New Dali iO-12 ANC Headphones – Impressions Thread
Jan 14, 2024 at 1:48 PM Post #391 of 1,181
I have never really liked neutral tuned headphones. I find them boring,

That's ok, is your preference. But, please say, at least, that the the song I posting a link for is beautiful/brilliant/great/wonderful/amazing/really nice -- this will making my previous post seeming worthwhile.

but I’m really eager to hear the IO-12

The WB2022 is very possibly the best headphone for you, this is my honest impression after reading all your posts in this thread (even when, I must admitting, I never hearing the WB2022). But try the iO-12, if you can, so you can satisfying your curiosity.

When we say neutral are we talking Harmon or what?

"I have never really liked neutral tunes headphones" --- So, when you say neutral yourself, are you talking Harmon (sic) or what?
 
Jan 14, 2024 at 3:01 PM Post #392 of 1,181
That's ok, is your preference. But, please say, at least, that the the song I posting a link for is beautiful/brilliant/great/wonderful/amazing/really nice -- this will making my previous post seeming worthwhile.



The WB2022 is very possibly the best headphone for you, this is my honest impression after reading all your posts in this thread (even when, I must admitting, I never hearing the WB2022). But try the iO-12, if you can, so you can satisfying your curiosity.



"I have never really liked neutral tunes headphones" --- So, when you say neutral yourself, are you talking Harmon (sic) or what?
Usually in my experience neutral is equated with Harmon. When you say neutral is that what you mean?
 
Jan 15, 2024 at 7:02 AM Post #393 of 1,181
Hello,

New review just published from on-mag.fr :

https://www.on-mag.fr/index.php/top...-de-la-hifi-haut-de-gamme-en-toute-simplicite

Overall they says that IO-12 is between hifi and nomad but not as hifi as the Focal Bathys which wins the battle.

Interesting graph that they measured between ANC ON/OFF :

1705320031765.jpeg



Have a good read :)
 
Jan 15, 2024 at 7:11 AM Post #394 of 1,181
> Overall they says that IO-12 is between hifi and nomad but not as hifi as the Focal Bathys which wins the battle.

Very interesting assessment. For me the distance in quality between IO-12 and Bathys is almost as large as between IO-12 and PX8 (which is "night and day").
 
Jan 15, 2024 at 8:01 AM Post #395 of 1,181
> Overall they says that IO-12 is between hifi and nomad but not as hifi as the Focal Bathys which wins the battle.

Very interesting assessment. For me the distance in quality between IO-12 and Bathys is almost as large as between IO-12 and PX8 (which is "night and day").

I'm personally very sceptical of majority of audio (online) magazines' opinions, and of (supposedly) audio reviewers in this types of magazines, audio forums and YouTube 'reviews'. This types of (online) magazines, in general, have sponsors, and this being a French magazine and Focal, manufacturer of Bathys, being a French company, well,...

But, anyway, looking at this graph (I don't know how good is the equipment they're using for measurements) of the best sound ("hi-fi" setting with ANC off), we can seeing that the bass is have generally good linearity, with only -3dB difference between 250Hz and 50Hz, and then -3dB more from 50Hz to 30Hz (50Hz is already a very low frequency). The Bathys have a bass boost of about +5dB in this part of the spectrum, more typical of Harman tuning.

Is also interesting, for me, seeing a treble peak in 4.5kHz in the iO-12, and a similar amount of peak in the HD800 (that I own) but is in 6kHz and this is why I have clearly more problems with the HD800's tonal balance in this part of the spectrum than with the iO-12.

But FR is one important aspect. The type of driver, damping, distortion, etc. are others factors that contributing to sound too. From my memory of the Bathys, for me the iO-12 is a clear preference sonically, but I'm sure some others people will thinking the opposite.
 
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Jan 15, 2024 at 8:22 AM Post #396 of 1,181
Hello,

New review just published from on-mag.fr :

https://www.on-mag.fr/index.php/top...-de-la-hifi-haut-de-gamme-en-toute-simplicite

Overall they says that IO-12 is between hifi and nomad but not as hifi as the Focal Bathys which wins the battle.

Interesting graph that they measured between ANC ON/OFF :

1705320031765.jpeg


Have a good read :)

They said (translated) "Conversely, the IO12 is frankly effective in telephone calls", but fail to mention the call volume control limitations. That's another problem with reviews. They typically aren't trying to live with them. They're just doing their checklist... and I agree with @angelom, I'm guessing the last item on that list is "Make sure the Bathys wins 🤣"

To be honest, I'd be happy with the Bathys if they weren't so uncomfortable and ugly.
 
