[NeedSomeAudioHelp]

I'm looking for a dap with no radio frequencies - no wireless connectivity whatsoever and no mic, work requirements.

I'm looking for a dap to run some iems, blessing 2s, and potentially some fiio fhe (the fiio x crinacle) or some other cheaper more disposable headphones like kz or whatever, just want it to work well, be reliable, okay FLAC files in CD quality, and have as long a battery life as long as possible, 8-10 hours or longer would be ideal. Worse comes to worst I can charge it up with a power bank or something, which isn't ideal but will get the job done.

The options I found were either one of the zishan daps, I don't know exactly which one, but I heard good things about them.
Another option I saw was a pipod with a raspberry pi zero which should also work for my needs since it has no wireless connections from what I saw.

How would the pipod compare to a zishan alternative in terms of quality, reliability, "neutrality" and battery life? And are there any other better options? I'm open to DIYing something like the pipod or some other device if it'll net me a better dap overall

I was also wondering if I'd need an amp or would the dap just work find standalone?

I don't want to overspend if not necessary but am willing to spend up to 150 bucks or so if necessary.

Thanks in advance

 

[earmonger]

How about something really vintage, like an old iPod or FiiO X1 or X3 player on Ebay.

I have no knowledge of or connection with the seller, but for instance: https://www.ebay.com/itm/203691645473?hash=item2f6cf7da21

 

[NeedSomeAudioHelp]

How is the battery life on these things? And would I get a better sound than what I'd get with something new for a similar price?

And thanks!

How about something really vintage, like an old iPod or FiiO X1 or X3 player on Ebay.

I have no knowledge of or connection with the seller, but for instance: https://www.ebay.com/itm/203691645473?hash=item2f6cf7da21

 

[earmonger]

Battery life for the X3 was supposed to be 10 hours.
https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/63375.html

Probably less in real life, and an old unit would have some decline in battery life--it depends on its past usage.

Presumably sound is some incremement better in newer devices, but that increment might be extremely tiny. The FiiO X3 was effusively praised for its sound quality when it came out, and then then 2d gen was also praised as an improvement, but there's some audiophile new-toy syndrome to take into account. I have a first-gen X3, still keeps its charge quite nicely. The interface is a little clunky but the sound is fine--not as good as my AK70 but certainly good enough.

The reason I've suggested vintage stuff is that just about everything has Bluetooth now. The FiiO X3 didn't add Bluetooth until its 3d generation (MKiii), so you're offline with either the original or 2d gen. If your job allows Bluetooth (but not Wi-Fi), you have more and newer options.

 

[NeedSomeAudioHelp]

Battery life for the X3 was supposed to be 10 hours.
https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/63375.html

Probably less in real life, and an old unit would have some decline in battery life--it depends on its past usage.

Presumably sound is some incremement better in newer devices, but that increment might be extremely tiny. The FiiO X3 was effusively praised for its sound quality when it came out, and then then 2d gen was also praised as an improvement, but there's some audiophile new-toy syndrome to take into account. I have a first-gen X3, still keeps its charge quite nicely. The interface is a little clunky but the sound is fine--not as good as my AK70 but certainly good enough.

The reason I've suggested vintage stuff is that just about everything has Bluetooth now. The FiiO X3 didn't add Bluetooth until its 3d generation (MKiii), so you're offline with either the original or 2d gen. If your job allows Bluetooth (but not Wi-Fi), you have more and newer options.

Thanks, I looked into it, and saw that both the X1 1st gen and the X3 1st and 2nd gen are options, with the X3 being a bit more powerful and better audio wise, but almost double the price

I'll have a look at what I can find used, and I can always replace a battery (I think)

I just wonder if I'll get better audio from one of the zishans with no wireless capabilities or some other newer option for around the same price

 

[earmonger]

I was just looking at the FiiO site to doublecheck specs, and there's this now, $70, no BT or Wi-Fi, claims amazing battery life. Seems to get good reviews.
https://www.fiio.com/m3k

 

[HipHopScribe]

I was just looking at the FiiO site to doublecheck specs, and there's this now, $70, no BT or Wi-Fi, claims amazing battery life. Seems to get good reviews.
https://www.fiio.com/m3k

I think this has a microphone.

 

[NeedSomeAudioHelp]

I was just looking at the FiiO site to doublecheck specs, and there's this now, $70, no BT or Wi-Fi, claims amazing battery life. Seems to get good reviews.
https://www.fiio.com/m3k

Yeah I saw it when looking yesterday or something, it has a microphone unfortunately, I might be allowed to use it if I remove it, I need to see if there's any convenient way to do that, as well as if they'll allow it cause it has the capability to record

 

[whitedragem]

As an audiofool who loves their amplifiers to be ‘integrated’ and not ‘receivers’, I am a big fan of dual mono topologies and NO WIRELESS.

