[taoster]

After owning the HD580+Cardas and reading the raves on this particular combo, I finally splurged on a pair of HD650+Zu. After some initial burn-in, the HD650+Zu sounded really uneven, really terrible, I had real doubt that they would improve to a point of beening listenable. Now that they are burnt-in, or at least for most part I believe the HD650 is burnt-in and the Zu should be close at over 300hrs.

So I begun giving the new phone more critical listening. The most obvious thing is that the HD650 is a definite winner against the HD580. It does everything better, especially the flawed lower mid range that *sounds* emphasised and bloated on the HD580. The Hd650 also gave a more refined sound and better extension, partly due to its more neutral and flatter eq response.

The cable however has been giving me grief, I really want to like the Zu but they are just not as good as the Cardas! My only assumption is a system synergy or that my source may not be up to scratch. I don't know but based on my system the Cardas do sound better and here is why.

The Cardas although not as extended or focused as the Zu gives the sound meaning. On the Cardas, the guitar has the texture sound of a real guitar, voices are just there and instruments that you could visualise and touch. The Zu in comparison is dull, lackluster, about as exciting as an acrobatic sound sweep. Technically superior in every way, especially the lower mid range, bass, extension. It also has more air and is close to neutral eq! The Cardas is inferior in all of these aspects and yet is the better cable to me. It adds an almost tubey glow to the sound, it has textures in abundence and makes listening easy, you want to hear more of the music and not the phone.

Based on my own observation I was very much surprised that the Zu is praised as much as it is here. Is this a case of bad system matching or maybe its showing up my source? I don't know, but from my setup the Cardas is doing more right than the Zu.

love to hear those who has heard both cable and help me conclude whether to sell those Zu

 

[JaZZ]

You're not alone, Tao!

I am/was one of the unconditional Zu Mobius advocates myself -- until recently, when I had to detect that it wasn't such a good match with my new source, the McCormack UDP-1. I began to like the previously disdained Silber Dragon better in this configuration. Now that I had to send it in for repair, I had to content myself with the Mobius again; but then Tao (saint.panda

) lent me his Headphile silver cable in exchange for the Mobius, and this possibly creates an even better synergy. Gone the tendency to lackluster mids and overly sharp highs, and there's better texture and higher musicality as well.

The Zu Mobius still sounds excellent with the Bel Canto as source, so don't understand this as a disqualification -- it remains one of the best HD-650 replacement cables, but nevertheless isn't the best solution for all systems. It's a matter of synergy. (I never heard the Cardas.)

 

[taoster]

Hi Marcel, Its nice to know it has more to do with system matching than an inadequate source, kind of, sorta! I hate to think as i upgrade my source the worse cardas is going to sound!

It's a shame because there is a lot of things the Zu is doing right but it just lack the emotional aspect. Ross's cable assessment got me intrigued on the blue dragon as he didn't rate the Cardas too highly either, and to my ears I can believe that. The Cardas has a lot of flaws compared with the Zu.

Do you think a little over 300hrs is enough burn-in? what kind of improvement would the last 50hrs give?

are you enjoying burning in the McCormack UDP-1?

 

[Mastergill]

Cardas rule man!

IMO with the ZU you have a perfect exemple of internet hype build-up.

A new phone came in, HD650, with a more flat and better frequency response. Suddenly the Cardas which was highly praised for HD600 became obsolete with HD650. Why? 'cause this better freq. response, with slightly less harsh and bright treble was felt by many as recessed highs respect to the HD600, so a silver based cable was the right tool to get back to that highs emphasis that many love and sometime think that is ultimate transparency.

And then new HD650 owners, who never had HD600 + Cardas, bought the ZU cable based on good comment here...and yes of course the ZU is better than the stock...so these newcomers will 'feed the hype' and so on...without giving a chance to the Cardas.

taoster, what you describe about Cardas is exactely why i love these cables, they can give real texture to the sound, or at least they don't remove it from the original signal. From bass to treble they are also extremely balanced.

If you want extreme transparency while keeping all these texture quality i strongly recommend a custom Neutral Reference HD6XX cable. Yes, HD650 can be amazingly tranparent and fast.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by taoster Do you think a little over 300hrs is enough burn-in? what kind of improvement would the last 50hrs give?

