[malifact]

   
As I understand it, yes.
 

Oh dear, if that's true about the Viento it's really disappointing as I had more or less settled on getting that.  The Sony XBA-H3 has vents and the isolation really suffers as a result.  I guess my search for a CIEM continues.

 

[tomscy2000]

  Oh dear, if that's true about the Viento it's really disappointing as I had more or less settled on getting that.  The Sony XBA-H3 has vents and the isolation really suffers as a result.  I guess my search for a CIEM continues.

 
I think it's hard to draw the parallel between CIEMs with vents and universal IEMs with vents. Other than Etymotic products and the InEar Stage Driver series, all other universal IEMs, in my experience do not measure up to CIEMs in terms of real-world isolation.
 
While I've never experienced a CIEM with vents, I don't believe it'll be as poor in the isolation department as is the XBA-H3. Sony designs in general tend to have sub-par isolation, even amongst universal IEMs.

 

[Barra]

​The way I read AJ's review, the Hiditions and the SE5 still walked all over the Lear LCM4.2 for everything that is important to me. I know at this level all TOTL CIEMs are all excellent and choosing the right product comes down to personal presentation preferences.
 
But really, when going to a concert to see your favorite performer - who wants nose bleed seats when they have access to front row or VIP on stage passes? 

 
 
AJ, do you have the LCM4.2 on your CIEM SQ chart yet? I seemed to have lost the link as it no longer gets me there.

 

[malifact]

   
I think it's hard to draw the parallel between CIEMs with vents and universal IEMs with vents. Other than Etymotic products and the InEar Stage Driver series, all other universal IEMs, in my experience do not measure up to CIEMs in terms of real-world isolation.
 
While I've never experienced a CIEM with vents, I don't believe it'll be as poor in the isolation department as is the XBA-H3. Sony designs in general tend to have sub-par isolation, even amongst universal IEMs.

 
Thanks, I appreciate the post.  I can't really take the risk, as I'm buying a CIEM to use for a noisy commute and I listen at low volumes.  So isolation is second important to me after sound signature.

 

[tomscy2000]

  Thanks, I appreciate the post.  I can't really take the risk, as I'm buying a CIEM to use for a noisy commute and I listen at low volumes.  So isolation is second important to me after sound signature.

 
As do I. The safe thing to do is to get a fully-sealed, either acrylic or silicone CIEM. To me, the real-world isolation is actually about the same between acrylic and silicone. Silicone is better at blocking out some frequencies, while worse in others, whereas acrylic seems more even in its isolation profile. Overall, the effect is similar, IMHO.

 

[Mython]

http://theheadphonelist.com/custom-in-ear-monitors-reviews-list/custom-in-ear-monitors-review-previews/#Viento-R :
 
"Center imaging of the Viento-R is better which can cause the BD4.2 to sound slightly hollow in comparison"
 
 
 
This is only speculation, on my part, but I wonder if this might, perhaps, point to phase manipulation being employed with the treble driver configuration, in order to achieve a more spacious sound.

 

[SilverEars]

  http://theheadphonelist.com/custom-in-ear-monitors-reviews-list/custom-in-ear-monitors-review-previews/#Viento-R :
 
"Center imaging of the Viento-R is better which can cause the BD4.2 to sound slightly hollow in comparison"
 
 
 
This is only speculation, on my part, but I wonder if this might, perhaps, point to phase manipulation being employed with the treble driver configuration, in order to achieve a more spacious sound.

Do you have more information about this?  Sounds interesting.  

   I notice atleast with my NT-6 there is dimentionality to the sound and sound can get spacious depending on the source compared to my V3 and universals.  For some reason sources powered from the wall does that.  Portable that gets to that level is the AK240.  Don't know what causes it.  

 

[Mython]

Reading my post again, I realise it was slightly ambiguous - I was referring to the alleged 'hollow' sound of the Lear 4.2, not the sound of the Viento-R.
 
 
If you've ever played around with a phase-varying control on a Hi-fi, you'll understand what I mean when I say that it can make the sound seem more spacious, but somehow the brain interprets certain degrees of phase-shift as sounding somewhat 'hollow'.  It's very difficult to describe, really. My experience of this was with my brother's Sony midi system, back in the early 1990s.
 
