference going balanced. Yet it has to be mentioned that this phenomenon is probably DAP related too, where it’s going to be more noted with some DAPs?
AFAIK: This is all about the electrical characteristics of the source's design, there is nothing inherent to IEMs that benefits merely by being either balanced or SE.
In my experience: If your source has BAL it may be worth trying* - some BAL sources seem to have suboptimal SE. If your source is SE and you like it, personally would not fret about it.
*If you are a gear nerd, welcome to adapter hell. IMO it's worth activelyavoiding BAL for that reason alone.
AFAIK: This is all about the electrical characteristics of the source's design, there is nothing inherent to IEMs that benefits merely by being either balanced or SE.
In my experience: If your source has BAL it may be worth trying* - some BAL sources seem to have suboptimal SE. If your source is SE and you like it, personally would not fret about it.
*If you are a gear nerd, welcome to adapter hell. IMO it's worth activelyavoiding BAL for that reason alone.
Never used an adapter? I do agree it could all be in using a different and possibly better designed/built amplifier in the balanced side of the DAPs. My experience is highly limited. Single ended or balanced cables pretty much cost the same. There may be a slight price increase for 4.4mm, but it’s minimal? Also for DAPs the 4.4mm is actually more ergonomic in my use. It’s simply easier to handle a bigger plug......also more surface area for contact.
My three Sony amplifier products are 4.4mm. So 4.4mm for full-size and 4.4mm for IEMs; no adapters.
AFAIK: This is all about the electrical characteristics of the source's design, there is nothing inherent to IEMs that benefits merely by being either balanced or SE.
In my experience: If your source has BAL it may be worth trying* - some BAL sources seem to have suboptimal SE. If your source is SE and you like it, personally would not fret about it.
*If you are a gear nerd, welcome to adapter hell. IMO it's worth activelyavoiding BAL for that reason alone.
It could be a DAP by DAP thing where people find balanced only to be an improvement on SOME products.
Also each amplifier is set up different. Meaning the Sony TA has a XLR4 balanced and 4.4mm balanced as well as 3.5mmX2 balanced. The single ended is louder than the 4.4mm output? Haven’t tried XLR4?
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