[Ginryuu]

Hello guys.

I could really need some help in deciding which headphone I'm going for because I tested a few ones and still wasn't able to came to a conclusion yet.
Also talked to some people and asked for their opinion and had contact to a few people on reddit who also made some suggestions but all came to the result that it's hard finding the right headphone for me.

I know that this is the most important part so the main genres I am listening to are Metalcore, Deathcore, Japanese rock and normal rock. Stuff like Currents, Shadow of Intent, Within Destruction, ERRA, Resolve, Crystal Lake and also stuff from Sleep Token, Dayseeker, Bilmuri or Valiant Hearts.

My budget is at 300€ (I'm from Germany). I know that this is not much for this hobby but if there is something good and affordable at this price range I would also take it from a b-stock/ open box.

So here is my story: Initially when audiophile headphones were not part of my life I was able to listen to a Fostex Purpleheart from a friend. If I remember correctly he was using a Schiit Magni/Modi stack and I absolutely loved that sound. Although I can remember that the bass was a bit too present and was bleeding through the mids the rest of the sound really was great to my ears. But they are discontinued for about 3 years now and I have never managed to get a pair of them for a good price. Also I read quite a few times about the hinge issues because only a single screw holds the cups and the headband together and I wouldn't be able to repair it. The only shop that has spare parts is Fullcompass and they don't ship outside of the US.

Now at the beginning of this year my old audio-technica ATH-M30 headphones began to slowly fall apart after 12 years of usage.
Because of that I started investing more time into researches for a new headphone and started to find some audiophile places.

The first headphones I read quite often were the HD 600/650 and 660S and also the HD 560S.
So what I did was to visit a music center in my region to search and listen to them.
In my experience they do lack in sub-bass and especially the 560S was too analytical to my ears.
I can understand that this could be important if it's your job and you need to record stuff but for casual listening it's nothing I personally would like to use. The 650 was a bit better in the bass area but sounded veiled and a bit dark to me. I already heard that majority of people would say that they are a bit warm and almost neutral but that's not what my ears told me. I didn't liked them either.

After that some people suggested the Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro to me.
So I went to a music store again and were testing them out.
They were pretty comfortable but the harsh treble was painful to my ears (sibilance).
I already heard that this beyer peak is pretty much typical for beyerdynamic models except for a few models like the 700/900 Pro X or the 177x GO. Speaking of them: I asked a YouTuber if he would suggest the 700 or 900 Pro X to me and he told me that beyerdynamics in general are not suited for casual listening and more for studio work. He couldn't tell me the reason for that but I guess it has something to do with the tuning of them? Because of that he suggested the Audeze Maxwell to me and said to me that I shouldn't be shocked about them being called a gaming headphone because they sound very good in his opinion. The 177x are from Drop and we don't have those here in Europe so I don't know how these sound but I heard from others that they are lacking in sub-bass.

I was also able to test some Meze 99 Noir and Classics but they also were very sibilant to my ears. The bass was maybe even a bit too much.

Then I got recommended the Denon AH-D5200 from some people. The problem with those is that there must have been some kind of revision for these models. Some people who owned these over a different time span told me that the actual ones have a way thinner bass now compared to 2 or 3 years ago and that the bass is now more delayed to the high frequencies. Also female vocals don't sound that well.

Then I heard about the Fiio FT 3. They came out this year (I believe in April) and at the moment they are not available but they should be coming back soon with a 32 Ohm version (at least I heard of it). They sounded really interesting. Maybe a little bit harsh sometimes but this could be fixed with EQ. Only problem with these is that they are open backs and I prefer closed backs because in my environment there are a lot of surrounding sounds.

The Focal Elex sounded interesting to me. It was like a Sennheiser HD 600 with better punch and fun but I heard they have some driver failures with this model which is a shame.

Hifiman is something I want to strictly avoid. Maybe you will now roll with your eyes because you've heard and read it quite often but the quality control issues (especially the dying drivers) are really concerning me. And 300€ is a lot of money for me. I want my next headphones without any issues for the next 12 years just like my old audio-technicas.

IEM's are also a no-go. I already tried some a while back and they hurt my ears. Different types of tips haven't changed that either.

So I'm at this point now where I really don't know which headphones could be suitable for me.
If you have any idea or useful informations I would really appreciate that.

Thanks in advance.

 

[msing539]

Lot here. The Focal might suit your tastes really well, but I don't disagree about driver issues from what I've come across.

I think Hifiman actually has fewer failures than it would seem. They sell a ton of headphones and there are bound to be some issues. And users with a broken headphone are much more vocal than those who've been using them for years without issue.

Speaking of which, I have an HE-5, which is over 10 years old and it's still going strong.

 

[Ginryuu]

Lot here. The Focal might suit your tastes really well, but I don't disagree about driver issues from what I've come across.

I think Hifiman actually has fewer failures than it would seem. They sell a ton of headphones and there are bound to be some issues. And users with a broken headphone are much more vocal than those who've been using them for years without issue.

