[Fírnen]

Weeks of reading around here and I am nowhere near a decision on what to buy. Prices vary wildly, spec sections are nonsensical to my inexperienced mind. Talk of DACs that add "color" with tubes and aftermarket parts. I do not really care about any of that yet; I just want "good" sound. I daily drive a set of Empyreans, and I have a FiiO M17 I run in DC mode as my DAC/AMP. Really like that sound but it would be great to have a better dedicated device at my computer.

The requirements: It needs to connect to my PC. Needs a 3.5mm jack at least, 2.5mm and 4.4mm appreciated. Needs to have a fast enough response time for games. No idle function, I should not hear sounds cut in late if there is a period of silence (Think typical computer usage). This should go without saying, but it should sound at least as good as the M17 with my Empyreans; expecting better though, since it should be a dedicated DAC/AMP for desktop use. A lower noise floor suitable for IEMs would also be greatly appreciated. Price not to exceed $2,000. Below is the list of what I may use besides the Empyreans.

What I currently own: Of my growing collection of audio gear, the Empyreans win with plenty of room to spare in terms of my perceived sound quality. Other HPs I have includes the Meze 99 Neos, the Kbear KS2 (IEM), Sennheiser HD660S, and in early october I should also have a pair of Unique 7Hz Timeless IEMs. Also plan on owning the Meze Lirics at some point. The only (reasonable sounding) sources I currently have are the aforementioned FiiO M17 and FiiO BTR5.

I would like to emphasize the desire for reasonable response times for the device. My M17 works well enough, but in day-to-day computer usage I despise the way audio cuts in after a second (it seems to have an idle function if there is no sound playing). For a device claiming to be able to function as a desktop DAC, that is unacceptable to me (I have not been able to find any setting to fix that, nor any mention of the issue online). I am OK searching for used deals if need be to stay under my price target, and I may do that regardless anyway. Also, while I expect to use line-in from my PC, USB DAC functionality would be nice to have. I have seen mixed opinions on whether DACs should add any color of their own at all; if clean, accurate sound reproduction can be had at a much cheaper price point, those suggestions are welcome. Also, if anybody knows a good brick-and-mortar hi-fi store I can visit in San Diego, that might be the best route to take if I can't decide based on suggestions here.

There is no need to throw technical terms around, as I will not fully grasp how they may or may not affect sound. Driving the Sennheiser HD660S to it's full potential is not really a concern either. I suspect I have not given it a fair shake with a powerful enough setup. This does not matter though, as I plan on getting rid of them at some point; as it stands I don't believe they can give me a sound I would like as compared to my Empyreans, 99 neos, or even the Kbear KS2's.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

RME ADI-2 DAC FS and done.

 

[Fírnen]

Did not expect a good recommendation so quick!

Question though (and I am assuming you own one of these); The official page for this is a little unclear on what exactly the outputs are. It mentions that the "high power" output is 6.3mm, but does not mention what the IEM output actually is. Is that a 3.5mm or 4.4mm output? Guessing 3.5mm.

Thanks

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Did not expect a good recommendation so quick!

Question though (and I am assuming you own one of these); The official page for this is a little unclear on what exactly the outputs are. It mentions that the "high power" output is 6.3mm, but does not mention what the IEM output actually is. Is that a 3.5mm or 4.4mm output? Guessing 3.5mm.

Thanks

It is a 3.5mm But there is a new model coming that will have the 4,4mm.

Should not be a big deal, the new one will cost more and you can get adapters or replacement cables probably for less than the price difference in DACs.

If you click on my spoiler below, you can see some of the gear I own.

 

[Fírnen]

Ordered! Agreed on the cables. Meze replacement cables are pricey, but I suppose I can look for 3rd party replacements at need. Should be ok though, I have a 3.5mm cable for most everything. Think I should get a 6.3mm for the Empyrean though? It's not a difficult to drive HP; the 3.5mm is probably fine with plenty of volume, just don't want to leave sound quality on the table.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Ordered! Agreed on the cables. Meze replacement cables are pricey, but I suppose I can look for 3rd party replacements at need. Should be ok though, I have a 3.5mm cable for most everything. Think I should get a 6.3mm for the Empyrean though? It's not a difficult to drive HP; the 3.5mm is probably fine with plenty of volume, just don't want to leave sound quality on the table.

Congrats!

Actually, I should know this but I'm not sure if the smaller jack is just a convenience or if the signal path is optimized for IEMs. I have read many reports that the RME is dead silent with IEMs so I think it may be optimized.

I recommended this DAC based on the headphones you listed and also because you mentioned IEMs. For what you have I think it's a great combo. It is a little fiddly to set up, so ask questions in the RME DAC threads and don't get discouraged. It's the best thousand bucks/euros/pounds anybody will ever spend on audio.

Personally I detest fullsize headphone cables with the 1/8 inch plugs so I reterminate the few I buy or buy aftermarket cables in the 1/4 inch plug.

 

[cantcacheme]

Ordered!

Hm looks like I was too late. But for anyone else who need help looking for a nice DAC/Amp combo, Fiio K9 pro is very good, I got the AKM version which has since been discontinued but I heard ESS (current version) is even better, albeit a little more expensive.

2w power for single ended and 4.4 m balanced is only slightly more (I believe 2.1w), also xlr as well, so no need at all to purchase adapters. I think OP would dig the sound here, very smooth yet detailed, but still little coloration to sound, perhaps soundstage is not top tier but at this price point it is superb. I had excellent mileage with headphones up to Utopia, depth was especially noticeable here and this pairing was very nice, upper midrange was not fatiguing at all with this setup yet all details were present, it sounded like a super HD600 to my ears. Didn't really do much to help Utopia's lack of low-end, but at this price one could not ask for much more.

