[headstef]

I mean it's a $1500 sounding headphone that's being sold for $600 for the pro market.

I read the following brief comparison between the HD-800S and the Utopia 2022 that you posted today:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sen...d-read-first-post-for-summary.795365/page-538
and then remembered another very detailed and very enthusiastic comparison of the NDH 30 with other flagships that you posted months ago:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/neumann-ndh-30.963439/page-43#post-17424040
After all these months of use of various highly competent headphones is that comparison still valid; Would you change anything in those comments and grades about the NDH 30?

 

[headstef]

Well after 2 weeks on the open market no fish were biting, not even a nibble .....Lifted my self imposed ban, so going try and give these 30s another chance once these pads I ordered arrive, may be a few weeks though.

Chances are that they will sound more balanced with the original pads but given that you don't like the original sound you might like more a variation of it. I hope you do.
What happened with your order of the black version? Did you cancel it in time?

 

[jonathan c]

: “How many recordings would sound ‘better’ / reflect artist(s) intention had NDH-30 been in use by recording engineers for mixing / mastering?” …

 

[Plieb]

: “How many recordings would sound ‘better’ / reflect artist(s) intention had NDH-30 been in use by recording engineers for mixing / mastering?” …

According to some people you would probably have very bright recordings with exaggerated mids.

 

[headstef]

: “How many recordings would sound ‘better’ / reflect artist(s) intention had NDH-30 been in use by recording engineers for mixing / mastering?” …

You can read the last half of this thread of a pro-users forum:
https://gearspace.com/board/product...ew-neumann-ndh-30-open-back-headphones-3.html

 

[chesebert]

I read the following brief comparison between the HD-800S and the Utopia 2022 that you posted today:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sen...d-read-first-post-for-summary.795365/page-538
and then remembered another very detailed and very enthusiastic comparison of the NDH 30 with other flagships that you posted months ago:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/neumann-ndh-30.963439/page-43#post-17424040
After all these months of use of various highly competent headphones is that comparison still valid; Would you change anything in those comments and grades about the NDH 30?

In my original impression I noted the strong visceral impact of NDH30 and queried whether it was better than Utopia. It's not but also not that far behind.

I noted the mid range purity is among the best and voices and instruments sound very and natural. In a back to back comparison between NDH30, 800S and Utopia 2022 I would say NDH30 is probably a half a step behind 800S, which is itself a half a step behind Utopia 2022. I probably knock back the original score from 4.5 to 4.25 out of 5. The corresponding score for timbre should be 4.5, given the Utopia 2022 has added certain additional "weight" and fullness to each note regardless of volume being played at (there is more information rendered by Utopia 2022).

Treble realism, extension and smoothness are all better on Utopia 2022. If RAAL sounds even more realistic and HE1 is smoother than Utopia 2022, I think NDH30 is probably a half a step down from Utopia 2022. I would keep the score at 4.5 rather than say it's between 4.5-5 (that's where Utopia 2022 falls)

Soundstage is probably fine as is - it's accurate as intended by the mastering engineer.

The rest of the impression still looks good to me.

Edit: for most people the only meaningful differences between NDH30 and Utopia 2022 are the added midrange and treble smoothness, purity, naturalness and realism as well as the added weight and fullness of the notes. The rest of the differences you won't really hear once your brain has had a chance to adjust to the difference. I also note Utopia 2022 is easier to drive than NDH30 and 800S, and all three are very sensitive to equipment quality and source quality.

 

[chesebert]

: “How many recordings would sound ‘better’ / reflect artist(s) intention had NDH-30 been in use by recording engineers for mixing / mastering?” …

It depends. I have heard a saying that if you tend to mix bright you want a bright headphone or monitor. If you tend to mix dark, you want a dark and warm headphone or monitor.

 

[jonathan c]

It depends. I have heard a saying that if you tend to mix bright you want a bright headphone or monitor. If you tend to mix dark, you want a dark and warm headphone or monitor.

Does it not depend, also, upon whether the mixing bright / mixing dark is unintentional or is purposeful? If the former, it makes sense that a using bright / dark headphone or monitor would help to compensate for an unrealised tendency.

 

[bizkid]

Every good audio engineer is going to use reference tracks while he goes along mixing and knows his speakers and headphones inside out. Mixing too bright on dark headphones happens to beginners definitely not the pro.

 

[headstef]

Every good audio engineer is going to use reference tracks while he goes along mixing and knows his speakers and headphones inside out. Mixing too bright on dark headphones happens to beginners definitely not the pro.

Verified by the fact that we come across a very small percentage of unbalanced modern recordings (dark or bright).

 

[Mike F]

Every good audio engineer is going to use reference tracks while he goes along mixing and knows his speakers and headphones inside out. Mixing too bright on dark headphones happens to beginners definitely not the pro.

Absolutely. It's worth remembering that some people (who know what they are doing) still use the Sony 7506 for mixing and mastering (along with speakers). When mixing and mastering it's all about knowing how your headphones translate - nothing more, nothing less. The only reason for wanting as good (neutral, natural sounding) a headphone as possible is that it makes the job of learning how they translate easier.

Edit: It's worth just adding that sometimes recording engineers intentionally use headphones/speakers that an audiophile wouldn't touch with a barge pole precisely because they sound horrible and will show up anything that might be wrong in the mix. The Yamaha NS-10 is a classic example.

 

[Rob80b]

What happened with your order of the black version? Did you cancel it in time?

The black where still on back order at the time and a $300 savings on an unopened silver pair made more sense although in hindsight I could have returned them but currently stuck with the silver.

Chances are that they will sound more balanced with the original pads but given that you don't like the original sound you might like more a variation of it.

That's the plan, it's not that the Neumann don't sound balanced to me, they may be too balanced for "my preferences" to enjoy music, to be entertained. As I mentioned I believe the NDH30 sound exactly as Neumann intended.

As posted elsewhere from a review.
"After my first tests with the NDH 30 I am pleasantly surprised: the sound is certainly comparable to that of my MA-1
system, which consists of KH120 and KH750 monitors.....
.......... If you set the same volume on both, you might almost think that you are using your listening station, when in reality, you’re
using your headphones. Fascinating!"
https://www.neumann.com/globalasset...ofessional_audio_review_neumann_ndh_30_en.pdf

Anyway all's been said previously, so we will see.

 

[Buckie]

I also note Utopia 2022 is easier to drive than NDH30 and 800S, and all three are very sensitive to equipment quality and source quality.

Oh indeed. I noticed how vastly different NDH 30s sound on Apogee Groove and Duet 2. And perceptually the opposite of how those two interfaces drive speakers (that is to say Duet 2 on NDH 30 sounds more like Groove connected to speakers and vice versa, give or take). I'd like to know exactly why that happens, to understand what kind of DACs fit and what don't.

 

[Mike F]

Rob, thanks for sharing this review:-

https://www.neumann.com/globalasset...ofessional_audio_review_neumann_ndh_30_en.pdf

I hadn’t previously seen it.

 

[chesebert]

Oh indeed. I noticed how vastly different NDH 30s sound on Apogee Groove and Duet 2. And perceptually the opposite of how those two interfaces drive speakers (that is to say Duet 2 on NDH 30 sounds more like Groove connected to speakers and vice versa, give or take). I'd like to know exactly why that happens, to understand what kind of DACs fit and what don't.

I like NDH30 with a neutral but musical dac that is free of "digital sound", free of any initial "wow" factor and that is not overly precise or etched sounding.