[Baenwort]

So my third set of ER4S has died after 9 years of good service due to plastic fatigue breaking the canal off, again.

I'm really happy with the Ety sound from the ER-4S (the P model was good but I liked the S better), enough that I've been using them for over 20 years. But I'm not wedded to them and as my second set of cans are Beyerdynamic DT-770Pros (third set of these, favorite was middle 600 ohm pair, currently using 250 ohm again).

However, I tend to stick with a sound I like so I haven't tried any headphones from the last decade. I've got enough budget to try the new or get another pair of Etys. But the ER4S are so far out of style that no one compares to them any longer. Hence reaching out to you.

What is the short list of IEMs to try that are similar to the ER-4S? I don't want to waste trying out a bunch but this chance only comes once a decade.

 

[earmonger]

On Crinacle's ranking chart, he uses Etymotic as a benchmark to describe the style of a few assorted other IEMs. There still aren't a lot of IEMs tuning themselves like Etymotic or going for that deep insertion. Crinacle still likes the slightly bass-boosted ER4XR a lot. He's obviously not the last word on anything, but his chart is a good resource to find Ety-style tunings.

https://crinacle.com/rankings/iems/

If you want to get a similarly tuned Etymotic as a placeholder while you do more research, you can get the ER3E -- just a slight downgrade from the ER4SR -- for the totally ridiculous price of $49 here:

https://www.adorama.com/etyer3se.html?emailPrice=t

I'm pretty impressed with the ER3XR. (also slightly bass-boosted), which Adorama had at $59 when I grabbed them. And at some point I'm going to try the ER2XR; it has a dynamic driver, which I generally prefer to the BA that's in the ER3 and ER4.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

So my third set of ER4S has died after 9 years of good service due to plastic fatigue breaking the canal off, again.

I'm really happy with the Ety sound from the ER-4S (the P model was good but I liked the S better), enough that I've been using them for over 20 years. But I'm not wedded to them and as my second set of cans are Beyerdynamic DT-770Pros (third set of these, favorite was middle 600 ohm pair, currently using 250 ohm again).

However, I tend to stick with a sound I like so I haven't tried any headphones from the last decade. I've got enough budget to try the new or get another pair of Etys. But the ER4S are so far out of style that no one compares to them any longer. Hence reaching out to you.

What is the short list of IEMs to try that are similar to the ER-4S? I don't want to waste trying out a bunch but this chance only comes once a decade.

I have ER4S and played a lot with it, it’s still a good IEM ad a single BA. I think in terms of “resolving capability “ alone not other factors, ER4S is still king of a single BA.

Although Ety is basically sold to a third party now, it’s not same old Ety we know, they made 3BA IEM and if you are absolutely looking for Ety style diffusion field tuning, it may be your choice but I’m not too sure about that. It’s called Evo.

However as you mentioned ER4S is an old boy now, things have changed. Once a king is a knight class now.

As an Ety owner, the way ER4S is tuned with dead flat bass, and upper mid focus, knowing that dead flat bass isn’t going very popular now, as drivers have evolved, the bass presence is not as disturbing as old devices before, You may find Moondrop’s Variations a very nice upgrade with $560 budget from ER4S. If you have amps to pump deadly hard to drive ER4S, any modern IEMs are good to drive.

 

[episiarch]

I'd say get ER4-SR. ER-4S was my reference sound since around 2001 – and then ER4-SR came out, and I love it more. It's very much the same style of tuning, and available new with 2-year warranty.

 

[Baenwort]

I have ER4S and played a lot with it, it’s still a good IEM ad a single BA. I think in terms of “resolving capability “ alone not other factors, ER4S is still king of a single BA.

Although Ety is basically sold to a third party now, it’s not same old Ety we know, they made 3BA IEM and if you are absolutely looking for Ety style diffusion field tuning, it may be your choice but I’m not too sure about that. It’s called Evo.

However as you mentioned ER4S is an old boy now, things have changed. Once a king is a knight class now.