Jan 15, 2024 at 10:38 AM Post #397 of 1,181
Hello,

New review just published from on-mag.fr :

https://www.on-mag.fr/index.php/top...-de-la-hifi-haut-de-gamme-en-toute-simplicite

Overall they says that IO-12 is between hifi and nomad but not as hifi as the Focal Bathys which wins the battle.

Interesting graph that they measured between ANC ON/OFF :

1705320031765.jpeg


Have a good read :)
This FR is interesting and suggest a lot of mid bass and mid emphasis. Is that what you guys are hearing? I realize FR doesn’t always tell the story.
 
Jan 15, 2024 at 10:48 AM Post #398 of 1,181
This FR is interesting and suggest a lot of mid bass and mid emphasis. Is that what you guys are hearing? I realize FR doesn’t always tell the story.

"A lot of mid bass"?! Really?? From 1kHz all the way down to 50Hz you only seeing a maximum difference of 3dBs!...and this is only peaking +3dB at 250 Hz (the majority of time is either +1dB or +2dB), this is mostly a very linear curve in this BIG part of the spectrum. I think you must doing a serious revision of how you must interpreting a FR graph.
 
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Jan 15, 2024 at 11:39 AM Post #399 of 1,181
and this being a French magazine and Focal, manufacturer of Bathys, being a French company, well,...
Every ears are different, and as always, some will prefer Bathys, some IO-12.
Personally I never tried Bathys yet but I really would like to give a try to the IO-12 first
 
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Jan 15, 2024 at 2:55 PM Post #400 of 1,181
Has anyone tried these with the new iPhone 15s USB-C out? Any problems/how did you like it?
 
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Jan 16, 2024 at 10:19 AM Post #402 of 1,181
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Jan 16, 2024 at 3:29 PM Post #404 of 1,181
For those who haven't seen it yet: Maukey has ranked the IO-12 1a), soundwise!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sid...l-5909-m-d-mw75-focal-bathys-and-more.958727/

I find these comparisons pretty consistent with my quick listening experiences.

The FR measurement of the IO-12 in the French magazine looks very bad with that 5-6K peak, and not typical of an active headphone, but it seems it was meant to be used with ANC on.

When/if I make up my mind to buy them, I can measure them against some passive headphones (HD650, D7200, D9200, e-stats, etc). Not that it would be conclusive, but a spectrogram would be more revealing to me than the FR. My interest in these headphones is purely as wireless ANC with acceptable sound for mainly home / office use. For that they need to sound at least butter smooth, not harsh, or hard (like Focals, Hifimans etc), with good body, tonality, harmonic structure.

The drivers Dali uses might make this possible, but that driver enclosure looks cheap, and the digital processing seems to be very basic. I can't imagine them being able to compete with e-stats in any aspects, as Dali has been stating, but let's see. If they would compete with closed headphones with bio-cellulose drivers of similar price range, that would be good enough. These headphones look like a compromise made for the 1000 eur bracket, likely having the M&L 5909 in mind for competition, focusing on putting the best driver in a cost optimized enclosure, with minimal DSP and no app costs.
Intuition tells I should wait for their next model, that will possibly redraw this compromise based on their first real experiences with this market.
But they look interesting enough to buy, and I like Dali products and design approaches.

What I hope to see in the future is a headphone with drivers and enclosure on par with the Denon D9200 (or D7200), but made wireless with NC. Focal and others have attempted that, but with too basic drivers. This seems to be the first serious driver used in wireless headphones, but the acoustic environment looks compromised, probably thinking they will compensate this with DSP. Making a very shallow cost estimation, IMHO Denon could probably make a wireless D7200 for around 1000 euros, which might wipe the floor with the competition (but being less portable). I am not sure the T+A Solitaire T drivers qualify for this level, but currently they seem to be the safest bet for my preferences outlined above.

A side note: it seems it would be easy to attach other ear pads to the Dali, if someone needs smaller or deeper pads. The sound will surely change. Deeper pads will elevate the midbass (and might make it less clear / more muddy), and smaller opening will reduce / alter the sound stage. To me these ear pads look very close to what I wished to see, so I keep quiet :).
 
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