From my own experience 300 hours should be enough, for the Zu Mobius anyway.

Quote:

Are you enjoying burning in the McCormack UDP-1?

Burning in a component is always a little annoying for me -- it creates a trembling incertainty I would rather renounce, I would like to have the final result, the optimum sound from the start. I think it's done now, so now is the time for system fine-tuning, a case for cables.

A new source is the worst thing, even worse than new headphones. The whole previous system synergy is destroyed.

That doesn't mean it sounds worse than before, by no means. But the sonic balance has shifted and has to be evened out again. I was on the right track, and then the Silver Dragon's right channel died...

 

[tonyli3]

Hi,just noticed this thread and am in the process of burning in some hd650's,having heard a pair when they first came out i thought perhaps they were not right for me after at one point owning the 600's and not getting on that well with the top end of the treble but jumping to the present and having taken the plunge after hearing a lot of people praising the changes that sennheiser have made thought i would give them a decent trial and with a growing number of hours on them must admit the top end has lost all signs of harshness i associated with the 600's and the bass is deeper with better extension than i remember with the previos model,now the thing is my current setup is already very detailed as a general rule but i still have this feeling that the 650's are capable of opening up a little more and being even more transparent? the zu mobius would have to be imported from the US which might prove a pain if i decided to send it back,on the other hand i can get a cardas for a decent price from someone here in the UK,BUT the cable is sealed in its packaging and the owner will not open in order to find out if it's a version 1 or 2 now it appears that cardas claim both versions of their cable sound identical but user's on this forum have tended to suggest that the version 2 sounds supperior? i am of course wondering weather to take a chance and just buy the cable regardless of weather its a version 1or2,has anyone got some thoughts on this,thanks.

 

[nierika]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastergill If you want extreme transparency while keeping all these texture quality i strongly recommend a custom Neutral Reference HD6XX cable. Yes, HD650 can be amazingly tranparent and fast.

Just out of curiosity, how much would a 3.0m custom Neutral Reference cost?

 

[Mastergill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nierika Just out of curiosity, how much would a 3.0m custom Neutral Reference cost?

I paid €575 one year ago for 3 meter, but this include 20% VAT and maybe 10% importer mark-up as i'm living in France.

You have to contact your local Cardas dealer and ask for a price quotation.
In USA it should cost something like $300-400.

BTW i only recommend this cable when everything else is top-notch in a HD650 setup.

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Quote:

Originally Posted by taoster Do you think a little over 300hrs is enough burn-in? what kind of improvement would the last 50hrs give?

Toaster,

IME, when it comes to aftermarket cables, you need lots and lots of time to fully burn-in a cable. I ran the Equinox cable I own for almost 1000 hours before taking the time to seriously listen to it. Turn on a tuner, plug the Zu equipped cans into the headphone jack, and forget about it for another 10 days. The extra time should help with settling the cable down and getting rid of anything peeky in the sound. It can't hurt, so why not run it for a bit more time before selling it or buying something else to possible replace it?

 

[taoster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ServinginEcuador Toaster, IME, when it comes to aftermarket cables, you need lots and lots of time to fully burn-in a cable. I ran the Equinox cable I own for almost 1000 hours before taking the time to seriously listen to it. Turn on a tuner, plug the Zu equipped cans into the headphone jack, and forget about it for another 10 days. The extra time should help with settling the cable down and getting rid of anything peeky in the sound. It can't hurt, so why not run it for a bit more time before selling it or buying something else to possible replace it?

ill do that and try more variety of music to test. As you can see, i really would love to love the Zu.

 

[tonyli3]

I can't compare the zu and cardas at the moment but added the cardas to my 650's yesterday and was not prepared for the difference it made,i have owned [with stock cable] both the 600's and now the 650's without perhaps feeling all the talk of senn upgrade cables was realistic,not now though! changing from stock to cardas feels like i've just opened a window and allowed the senns to breath and do their job properly,i bit like taking away a fine layer of grit,for the first time i am VERY happy listening to a pair of senn's,if the zu is a little brighter in the treble i think i'd prefer to play safe with the cardas