[reginalb]

Actually I believe Schiit's claim to fame is their "megaburrito" "closed-form" interpolation filter which allegedly yields higher fidelity upsampling by having the upsampled signal pass through the original sample points. (This does make it a precondition that the DAC has at least as many bits as the original signal, otherwise such a claim makes no sense).

I believe that a "correct" interpolation that always passes through the original sample points would require an infinitely steep reconstruction / lowpass filter, whereas a realizable filter that always passes through the original sample points as a precondition would have suboptimal fidelity when the source signal encroaches upon the transition band of the lowpass filter compared to one that allows deviation from the original sample points. I cannot offer mathematical proof of this, but I did find that e.g. Adobe Audition produces an interpolation that passes through the original sample points in its waveform previews but not when asked to perform permanent interpolation. It would seem reasonable to suppose that Adobe found a "megaburrito"-esque interpolation is desirable when the goal is to keep the sample points where they are for visualization, but not when the goal is to resample the audio for actual listening.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/784602/chord-mojo-the-official-thread-please-read-the-3rd-post/16095#post_12511348
http://www.head-fi.org/t/784602/chord-mojo-the-official-thread-please-read-the-3rd-post/16110#post_12511405

Rob (of competing company Chord) gave his own take on the matter, which was also that preserving the original samples in upsampling was problematic.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/784602/chord-mojo-the-official-thread-please-read-the-3rd-post/16170#post_12513178

As for Rob's claims of transient timing, he never responded to this:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/769647/objectivists-board-room/1635#post_12203380

And there you have it--the core technologies of the leading audio companies of two countries, discredited in one post. If anybody took this seriously, the REAL Head-Fi SWAT team will be kicking down the door to my flat in a moment...

 
Hmm, I'd love to hear Mike Moffat's response to your assertions.
 
Regarding Rob's claims of transient timing - I did notice his lack of response to that post when I was reading through this thread. As I said, he at least stated: "My designs do X better," which allows us to go see if X does (or even can) matter. I have not seen anything like that about the Schiit that I can make heads or tails of. That said, I do thank you for your links, their burrito filtering is something that I've not seen a ton about, though I guess there are probably white papers around somewhere that I might be able to dig up.

 

[Ruben123]

The toxic cable thread is such a nice place to be... Lol
There are even cable experts in it discussing how many hours the burn in should take

 

[StanD]

The toxic cable thread is such a nice place to be... Lol
There are even cable experts in it discussing how many hours the burn in should take

What if you have a short fuse? Is the burn in any faster?
 

 

[Ruben123]

Nice to see you again! Welcome back Stan.

No I think you don't quite understand. Burn in has to happen at a bit higher that listener's volume, with a variety of music or preferably sine waves. Best would be to burn in both ways but since most cables already have their jacks on them... Backwards burning in would be quite hard. If not impossible. Which leaves some rough edges to the sound...

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Love all the talk of directionality on cables which carry AC sound signals, as if we only need to hear sound waves that move in one direction... a table fan should make the best loudspeaker there is I guess.

 

[StanD]

Nice to see you again! Welcome back Stan.

No I think you don't quite understand. Burn in has to happen at a bit higher that listener's volume, with a variety of music or preferably sine waves. Best would be to burn in both ways but since most cables already have their jacks on them... Backwards burning in would be quite hard. If not impossible. Which leaves some rough edges to the sound...

 
Nice to be back. I've been far too busy with work, however, I always manage time to listen to music.
 

Love all the talk of directionality on cables which carry AC sound signals, as if we only need to hear sound waves that move in one direction... a table fan should make the best loudspeaker there is I guess.

So what's the next big thing? SWR in headphone cables? That would be excellent fuel for the fertile imaginations of audiophiles. So how long would a headphone cable for this to become and issue? I'm sure that someone is willing to take that on as audio talking point.

 

[Ancipital]

I feel like that on here. The more I learn the less I know!