It is true that removing the radio frequencies (shielding) isn’t always a given, but in order to own kit of a quality level that justifies going ‘radio free’, the price point is indeed ‘higher’ for landing something truly special.

If we consider the inquiry to be ‘radio free’ simply as a workplace requirement, from this perspective Sound Quality isn’t the determining factor; your price point WILL net you something special (if you go secondhand, and wait for the appropriate bargain to surface)- as most people are moving towards subscription services and demand that everything is ’better with bluetooth’.

On my search, and above your present price point (when I last purchased ‘one-two years ago’) is the world ‘reference class’ transport (flogs everything costing less and most stuff costing more), the Questyle QP1R.
There is a QP1 product that sold for 50% less coin, and was simply without the 100 odd hardware rotations that Questyle went through to ‘tune’ the sound circuit.
Of note is their ’current mode’ amplification tech.
Whilst I used the QP1R to (attempt to) drive some planars (Audeze Sine and Hifiman Sundara), it really would benefit from ‘outboard power amplification’ for over ear headphones.
For earbuds it is a little monster;

As a transport it flogs most kit (this is important as it literally READS more accurately YOUR music) (will render better localisation of individual performers in an orchestra etc)
and as a ‘mini headphone amp’, it features Questyles’ patented ‘current mode‘ amplification, which seems to offer good reviews in the desktop amps they make.. (award winning).

They are a sealed unit and I cannot imagine anyone pulling one apart to replace a battery, the idea of running a small USB power brick with it (years from now, in order to keep it ‘working’) wouldn’t put me off.
There shouldn’t be any difference between the QP1 vs the QP1R for digital transport duties (ie feeding an external DAC), so you will also be buying yourself a grade A audio source that will serve in most hifi rigs for ‘many years to come’.

Again, I know these are (just) out of your pricepoint, but will naturally turn up from time to time and be A RUDDY BARGAIN everytime!

Questyle found that they had undersold the units and with the next three successive updates to the lineup (eg QP2/QP2R) they hugely jacked the pricepoint up to match the quality level they were offering.
The version one products, especially the QP1 (non ‘R’) should prove to be right audio bargains and worthwhile for many many years to come.
They are clunky and slow interfaces with horrible controls (fixed by placing a sticker on the main ‘wheel’ that improves grip and smooths rotation).
Yet- they hold their own against hyper expensive transports in terms of sound quality.
The fact that the included headphone amp will drive IEMs/earbuds at a quality level VASTLY better than any tier 4-5 kit (the cheap stuff that most of us buy), and that the current mode output will assist ‘preamp’ duties as well, this is the basis of a true ‘high fidelity‘ system.

If that might justify another few quid to the purchase, then my words here might prove practical help.
Again, ye be at the mercy of the market.

At the crux of your question is the idea that parts are evolving and that we are getting better ‘bang for buck’ with newer kit. (no)
Definately ’second hand’ would be my advice; ideally some flagship part from yesteryear (with a slow and clunky interface etc; but- focus on ULTIMATE SOUND QUALITY).

Old saying ‘you get what you pay for’, often has little correlation regarding hifi preferences, but a highly marked down piece of (flagship) kit will return many dividends on the investment made.
Also a second hand part, well selected, will have lost all of the value it is likely to drop, so the resell on it should be close to the outlay. (safe investment, so long as ‘works’ and ‘reliable’)

QP1 was on Drop, so quite a few of them should have made it to ‘the wild’ and hopefully the users have ‘moved on’ to new patents and features and are willing to forgo the EXCEPTIONAL SOUND QUALITY.

Don’t wish to be ‘off topic’, but I have bought several QP1R units and I would buy more in a heartbeat. A QP1 wouldn’t dissuade me in the slightest, so long as it was cheaper still.....
Anynow- add Questyle QPx series as ‘wireless free’ devices. (Questyle stating that they couldn’t keep the sound quality ‘top tier’ AND add wireless) (most bargain ‘wireless free’ parts will have no such benefit)

 

[surfgeorge]

I'm looking for a dap with no radio frequencies - no wireless connectivity whatsoever and no mic, work requirements.

I'm looking for a dap to run some iems, blessing 2s, and potentially some fiio fhe (the fiio x crinacle) or some other cheaper more disposable headphones like kz or whatever, just want it to work well, be reliable, okay FLAC files in CD quality, and have as long a battery life as long as possible, 8-10 hours or longer would be ideal. Worse comes to worst I can charge it up with a power bank or something, which isn't ideal but will get the job done.