As an Ety owner, the way ER4S is tuned with dead flat bass, and upper mid focus, knowing that dead flat bass isn’t going very popular now, as drivers have evolved, the bass presence is not as disturbing as old devices before, You may find Moondrop’s Variations a very nice upgrade with $560 budget from ER4S. If you have amps to pump deadly hard to drive ER4S, any modern IEMs are good to drive.

Thanks, I came back to ask as I figured things had changed and with the sale of Etymotic (I used to live near them and bought my second ER-4S and first bluetooth headset from them when back on leave from my first deployment) I wanted to see what I may be missing. I've haven't used any IEMs besides the ER-4S as once I found a sound I liked I stuck with it and stopped and I'm sure any set I reviewed 20 years ago isn't relevent any longer.

I do like the flat bass sound (but am not opposed to boosted as shown by my Beyer 770 pros).

When I'm walking I just have a LG V60 to drive what ever IEM I'm using. I still have a 9V Altoids amp I made long ago and a TotalBit head (most of my headphone stuff comes from the early/mid 2000s). At home and on trips I have a D cell powered Headroom Cosmic. All of them have handled the ER-4S well enough. I'm sure when my LG dies I'll need to re-evaluate my walking solution but I hope to baby another few years out of a custom GSI roms.

I'm going to get the ER3E recommended above to tied me over while I make a final call.

It seems my current list are:

ER4SR (if I can find a used pair that was USA made)
Moondrop’s Variations
Westone W80 (this was PMed to me)

 

[AmericanSpirit]

Thanks, I came back to ask as I figured things had changed and with the sale of Etymotic (I used to live near them and bought my second ER-4S and first bluetooth headset from them when back on leave from my first deployment) I wanted to see what I may be missing. I've haven't used any IEMs besides the ER-4S as once I found a sound I liked I stuck with it and stopped and I'm sure any set I reviewed 20 years ago isn't relevent any longer.

I do like the flat bass sound (but am not opposed to boosted as shown by my Beyer 770 pros).

When I'm walking I just have a LG V60 to drive what ever IEM I'm using. I still have a 9V Altoids amp I made long ago and a TotalBit head (most of my headphone stuff comes from the early/mid 2000s). At home and on trips I have a D cell powered Headroom Cosmic. All of them have handled the ER-4S well enough. I'm sure when my LG dies I'll need to re-evaluate my walking solution but I hope to baby another few years out of a custom GSI roms.

I'm going to get the ER3E recommended above to tied me over while I make a final call.

It seems my current list are:

ER4SR (if I can find a used pair that was USA made)
Moondrop’s Variations
Westone W80 (this was PMed to me)

Good luck but wow Westone W80 is far from Ety…Also Ety and Westone is sold to the same current owner. So if you feel like to support for Ety/Westone going, maybe that’s an option too. I like Westone’s laid back and warm tuning as well.

 

[Baenwort]

What direction would you say the W80 is from the ER4S?

As I mentioned I'm not opposed to re-evaluating what I listen with as 20 years ago the field for IEMs was clearly in balanced armature's favor.

I do like deep insertion and a nice seal from the environment as sometimes the ER4S doubled as hearing protection while doing yard work or at street corner performances I would stumble across.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

What direction would you say the W80 is from the ER4S?

As I mentioned I'm not opposed to re-evaluating what I listen with as 20 years ago the field for IEMs was clearly in balanced armature's favor.

I do like deep insertion and a nice seal from the environment as sometimes the ER4S doubled as hearing protection while doing yard work or at street corner performances I would stumble across.

W80 ($1400) is a lot warmer than that ER4 has to offer, it’s good warmth and I do appreciate long term listening sessions with Westone tuning. Thr ER4 with triple flanges do have hearing protection, but latest IEM are not like old ones, it’s 3D printed and very ergonomic, so the housing shell will work as a part of noise isolating wall, Moondrop’s Variations/Blessing 2 offers a pseudo-custom IEM like fit for many, unless if you have an extra small ear canal.