 
But that's a good thing. If you're convinced about your own infallibility, then you're probably suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. 

 

[mulder01]

Ok so I was wondering if I could get some objective based suggestions on a reasonably priced 1 box dac/amp combo for an Abyss.  I've never asked this in any other part of the forum because I already know what the answers will be - you need to spend $5k+ or you won't get the most out of them and blah blah blah.  So if we can forget the price tag for a moment and look at the fact that they are a 46 ohm highly resistive planar headphone and go solely off that, I think this is the only place where people are open minded enough to be able to do that.  
 
I have a friend with an Abyss and he bought a Ragnarok for his and already owned an o2 dac/amp.  He mentioned to me that they were pretty much indistinguishable because the 'voicing' (am I allowed to use that term here?) was very similar.  I looked at the more powerful offering from JDS - the element, but figured that might be similar in sound but just more powerful.  I bought an ifi iDSD micro which I thought would be my dream come true - reasonable price, portable, dac/amp in one, recharges off usb while you're not using it, plenty of power, but it was a bit on the clinical side for me and I found it fatiguing after half an hour or so, so I had to sell.  I am currently using a flagship violectric amp.  Does it matter that it's a flagship amp?  Or do I just like it because of the "house sound" Violectric has?  Probably the latter.  The amp I have is widely considered to be on the "musical" or "warm" or "coloured" rather than "detailed" or "analytical".  I wondered if there was an objectively suitable solution for reasonable money that could be equally as suitable as what I have in specs and in sound signature.
 
I keep reading all the time about how there's no point in spending big $ on electronics because you can get equal performance for not very much money, and I have to say, especially from the dacs I've tried, and also a bit from the amps I've tried, that I agree.  It's just that while my last purchase of the idsd may have been suitable on paper and subjectively better than the amp I have for some people, I wondered if anyone could suggest anything that would be suitable for the given load (only own one pair of headphones) and likely also suited more to my tastes.  My thinking is, if I can get the same performance for less money, I may as well sell what I've got, buy the budget option and pocket the change, because, well, why not...

 

[Ancipital]

If you're looking at competent* solid state amps, they shouldn't colour the sound anyway, surely? If one did, wouldn't that be a bad sign? Do you want headphones with a different signature? A hybrid amp? Some EQ?
 
A shallow part of me loves the retro-brutalist look of those Violectric amps, I'd happily swap you a Schiit solid state amp for it *duck*
 
 
 
*The spec being sufficient for your headphones, and there being no obvious howlers in the design/construction.

 

[SodaBoy]

The Audio-GD NFB-29 and NFB-28 are very good integrated DAC/amps at a reasonable price. The relay-based volume control has excellent channel balance throughout the full range. It is too easy to stick a cheap volume pot into an amp and sell it for north of a grand. Manufacturers like to put up eyepopping numbers like 130 db DNR, but many don't publish channel imbalance figures, I wonder why?
 
In the DIY world, we pay a lot of attention to the volume control and there are two common approaches that I know of. If there is enough DNR in the DAC, we can control the volume digital side through the DAC, and the amp acts as a wire with gain with no volume pot in the chain. The other approach is analog side, and uses a stepped attenuator, which can come in a variety of implementations. This approach in my opinion provides the best outcomes, but is also the most expensive. In the turnkey world, Resonessence adopts the former approach (digital), while Audio-GD adopts the latter (analog), both are valid approaches.
 
I don't think it is necessary to spend big money on a setup so long as you keep in mind that price ≠ capability. A $2999 amp is not necessarily better than a $600 one, for many brands you pay for a lifestyle image and exclusivity. The NFB-29H is $680, it comes with everything that I would want and a remote, I'm not aware of anything that even matches it at its price point. 

 

[mulder01]

  If you're looking at competent* solid state amps, they shouldn't colour the sound anyway, surely? If one did, wouldn't that be a bad sign? Do you want headphones with a different signature? A hybrid amp? Some EQ?
 