The options I found were either one of the zishan daps, I don't know exactly which one, but I heard good things about them.
Another option I saw was a pipod with a raspberry pi zero which should also work for my needs since it has no wireless connections from what I saw.

How would the pipod compare to a zishan alternative in terms of quality, reliability, "neutrality" and battery life? And are there any other better options? I'm open to DIYing something like the pipod or some other device if it'll net me a better dap overall

I was also wondering if I'd need an amp or would the dap just work find standalone?

I don't want to overspend if not necessary but am willing to spend up to 150 bucks or so if necessary.

Thanks in advance

XDUOO seems to have what you are looking for.
https://xduoo.net/product/xduoo-x10-audio-player/
https://xduoo.net/product/xduoo-d3-audio-player/

Double check it, but I think there's no wireless functionality at all on these 2 players

 

[NeedSomeAudioHelp]

As an audiofool who loves their amplifiers to be ‘integrated’ and not ‘receivers’, I am a big fan of dual mono topologies and NO WIRELESS.

It is true that removing the radio frequencies (shielding) isn’t always a given, but in order to own kit of a quality level that justifies going ‘radio free’, the price point is indeed ‘higher’ for landing something truly special.

If we consider the inquiry to be ‘radio free’ simply as a workplace requirement, from this perspective Sound Quality isn’t the determining factor; your price point WILL net you something special (if you go secondhand, and wait for the appropriate bargain to surface)- as most people are moving towards subscription services and demand that everything is ’better with bluetooth’.

On my search, and above your present price point (when I last purchased ‘one-two years ago’) is the world ‘reference class’ transport (flogs everything costing less and most stuff costing more), the Questyle QP1R.
There is a QP1 product that sold for 50% less coin, and was simply without the 100 odd hardware rotations that Questyle went through to ‘tune’ the sound circuit.
Of note is their ’current mode’ amplification tech.
Whilst I used the QP1R to (attempt to) drive some planars (Audeze Sine and Hifiman Sundara), it really would benefit from ‘outboard power amplification’ for over ear headphones.
For earbuds it is a little monster;

As a transport it flogs most kit (this is important as it literally READS more accurately YOUR music) (will render better localisation of individual performers in an orchestra etc)
and as a ‘mini headphone amp’, it features Questyles’ patented ‘current mode‘ amplification, which seems to offer good reviews in the desktop amps they make.. (award winning).

They are a sealed unit and I cannot imagine anyone pulling one apart to replace a battery, the idea of running a small USB power brick with it (years from now, in order to keep it ‘working’) wouldn’t put me off.
There shouldn’t be any difference between the QP1 vs the QP1R for digital transport duties (ie feeding an external DAC), so you will also be buying yourself a grade A audio source that will serve in most hifi rigs for ‘many years to come’.

Again, I know these are (just) out of your pricepoint, but will naturally turn up from time to time and be A RUDDY BARGAIN everytime!

Questyle found that they had undersold the units and with the next three successive updates to the lineup (eg QP2/QP2R) they hugely jacked the pricepoint up to match the quality level they were offering.
The version one products, especially the QP1 (non ‘R’) should prove to be right audio bargains and worthwhile for many many years to come.
They are clunky and slow interfaces with horrible controls (fixed by placing a sticker on the main ‘wheel’ that improves grip and smooths rotation).
Yet- they hold their own against hyper expensive transports in terms of sound quality.
The fact that the included headphone amp will drive IEMs/earbuds at a quality level VASTLY better than any tier 4-5 kit (the cheap stuff that most of us buy), and that the current mode output will assist ‘preamp’ duties as well, this is the basis of a true ‘high fidelity‘ system.

If that might justify another few quid to the purchase, then my words here might prove practical help.
Again, ye be at the mercy of the market.

At the crux of your question is the idea that parts are evolving and that we are getting better ‘bang for buck’ with newer kit. (no)
Definately ’second hand’ would be my advice; ideally some flagship part from yesteryear (with a slow and clunky interface etc; but- focus on ULTIMATE SOUND QUALITY).

Old saying ‘you get what you pay for’, often has little correlation regarding hifi preferences, but a highly marked down piece of (flagship) kit will return many dividends on the investment made.
Also a second hand part, well selected, will have lost all of the value it is likely to drop, so the resell on it should be close to the outlay. (safe investment, so long as ‘works’ and ‘reliable’)

QP1 was on Drop, so quite a few of them should have made it to ‘the wild’ and hopefully the users have ‘moved on’ to new patents and features and are willing to forgo the EXCEPTIONAL SOUND QUALITY.