The effect is more noticeable when one has a potentiometer to vary the phase gradually, from 0 - 180 degrees of phase shift, but you can get some idea of the peculiar sound of phase shift if you deliberately invert the polarity of one loudspeaker (or headphone channel). That creates a 180 degree phase shift.
 
 
I could be completely wrong about all this, in relation to the Lear 4.2. It's just that Joe's remark rang a bell in my mind, when he mentioned spaciousness being a characteristic of the Lear 4.2, and then made the above-quoted remark about a slight subjective 'hollowness' to the sound, at times.
 
Either way, it doesn't put me off the Lear 4.2. No CIEM is perfect (including the SE-5... yawn). The way I see it, one has to choose to settle upon which compromises they are willing to accept, not if they are willing to accept compromises. Compromises are a fact of CIEM life, and there's no escaping that fact, more's the pity 

 

 

[average_joe]

Hey Joe, yes to be honest I would like to learn what are the problems with universal version and whether LEAR fixes those problems. I believe, there is a bigger problem than just only tip dependent sound. I also remember reading bad things about the LUF version in Australian tour so I guess while LCM version is perfectly fine, the LUF version has a couple of bad things that LEAR hasn't fixed, yet.
 
As for the SE5way comment, I was kinda joking. Yes I see the overall score is higher but when it comes to that level, it all depends on personal preferences. As I stated before in many places, I love my SE5way, that product opened up my eyes and made me realize what I actually enjoy and look for in audio reproduction. I believe the 4.2 has the answers for me. Laid back spacious sound, adjustable bass levels from mild presence to bone shattering, relatively relaxed and polite treble but still a little brighter than SE5way and generally forgiving signature instead of showing the faults of recordings. Natural approach perfect ADSR. Only if I had cash to burn, I would be ordering it.
 
However, I am still waiting to see how LEAR will fix the LUF versions problems.

 
The LUF version with triple flange tips scored quite well preliminarily...a bit better than the S-EM6 overall.  Of course, I still have much more to do in time. 

  I was interested in the Lear as Joe recommended it to me a few pages back with the Hidition Viento-R.  However, based on Joe's comparison between the two the Viento-R is brighter and I like the fact you can boost the mids as well as the bass.  So I think it's the Viento for me.
 
By the way, does ported design mean the same thing as vented shells?

 
Ported and vented are pretty much the same, but the driver type can make a difference.  For example, the Viento-R uses all BA drivers, and if they are sealed drivers, and I couldn't find any vents on the Viento-R drivers, there is no direct path to the sound tube.  A dynamic driver on the other hand essentially has an open back, so sound will pass through the driver.
 

   
Geeez.... I guess I've been busted!!

 
OK, OK, I admit it - I just read the part of the review that talks about sound quality!!

 

 

  Your point is valid. However, I assess CIEMs from two perspectives:
 
- preferences;
 
- technical capabilities.
 
I used to focus mainly on my preferred sound signature, which of course was changing over time (I started with bassy IEMs, then I moved to analytical Hf3/ER4s and Custom Art Pro210, then I moved to balanced, clear sounding Custom Art Pro330v2 and Cosmic Ears BA4r, now I have natural, organic 5ways). Nowadays I'm focusing more on the technical capabilities, but of course I'm not disregarding the sound signature. Still I can't stand very bright or very dark phones.
By technical capability I mean:
 
- natural/accurate PRaT (5ways are ideal in this respect. I'm a little bit surprised that you wrote that those Lears have very good PRaT because according to Rin Choi measurements it have very short decay. My perspective is that short decay does not equal natural PRaT. But, maybe the fact that Rin Choi measured universal version of those Lears has something to do about this);
 
- instrument separation (after owning 2ways, 3ways and 5ways system I think that the number of ways plays a big role in this respect; I believe that the fact that each driver has its own tube influences intrument separation and as a result micro-details);
 
- resolution; 
 
- bass extension;
 
- highs extension;
 
- dynamics;
 
- clearness of the sounds;
 
- 3D soundstage, with emphasis on deepness;
 
- spaciousness.
 
 
Balanced type of sound, emotional vocals, transparency, agressive/laid back presentation and soundstage width I throw into "preferences" category.

 
I would consider anything above 90 overall in my chart as TOTL and offer some special characteristics.  While not yet in the chart, the Viento-R and H8P are also in that category.  
 