A shallow part of me loves the retro-brutalist look of those Violectric amps, I'd happily swap you a Schiit solid state amp for it *duck*
 
*The spec being sufficient for your headphones, and there being no obvious howlers in the design/construction.

 
Don't get me wrong, I like the setup that I have, but hanging out in this part of the forum and continually hearing that you could probably get the same sound a fraction of the price, I feel like I should probably just get something for a fraction of the price and sell the expensive gear and to fund something like a pair of studio monitors or whatever.  
 
Different dac/amps do tend to have slightly different sounds which was the reason I mentioned my preferences.
 
SodaBoy, do you know if the general feeling is that the Audio GD stuff is a bit more laid back?  I forgot about those guys...

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Honestly, if I already own expensive gear I'm happy with, even I wouldn't deliberately cheap down the system. Irrespective of any possible change in the sound, you never know what your brain can do to your ears after such an operation... :rolleyes:

 

[Ancipital]

   
Don't get me wrong, I like the setup that I have, but hanging out in this part of the forum and continually hearing that you could probably get the same sound a fraction of the price, I feel like I should probably just get something for a fraction of the price and sell the expensive gear and to fund something like a pair of studio monitors or whatever.  
 
Different dac/amps do tend to have slightly different sounds which was the reason I mentioned my preferences.
 
SodaBoy, do you know if the general feeling is that the Audio GD stuff is a bit more laid back?  I forgot about those guys...

 
The differences will be much more slight with SS amps, mind. Obviously some are better than others, both on paper and in reality, but  if you're looking for different "signatures", messing about with different SS amps won't really help as much as you hope. Consider EQ, or different cans, or even crazy hybrid amps where you can swap tubes around to colour the sound noticeably. Other amps with the specs you want won't give you much of a change, unless they're deficient in some way (except perhaps in your head, which we all suffer from).
 
That said, if you're are genuinely happy with the sound of what you have, why not keep listening to it? You've spent the money now. I won't lie, it looks cool, I love the design, and I'd swap it for my affordable amp just as a "lookgrade" cheerfully.
 
Edit: Grr, joe beat me to it, seems I have to read the later posts before replying 

 

[mulder01]

Yeah I realise the differences between SS amps will be small, so I just wondered if I had $4k rrp worth of stuff and could replace it with $500 rrp worth of stuff and not notice any difference, why not sell it and pocket the $2-odd k difference and spend it on something else (not headphone related).  My rig is into the 5 figure mark and averages probably about an hour's use a week so sometimes I feel a bit guilty on having probably overspent a bit considering how much use it gets.  I have tried to downsize my whole system in the past and went to listen to a bunch of more reasonably priced gear but I absolutely can't bring myself give up the Abyss no matter what so I wondered if downsizing something else would be worthwhile.  Possibly not though by the sounds of it.  I mean, don't get me wrong, I bought the matching Violectric phono amp for more than I probably needed to spend on a phono amp for the sole reason that it looks cool stacked with their other gear.  So I get the whole pride of ownership thing but just feel a bit guilty about being a bit wasteful and indulgent...  I guess it's not costing me anything to have it sit there though.

 

[Ancipital]

I admire your honesty, I have to say.
 
One thing I would worry about though, is the purely psychological, subjective aspect. Even if you picked up a $500 amp that people would favour ~50% of the time in a blind test with your current amp*, that may not be enough. You will know that you have changed it, and have sown the seeds of doubt in your own mind- you'll start hearing problems/shortcomings that perhaps aren't there, and start suffering "upgradeitis" again- possibly not saving yourself any money in the longer term.
 
This might be too cynical a view, and it's not meant to be in any way insulting- I suspect I'd do the same, too. You probably could get a $500 amp that sounds about as good, but you may never like it quite as much, just because you know it's a cheaper unit.
 
The brain is annoying, and doesn't come with an instruction manual.
 
 
 
*Assuming that such a beast exists.