Don’t wish to be ‘off topic’, but I have bought several QP1R units and I would buy more in a heartbeat. A QP1 wouldn’t dissuade me in the slightest, so long as it was cheaper still.....
Anynow- add Questyle QPx series as ‘wireless free’ devices. (Questyle stating that they couldn’t keep the sound quality ‘top tier’ AND add wireless) (most bargain ‘wireless free’ parts will have no such benefit)

What would be a reasonable price to expect to pay for the qp1 used? And what other models would you recommend looking at in my price point on the used market? And is there anything specific I should look for it try to avoid?

 

[whitedragem]

What would be a reasonable price to expect to pay for the qp1 used? And what other models would you recommend looking at in my price point on the used market? And is there anything specific I should look for it try to avoid?

Cheers for follow up focus:
So I want to be clear- I am in Australia, and I am not 100% on market equivalent prices. (I am sure my internal currency converter sometimes doesn’t ‘date refresh’ and can be out of gear/sync with the world.)
The last QP1R I bought was $500 (Aus) and that included postage from Canada etc.
The person I bought it for, offered to sell it back to me, somewhat recently, including the official leather case I had found for them, AND some Audeze Sine on-ear planars I had sold previously..
For the total price of $500.

I nearly contacted them today as I figured the cost split would get ‘close’ to your ‘upper number’.
I didn’t for quite a few reasons, but the biggest is that neither of us need the stress of international postage, and the last thing I want to do is ‘be the person who overspends someone elses’ budget’!

The Drop price on the QP1 (I could easily be wrong here) was $300 US dollars, at which point I would think three years later, is worth ‘much less’ to resell. The numbers do not quite tally to a ‘neat’ $150 split,.. but it was enough for me to mention the part to you, as ‘luck of the draw’ re: second hand market...
-the intention was to give you ‘yet another model’ to keep an eye out for
&
to qualify that some audio parts would choose to go wireless free (not to save money) for increased sound quality. Not the norm as consumers vote with wallets and EVERYONES WALLETS seem to want bluetooth earbuds...

Other parts to recommend?
Hard to say- if that requirement was put on me, I’d be using a gen1 Apple Shuffle within half an hour, simply to be ‘up and running’.
Ultimately I’d be looking to some of the esoteric music players that were built right around the time the audio market moved to headphones (starting mid 2000s). Hifiman HM-601(or any of those early kickbutt players) would be incredibly satisfying to use...
You would feel like you have stepped back in time (which is how some reviewers felt about those parts even on release).

I’d logically work on basis that portable audio is high disposable wealth market and many ‘flavour of the moment purchases’ are made, and often resold.
Second hand headphones have very poor resale value when sold NOT on dedicated forums/by ‘randoms’... and by extension ‘out of date’ DAC CHIPS (silly lot that we are that think that a DAC chip has a ‘sound’) such as what is used in the HM-601 might mean that someone doesn’t really recognise what they are holding onto, and should let it go ‘super cheap’.

Would I take a questyle for twice the price? probably.. but for $100 US dollars I would think you have A LOT OF OPTIONS; but as all things at the mercy of the second hand market- when?!

So- you probably are on the right line of thinking with supplying yourself something from an actual ‘in supply’ retail chain. (even if ‘value for money’ won’t be equal to an older part if only factoring PURELY sound quality; useability improvements might make it the best thing since ‘sliced bread’.
To be fair on ‘clunky kit’- it ISN”T FOR EVERYONE. - a lot of people would never put up with a FiiO X5 version III (which I loved; again:‘sound quality’) (it is no good for your search- it has radios), but that older FiiO made upgrading to an even clunkier Questyle ‘very easy’. (again: sound quality).

I know my preference (I buy purely for sound quality), but when it comes to portable players - many things can take preference.
The great guy that I sourced a Questyle for- he had exchanged with me an older ’hi end’ Sony DAP, it was something I had really wanted to buy ‘on release’, but to have it five years later for close to free/‘peanuts’ meant I was always happy taking it out of the house/on public transport etc.. ( a junkie lifted it from me recently while I was ‘in public’)

Having kit of ‘low perceived value’ equals having ‘no fear‘ with it. This can lead to a much more enjoyable time...
Like having a digital camera that you can take in the pool- all of a sudden the ‘use scenarios’ grows; the cheap lightweight music player might be a great running companion etc.

In fairness- audio quality and perceived sound is mostly going to come from your earbuds of choice- sure amps can improve some headphones and IEMs considerably- but investing MORE MONEY into your buds will probably net you more perceived sound engagement and enjoyment than some internet randoms‘ (me) word about ‘some great kit’.