Speaking of which, I have an HE-5, which is over 10 years old and it's still going strong.

Yes when I was able to test the Elex I really had fun listening to them.
But for this money I would expect a better quality for their drivers.
And I wouldn't be able to buy them new. So warranty would also be gone.
My guts are telling me to stay away from this risk.

You might be right about Hifiman. They sell way more headphones compared to other brands so it's natural that more people are having faulty units. But when I see people stating they had dying drivers out of the box and then the next pair they got had the same issues then I really wouldn't wanna play lottery either. This shouldn't really happen in my opinion.

But in the end it doesn't really matter because as far as I know HifiMan doesn't really have good closed back headphones which I would prefer.
If there is something close to the Elex in my price range which is an open back I would have to take my time to decide. But I doubt there is such an option.

 

[PBSequence]

Honestly, if longevity/durability is a bigger concern for you, choosing one of the new Beyerdynamics wouldn't be a bad choice in my opinion.
I think the distinction between "professional" and "enthusiast" headphones is most of the time artificial and relatively meaningless. They are definitely well-suited for music listening. You disliked both the lacking bass of the Sennheisers you tried as well as the piercing treble of the other Beyerdynamic models, and in my opinion, the 900 Pro X is better in both aspects. It has reasonable amounts of bass and not too much treble.
That said, don't expect extreme subbass extension from them, they cannot compare to most planar headphones in that manner.
700 is an ok choice as well if you really need a closed-back, but it is slightly lacking in the lower mids which I find very annoying, especially for metal and rock music.

 

[Ginryuu]

Honestly, if longevity/durability is a bigger concern for you, choosing one of the new Beyerdynamics wouldn't be a bad choice in my opinion.
I think the distinction between "professional" and "enthusiast" headphones is most of the time artificial and relatively meaningless. They are definitely well-suited for music listening. You disliked both the lacking bass of the Sennheisers you tried as well as the piercing treble of the other Beyerdynamic models, and in my opinion, the 900 Pro X is better in both aspects. It has reasonable amounts of bass and not too much treble.
That said, don't expect extreme subbass extension from them, they cannot compare to most planar headphones in that manner.
700 is an ok choice as well if you really need a closed-back, but it is slightly lacking in the lower mids which I find very annoying, especially for metal and rock music.

You are from Germany so you might have heard about the YouTuber I mentioned: His name is Damir Franc.
Before I asked him the beyerdynamics were in my shortlist as well because quite a lot of people suggested them to me so I thought they must be good if some people are suggesting them. But after Damir mentioned that they wouldn't be suitable for casual listening I was a bit confused and wanted to research a bit more if that's really the case. But yes, durability and longevity is a big factor to me and I'm well aware that Beyerdynamics are build like a tank.

About the sub-bass you are probably right. I heard that quite often now that it's almost impossible to get something with a good punch within the 300€ price range even with planar headphones. The Sundara for example sounds thin to my ears. I cannot understand why they are so hyped to be honest. Maybe it depends on the music genres you are listening to.

 

[PBSequence]

You are from Germany so you might have heard about the YouTuber I mentioned: His name is Damir Franc.

I admit that I don't really keep up with the German youtube space much, but he seems quite experienced with headphones. He's not wrong that the Beyerdynamic are designed with studio use in mind, but in the end, what they are suitable for depends on your subjective taste: in my opinion, their tuning works well for music listening.

About the sub-bass you are probably right. I heard that quite often now that it's almost impossible to get somethin with a good punch within the 300€ price range even with planar headphones. The Sundara for example sounds thin to my ears. I cannot understand why they are so hyped to be honest. Maybe it depends on the music genres you are listening to.

Yeah, in the 300€ range, headphones with punchy bass usually suffer from serious issues in other areas. I'm not the biggest Sundara fan either, even for music genres that do not need much bass, I'd rather use a Sennheiser 600 series model, I find the 650 far more pleasant.

For me, a good option for punchy bass was actually the Beyerdynamic DT 1990 Pro with Balanced pads. With some luck you can find used pairs within that price range. Its big issue is of course the piercing treble, though that can be mitigated with EQ or adding dampening foam, but the bass sounds slightly better than on the 900 Pro. I would still go for the 900 Pro X if I were you though, and if you order from thomann, they are generally painless to return if you really don't like them.

 

[Ginryuu]

I admit that I don't really keep up with the German youtube space much, but he seems quite experienced with headphones. He's not wrong that the Beyerdynamic are designed with studio use in mind, but in the end, what they are suitable for depends on your subjective taste: in my opinion, their tuning works well for music listening.

Yeah, in the 300€ range, headphones with punchy bass usually suffer from serious issues in other areas. I'm not the biggest Sundara fan either, even for music genres that do not need much bass, I'd rather use a Sennheiser 600 series model, I find the 650 far more pleasant.