From left to right, here my shot of Blessing 2 $(270 with Black Friday), Truthear HEXA($79) with 90% performance of Variations, and Moondrop Variations $460 with black Friday sale.

Blessing 2, HEXA, Variations all have better imaging than ER4.

Blessing2, it has 2Knowles TWFK as tweeter + 2 Softears MID-A proprietary high-end Balanced Armature + 1 traditional dynamic driver as a subwoofer.

HEXA has 1 high-end Balanced Armature as super tweeter + 2 high-end MID BA + 1 x latest high-tech LCP dynamic driver of which you could only find in SONY’s high-end models before.

Variations has 2x Sonion Electret as supertweeter + 2 Softears MID-A proprietary high-end Balanced Armature + the LCP dynamic driver.

ER4 uses 1x Knowles ED29689 with high impedance adapter embedded with its cable.

If you remember STAX SR007 and back in old days ER4 was referred as STAX in an IEM form, now The actual electrostatic drivers are small enough to equipped into the IEM, of which I recommend Variations as one of fine-tuned (like ER4’s treble slope) electrostatic + 2 balanced armatures + realistic bass transient response LCP dynamic bass tribrids IEM that could surprise you how things have changed over last decade.

Myself was shocked by Moondrop’s Blessing 2, I couldn’t believe Ety / Shure / Westone / Sennheiser / AKG / Ultimate Ears are no longer market leading forces anymore. But it happened, and I’m enjoying the new technologies.

Hope this helps for some old buddies of head-fi.

I’ve also left my narratives of what happened for the last decade, in my posts below:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...dac-amp-dongles-list-etc.805930/post-17249277


Some farewell, some new-born. We see that in real life as well.

I must say, as someone who see come and go of this IEM market over last decade, W80 is overpriced. You will not get what you have paid. I’m open for any criticism, but that’s my honest and humble opinion.

A good example is AKG’s flagship IEM N5005. They released with $1,000 price tag a few years ago, now AKG is sold to Harman International, then Harman is acquired by Samsung, AKG’s Hungarian HQ is closed. Now that N5005 is sold at competitive $199, even with a bluetooth module as a free gift.

 

[Baenwort]

W80 ($1400) is a lot warmer than that ER4 has to offer, it’s good warmth and I do appreciate long term listening sessions with Westone tuning. Thr ER4 with triple flanges do have hearing protection, but latest IEM are not like old ones, it’s 3D printed and very ergonomic, so the housing shell will work as a part of noise isolating wall, Moondrop’s Variations/Blessing 2 offers a pseudo-custom IEM like fit for many, unless if you have an extra small ear canal.

From left to right, here my shot of Blessing 2 $(270 with Black Friday), Truthear HEXA($79) with 90% performance of Variations, and Moondrop Variations $460 with black Friday sale.



Blessing 2, HEXA, Variations all have better imaging than ER4.

Blessing2, it has 2Knowles TWFK as tweeter + 2 Softears MID-A proprietary high-end Balanced Armature + 1 traditional dynamic driver as a subwoofer.

HEXA has 1 high-end Balanced Armature as super tweeter + 2 high-end MID BA + 1 x latest high-tech LCP dynamic driver of which you could only find in SONY’s high-end models before.

Variations has 2x Sonion Electret as supertweeter + 2 Softears MID-A proprietary high-end Balanced Armature + the LCP dynamic driver.

ER4 uses 1x Knowles ED29689 with high impedance adapter embedded with its cable.

If you remember STAX SR007 and back in old days ER4 was referred as STAX in an IEM form, now The actual electrostatic drivers are small enough to equipped into the IEM, of which I recommend Variations as one of fine-tuned (like ER4’s treble slope) electrostatic + 2 balanced armatures + realistic bass transient response LCP dynamic bass tribrids IEM that could surprise you how things have changed over last decade.