I would buy the great kit if the intention was to keep using it for a long time -ie it may become a bedroom system music source down the track/once done with present task...
I wouldn’t stress about finding exceptional kit just cause someone tells me ‘the truth is out there’ (the KIT is out there?)

If a Questyle QP1 had the option of landing in your lap for $175 would you buy it? (rhetoric)
how about for $200?
how about for $200 with a scratch down the screen?
I am not selling one- just highlighting that boundaries are easily ameliorated when we get excited or feel we are close to closure on a project - I do not want you to compromise, and you have shared some clear words on aspects of your requirements and hopes.. You are the perfect polite forum member and I want to encourage joy associated with headfi engagement (I like this community!!

For within your budget I feel you will net a lot of proper ‘short list‘ candidates..
if this thread is active for a few days, and you get a few more recommendations, then the market range you have to shop around in is MUCH MORE LIKELY to hit every target you seek,.. (ten hour battery life may be a stretch /‘wink’)

I’d probably be tempted to some lil player and add an external wallet sized amp module... (I like stacking)

Actually let me check- my childs’ first music player took me a year to find (I wanted the S-master circuitry) and I think it is here and floating around doing ‘nothing’. At the very least let me get you the model number as I am sure it is radio free.....

 

[whitedragem]

Brilliant- it is radio free: (NWZ-A845)

here is the webpage link to the official product page on the Sony website
https://www.sony.com.au/electronics...c-players-nwza-series/nwz-a845/specifications
No radios!!

So- it has low power output capability (I found it ‘good enough’ for sensitive IEMS, but my model is the European version that has a volume cap placed on it (meaning that if you use the graphic equaliser and raise all levels you get back that volume, undistored too)(I never had to do this)

It has limited space and is S L O W to copy files onto it.

Is it the perfect little music player? pretty much...

I paid under your budget limit around seven years ago.
Pretty sure you will have an easy time landing one for cheap, again, assuming the second hand market has any up... (I’d need to check my headfi rules, but I have offered many times to loan kit on to people; only complicated by postage costs.. Importantly I DO HAVE the ‘custom USB cable needed to charge it’. (I have kept this one with a float charge/‘proper battery maintenance’.

The sound quality was as good most music players, and the S-Master circuit gives non destructive reequalisation (not the norm).

Here shown beside a mini FiiO headphone amp... good pocket stack? (the black and white blur is my cat getting in on the action)

grins /‘good luck’. (I didn’t compare that part against your initial post so the player may miss the mark dramatically)

 

[NeedSomeAudioHelp]

S

Brilliant- it is radio free: (NWZ-A845)

here is the webpage link to the official product page on the Sony website
https://www.sony.com.au/electronics...c-players-nwza-series/nwz-a845/specifications
No radios!!

So- it has low power output capability (I found it ‘good enough’ for sensitive IEMS, but my model is the European version that has a volume cap placed on it (meaning that if you use the graphic equaliser and raise all levels you get back that volume, undistored too)(I never had to do this)

It has limited space and is S L O W to copy files onto it.

Is it the perfect little music player? pretty much...

I paid under your budget limit around seven years ago.
Pretty sure you will have an easy time landing one for cheap, again, assuming the second hand market has any up... (I’d need to check my headfi rules, but I have offered many times to loan kit on to people; only complicated by postage costs.. Importantly I DO HAVE the ‘custom USB cable needed to charge it’. (I have kept this one with a float charge/‘proper battery maintenance’.

The sound quality was as good most music players, and the S-Master circuit gives non destructive reequalisation (not the norm).


Here shown beside a mini FiiO headphone amp... good pocket stack? (the black and white blur is my cat getting in on the action)

grins /‘good luck’. (I didn’t compare that part against your initial post so the player may miss the mark dramatically)

Seems like the Sony has fm radio, which I think unfortunately disqualifies it, I'll have to double check tho

I'll keep an eye out for the ones you mentioned, and have a look for some older reviews of daps before wifi and Bluetooth was a thing people looked for and see what I can find on the used market

Thanks for all the help!

 

[whitedragem]

To reiterate HiFiman portable players were the rolls royce (for sound quality) back in ‘the day’.
The Sony does have FM radio,- I believe the headphones have to be plugged in for it to work. I have worked in quite a few government buildings /security zones with ‘strange requirements’ and FM radio free has never been one of them.
The professor on Gilligans Island (old TV show) no doubt made them from coconuts, and a dental filling has, on occasion, turned a human being into a glorified radio receiver.
The active word here is receiver... An FM transmitter probably might be frowned upon.

...&, Cheers for your cheer!