I won't get into it here, but my ears don't agree with the conclusions Rin comes to most of the time.  As quoted from my SE5 comparison "During playback of neutral tracks, note thickness of the BD4.2 is slightly thinner than the SE5, but overall capability is similar and they both have a very natural note decay."  I spent quite a bit of time on this comparison and the PRaT is closer to the SE5 than most other CIEMs.
 
All of the technical characteristics mentioned are built into the overall score.  Also, I don't believe everything can be characterized by physical characteristics (sound tubes, crossover points, etc.).
 

  Oh dear, if that's true about the Viento it's really disappointing as I had more or less settled on getting that.  The Sony XBA-H3 has vents and the isolation really suffers as a result.  I guess my search for a CIEM continues.

 
 

  ​The way I read AJ's review, the Hiditions and the SE5 still walked all over the Lear LCM4.2 for everything that is important to me. I know at this level all TOTL CIEMs are all excellent and choosing the right product comes down to personal presentation preferences.
 
But really, when going to a concert to see your favorite performer - who wants nose bleed seats when they have access to front row or VIP on stage passes? 

 
 
AJ, do you have the LCM4.2 on your CIEM SQ chart yet? I seemed to have lost the link as it no longer gets me there.

 
They both have their strengths and weaknesses, and with poor quality tracks I preferred the BD4.2 because the SE5 sounded worse as it revealed the issues.  List (or chart).
 

   
Thanks, I appreciate the post.  I can't really take the risk, as I'm buying a CIEM to use for a noisy commute and I listen at low volumes.  So isolation is second important to me after sound signature.

 
Silicone IMO, or the SA-43, which is acrylic filled with silicone.  
 
I was in a plane today and I put in the LCM BD4.2 with no music.  I could hear the lady up a few rows talking loudly.  For me, CIEMs don't block out sound completely when I am in my "aware" mode in public or at work.  I took those out and put in the EarWerkz Legend.  All frequencies were similarly isolated except the lady was maybe 2 dB quieter.  Not a big difference, but a difference.
 

   
As do I. The safe thing to do is to get a fully-sealed, either acrylic or silicone CIEM. To me, the real-world isolation is actually about the same between acrylic and silicone. Silicone is better at blocking out some frequencies, while worse in others, whereas acrylic seems more even in its isolation profile. Overall, the effect is similar, IMHO.

 
In my experience, silicone blocks noise across the spectrum better, but I think people's different physiology can change they way CIEMs isolate.  Also, canal length and fit play their part.
 

  http://theheadphonelist.com/custom-in-ear-monitors-reviews-list/custom-in-ear-monitors-review-previews/#Viento-R :
 
"Center imaging of the Viento-R is better which can cause the BD4.2 to sound slightly hollow in comparison"
 
 
This is only speculation, on my part, but I wonder if this might, perhaps, point to phase manipulation being employed with the treble driver configuration, in order to achieve a more spacious sound.

 
I heard it, so I mentioned it.  What it really means is the Viento-R has exceptional center imaging and a more forward presentation, which in comparison with the more laid-back and spacious BD4.2 gives the sense of the midrange being a slight bit absent.  The Sony EX1000 had a big issue with this in comparison with something like the SM3 among other examples I could provide.  Does the BD4.2 sound hollow in general, no, not at all.  In comparison with the Viento-R, slightly.  

 

[shakur1996]

  I would consider anything above 90 overall in my chart as TOTL and offer some special characteristics.  While not yet in the chart, the Viento-R and H8P are also in that category.  

AJ is it possible to see how each CIEM scores in each particular category and not only the overall scores? I can't find this info on theheadphonelist.com.

 

[tupac0306]

wow...99.1...Looks like my break is over...

 

[AmberOzL]

  wow...99.1...Looks like my break is over...

You have been in a break? lol

 

[tupac0306]

 
You have been in a break? lol

haha. yes, I haven't bought anything for 4 months. that's the longest break I have had in 3 years

 

[AmberOzL]

  haha. yes, I haven't bought anything for 4 months. that's the longest break I have had in 3 years

No no I don't believe you, show me proof or something, I am sure you must have bought 5 customs 3 universals and at least 2 daps plus a couple of different cables during that time

 

[tupac0306]

But on a serious note, several of my friends who has owned or auditioned LCM BD4.2, none of them really liked it. On the opposite, most of them hated it. hmm. There might be a difference between the custom and universal versions. So I am actually surprised it's ranked so high.