For me, a good option for punchy bass was actually the Beyerdynamic DT 1990 Pro with Balanced pads. With some luck you can find used pairs within that price range. Its big issue is of course the piercing treble, though that can be mitigated with EQ or adding dampening foam, but the bass sounds slightly better than on the 900 Pro. I would still go for the 900 Pro X if I were you though, and if you order from thomann, they are generally painless to return if you really don't like them.

I heard that the 900 Pro X is more like semi-open although I cannot really understand these terms. If you're opening a door halfway then there is as much air coming from it compared to when you are fully opening it so to me these terms make no sense.

Can you agree on the semi-open part? Is it really isolating a bit?
And what exactly would be the differences between the 700 and 900 Pro X?
700 Pro X would have a bit more bass but less soundstage, right? Are there any other differences?

Edit: About the 1990 Pro: Yes sometimes there are some offers for them at around 300$. I just saw one offer today on another platform.
But the opinions on this headphone are either good or bad because of the harsh treble you have mentioned.
I guess it's the same as for the DT 770 Pro? Couldn't stand this pain. People really must be either sadistic or deaf if they are enjoying this without EQ lol. But maybe it's also the source you are using that is responsible for this. I'm not quite sure.

 

[PBSequence]

heard that the 900 Pro X is more like semi-open although I cannot really understand these terms. If you're opening a door halfway then there is as much air coming from it compared to when you are fully opening it so to me these terms make no sense.

Can you agree on the semi-open part? Is it really isolating a bit?

Usually semi-open is referring to a closed front volume (between driver and ear) and a open back volume (behind the driver), though it can theoretically also be the other way around. Sometimes people also use the term to mean headphones where the back volume is just "slightly" open, and I think that’s what they’re talking about here. By design, the 900 Pro X may be described as semi-open, but they do not offer much isolation, though they are better than, for example, the Sennheiser 600 series. You can expect to hear everything around you though if it is not drowned out by the music.

700 Pro X would have a bit more bass but less soundstage, right? Are there any other differences?

They have a different bass: the 900 Pro has a warm tuning with midbass, some lower mids presence and the subbass is slightly rolled off. In contrast, the 700 Pro X has more subbass, but noticeably less midbass and lower mids and sounds slightly hollow to me (some instruments and vocals can lack body a bit). There are also minor differences in the treble if I remember correctly, but I can’t point them out since I don’t own both of them.

Edit: About the 1990 Pro: Yes sometimes there are some offers for them at around 300$. I just saw one offer today on another platform.
But the opinions on this headphone are either good or bad because of the harsh treble you have mentioned.
I guess it's the same as for the DT 770 Pro? Couldn't stand this pain. People really must be either sadistic or deaf if they are enjoying this without EQ lol.

Yeah, that’s absolutely true, they are similarly piercing as the 770, and it’s the reason why I sold my 1990. They can be fixed of course (with EQ or extra foam), but in the end, I just didn’t enjoy them as much. Some people like the treble though, and the 1990 is a pretty nice headphone otherwise, with good soundstage and instrument separation (mostly due to the accentuated treble). Doesn’t seem like they’d be for you based on your opinion on the 770.

 

[Ginryuu]

@PBSequence: Thank you for the informations, appreciate it.
Sounds like the 900 Pro X would be the better choice.
Problem is that there are really often ambient noises (cars, people with dogs, playing children) around me which would negatively influence the hearing experience. Funny thing is that my old audio technica's are closed backs and I can still hear some of the outside noises.

I agree on the 1990 Pro part. Based on my experience I'm really treble sensitive (Beyerdynamic, Meze, Sivga) so even though it can be "fixed" with EQ it's not a good feeling. I never used EQ before simply because I don't wanna change the sound image of a song but I can see that it's sometimes necessary.

The only hint I can give you is what I have already mentioned in my opening post: I really liked the sound of the Fostex Purpleheart. After that the Focal Elex would be another headphone which I had fun listening to. But there is no alternative for them. At least not in my price range.

 

[msing539]

If you like the Beyer's except for the energetic treble, look into the Ultrasone 880. It's closed back but they have a unique driver placement that can sound very wide if you get a good fit... and made in Germany!

 

[Ginryuu]

If you like the Beyer's except for the energetic treble, look into the Ultrasone 880. It's closed back but they have a unique driver placement that can sound very wide if you get a good fit... and made in Germany!

That's probably the part where it fails. I can remember people were saying that you will have problems wearing these if you have big ears. And I have big ears. The inner earpad size must be at least 55mm in the height. This is the size of my old headphones and they are beginning to squeeze after around one hour of usage.

 

[msing539]

That's probably the part where it fails. I can remember people were saying that you will have problems wearing these if you have big ears. And I have big ears. The inner earpad size must be at least 55mm in the height. This is the size of my old headphones and they are beginning to squeeze after around one hour of usage.

Just something to try if you can. I have large ears and the 880 fit me fine and the imaging worked. Build quality though, no doubt a Beyer is better.

Beyers. Beats. Battlestar Galactica.

 

[msing539]

And yes, I'm aware some say "buyer" dynamics...