Myself was shocked by Moondrop’s Blessing 2, I couldn’t believe Ety / Shure / Westone / Sennheiser / AKG / Ultimate Ears are no longer market leading forces anymore. But it happened, and I’m enjoying the new technologies.

Hope this helps for some old buddies of head-fi.

I’ve also left my narratives of what happened for the last decade, in my posts below:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...dac-amp-dongles-list-etc.805930/post-17249277


Some farewell, some new-born. We see that in real life as well.

I must say, as someone who see come and go of this IEM market over last decade, W80 is overpriced. You will not get what you have paid. I’m open for any criticism, but that’s my honest and humble opinion.

A good example is AKG’s flagship IEM N5005. They released with $1,000 price tag a few years ago, now AKG is sold to Harman International, then Harman is acquired by Samsung, AKG’s Hungarian HQ is closed. Now that N5005 is sold at competitive $199, even with a bluetooth module as a free gift.

I was offered the Westone W80's for $400 but your description of the Moondrop Variations is making me reconsider. I'd really like to get a homerun again and find a pair of IEMs that are just good for me and given how well I've lived with the ER4S it seems I should chart my course towards the Moondrops.

Having used both the Etymotics with triple flange or the foamies, and the Moondrop Variations, how would you compare their isolation?

I haven't found any db specs for anyone but Etymotics. I like data but it looks like impressions is the best I'm going to find.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

I was offered the Westone W80's for $400 but your description of the Moondrop Variations is making me reconsider. I'd really like to get a homerun again and find a pair of IEMs that are just good for me and given how well I've lived with the ER4S it seems I should chart my course towards the Moondrops.

Having used both the Etymotics with triple flange or the foamies, and the Moondrop Variations, how would you compare their isolation?

I haven't found any db specs for anyone but Etymotics. I like data but it looks like impressions is the best I'm going to find.

Real homerun is Unique Melody’s MEST MKII which is now a quadbrid, using Bone-Conducting driver as the forth-dimension. But that cost $1500-ish….

Well, decisions is on your hand, mate! Best wishes!

The triple flange vs moondrop IEM, if you insert those nozzle into your ear canal, the solid resin will have high isolation db than triple flanges.

Simply because ER4 is isolating sound by 3 layers of soft silicon, and quasi-custom Resin IEMs are using 1 layer of ear tip silicon + vast resins that isolates the sound flowing into your ear canal. It only works for full-resin filled IEMs, as many other IEMs only has partially resin filled and remained hollow space within the housing shell.

This type of semi-custom IEM did not existed before, so you may find some new era of IEM from this technology alone.

If you need further deep reaching ear tips, SpinFit W1 will work for your need.

Variations is sold at black friday sale of $440 at amazon, you can try, and if not liked, simply return it, Amazon made return easy by a single “no longer needed” click. So there is no risk of it.

Moondrop Variations Earphone 1DD+2BA+2EST Tribrid Technology in-Ear Monitor with Interchangeable Cable https://a.co/d/5OCfXhR

For people with solid budget upper limit I could offer Variations at 90% performance, Truthear HEXA (it’s like Costco’s Kirkland Private brand), but you seemed not that case, so straight going up to Variations would leave no regrets. Variations is McLaren P1 (hybrid sportscar) in IEM world.

 

[Baenwort]

Real homerun is Unique Melody’s MEST MKII which is now a quadbrid, using Bone-Conducting driver as the forth-dimension. But that cost $1500-ish….

Well, decisions is on your hand, mate! Best wishes!

The triple flange vs moondrop IEM, if you insert those nozzle into your ear canal, the solid resin will have high isolation db than triple flanges.

Simply because ER4 is isolating sound by 3 layers of soft silicon, and quasi-custom Resin IEMs are using 1 layer of ear tip silicon + vast resins that isolates the sound flowing into your ear canal. It only works for full-resin filled IEMs, as many other IEMs only has partially resin filled and remained hollow space within the housing shell.

This type of semi-custom IEM did not existed before, so you may find some new era of IEM from this technology alone.

If you need further deep reaching ear tips, SpinFit W1 will work for your need.

Variations is sold at black friday sale of $440 at amazon, you can try, and if not liked, simply return it, Amazon made return easy by a single “no longer needed” click. So there is no risk of it.

Moondrop Variations Earphone 1DD+2BA+2EST Tribrid Technology in-Ear Monitor with Interchangeable Cable https://a.co/d/5OCfXhR

For people with solid budget upper limit I could offer Variations at 90% performance, Truthear HEXA (it’s like Costco’s Kirkland Private brand), but you seemed not that case, so straight going up to Variations would leave no regrets. Variations is McLaren P1 (hybrid sportscar) in IEM world.

Thank you for your advice. I think I'll give the Variations a spot on my trial list near the top of the audition list.

Would you be willing to rank the sound isolation (no music playing) of the following IEMs?

1. Etymotic ER4SR - Foamie
2. Etymotic ER4SR - Triples
3. Moondrop Variations - Defaults
4. Moondrop Variations - SpinFit W1s
5. Westone W80 - Stock
6. Westone W80 - SpinFit W1s

Just a relative ranking as best as you can recollect please. I know there will always be variation between people due to physical fit but this is the best I can come up with since no one seems to test to ANSI/ASA S12.6 or any other standard with their IEMs.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

Thank you for your advice. I think I'll give the Variations a spot on my trial list near the top of the audition list.

Would you be willing to rank the sound isolation (no music playing) of the following IEMs?

1. Etymotic ER4SR - Foamie
2. Etymotic ER4SR - Triples
3. Moondrop Variations - Defaults
4. Moondrop Variations - SpinFit W1s
5. Westone W80 - Stock
6. Westone W80 - SpinFit W1s

Just a relative ranking as best as you can recollect please. I know there will always be variation between people due to physical fit but this is the best I can come up with since no one seems to test to ANSI/ASA S12.6 or any other standard with their IEMs.

I tried Moondrop’s and ER4S; I have same shelled Westone 4, it’s least noise isolating one.

Teated with Saw sound played by my iphone on max volume: here is the result

Most isolating
ER4SR - Triples
Etymotic ER4SR - Foamie
Moondrip Variations - Formie
Moondrop Variations - Defaults
Moondrop Variations - SpinFit W1s

If you are looking noise isolation for the yard work, ER of Ety seemed is the best option, I didn’t consider insertion depth that also matters the noise attenuation which ER4 did the best.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

I’ve put Ety’s 3BA new boy EVO’s impression note
https://crinacle.com/2021/08/11/crinnotes-etymotic-evo-canned-bread/

 

[Baenwort]

I tried Moondrop’s and ER4S; I have same shelled Westone 4, it’s least noise isolating one.

Teated with Saw sound played by my iphone on max volume: here is the result

Most isolating
ER4SR - Triples
Etymotic ER4SR - Foamie
Moondrip Variations - Formie
Moondrop Variations - Defaults
Moondrop Variations - SpinFit W1s

If you are looking noise isolation for the yard work, ER of Ety seemed is the best option, I didn’t consider insertion depth that also matters the noise attenuation which ER4 did the best.

Well as good as the deal on the W80s are your rankings are leading me to drop trying them as noise isolation is important to me. Would you say the Variations with foam tips came close to the ER4SR with foam tips or was it a wide seperation?

It looks like I'm going to keep the ER3SR's to fill the gap and give a pair of the Moondrop Variations a try. (unless you have any others to recommend?) If I'm happy with them I'll stop there but otherwise I'll hunt down some ER4SRs.

Thank you for sharing your experience and spending the time to test your collection!

 

[earmonger]

I don't know if it's a Cyber Monday deal or one of Adorama's longer-running discounts, but the Westone W80 are $399 at this link, at least for now.
I've never heard 'em, just passing it along.

https://www.adorama.com/we80v3bt.html?sdtid=16228426&emailprice=t