 

[Fírnen]

Yeah, I had skimmed their line-up just because I am familiar with them already. Looks quite capable; figure it is good to branch out though, the only hardware I have for driving HPs is from FiiO already.

 

[cantcacheme]

Yeah, I had skimmed their line-up just because I am familiar with them already. Looks quite capable; figure it is good to branch out though, the only hardware I have for driving HPs is from FiiO already.

I heard good things about RME ADI-2, so chances are you won't be missing out on much in terms of sound.

 

[Raketen]

I would like to emphasize the desire for reasonable response times for the device. My M17 works well enough, but in day-to-day computer usage I despise the way audio cuts in after a second (it seems to have an idle function if there is no sound playing). For a device claiming to be able to function as a desktop DAC, that is unacceptable to me (I have not been able to find any setting to fix that, nor any mention of the issue online)....

Do you get the same delay on your BTR5 in usb mode?

If you're on windows ( other OS might have similar settings): Sometimes this is due to Windows suspending usb devices after they are idle for a certain amount of time. Have you tried disabling these settings? (may be possible in per-device or per-usb hub properties in device manager, and/or disabling selective usb suspension in power management plan settings).

Though some devices are stuck with it- for instance my powered speakers will always take a second or two once playback starts after a few minutes of no sound.

 

[Fírnen]

Do you get the same delay on your BTR5 in usb mode?

If you're on windows ( other OS might have similar settings): Sometimes this is due to Windows suspending usb devices after they are idle for a certain amount of time. Have you tried disabling these settings? (may be possible in per-device or per-usb hub properties in device manager, and/or disabling selective usb suspension in power management plan settings).

Though some devices are stuck with it- for instance my powered speakers will always take a second or two once playback starts after a few minutes of no sound.

Yeah I changed that setting already, one of the first steps I took when troubleshooting. Never did find a fix, only work-around was to just never have silence lol. I believe the BTR5 did indeed have the same issue, but it's been a couple months since I used it that way so don't quote me on that. I'd check right now if I had it on me; at work atm.

I heard good things about RME ADI-2, so chances are you won't be missing out on much in terms of sound.

This is good to hear

 

[Fírnen]

Well, I have had the thing for a little over two weeks. I have tested it with every piece of gear I own. Here is a miniature review of sorts, to close out the thread:

Subjectively: This is a "transparent" device, from my listening. All of my gear sounds the same as it did, just better (by a fairly significant margin in some cases). It has managed to reverse my opinion on my Sennheiser HD660S, which previously I had come to dislike because it just did not sound good out of my (very limited at time of buying, years ago) sources. Overall, I am satisfied, now having a good DAC to round out my growing collection (my ****ing wallet, ouch). It does not seem to alter the sound signature in a way that I can notice, just amplifies what is already there.

Functionally: I don't have much to speak on for the rear I/O, seeing as I have only used it as a USB DAC and plan to continue doing so. For that function, it has been flawless. My gripes I had using the M17 in desktop mode are no more. It does not go "idle", so no more audio cutting in a second late like with the M17. It seems to have a fast response time, I use it for games as well as music and videos; for me, any sound lag is unnoticeable. As I said before, it has reversed my opinion on my Sennheiser's, confirming my suspicion that I just did not have enough power to run them properly before. I can't speak to more demanding headphones than that, but I feel like there is some headroom to play with there. I have not had a use for the included remote. In my configuration, I am always sitting right in front of it; I suppose if you were using speakers instead of headphones, it would be more relevant for controlling volume and such at a distance.

The 3.5mm IEM jack deserves special consideration, since that is part of the claimed feature-set and I have lots of IEMs. The claim is that the noise floor is extremely low, the implication being that you will hear no noise whatsoever. While the latter is not true, the former is. I quite clearly hear noise on my FiiO BTR5, depending on how the gain is set; ditto for my FiiO M17 to a lesser degree. The noise for this, the RME ADI-2, is barely audible to me. Your mileage may vary of course, but for me it is now so unnoticeable I can forget its even there.

I sort of already mentioned the 6.3mm reversing how I felt about my Sennheisers. Expanding on that, it seems this device has plenty of head room for what is my most demanding pair of cans. Pretty flawless, if I had heard the Sennheisers and the Empyreans side-by-side out of a proper source like this, I am uncertain I would have sprung for the latter pair (Empyreans being $3,000, Senny 660s being $600 when I bought them years ago). As it stands now, I am happy to keep both; just another reason to go out and listen to gear before you buy.

Other notes: I mentioned gear sounded the same, but better. This is truer of some more than others. The most dramatic change was how it benefitted the Sennheiser's, but to my surprise my Moondrop Stellaris also sounds significantly better. I guess planar magnetics really DO benefit from more power. Perhaps it was more due to burn in than anything, though. Those IEMs in particular have finally convinced me that burn-in is a real thing, at least for some gear. They sound significantly different (better) than when I got them a week ago. Jury is still out on cables, though. Nothing else in my collection had a significant change like those two, but all sounded better overall*. Looking back, I do wish I explored Schitt audio a bit more, not sure why but I sort of dismissed them simply for the name and being mentioned/recommended too much. They tick some nice boxes, being made in the USA being a pretty big one for me (sue me). Not that I mind the RME ADI-2 being made in Germany, but more so things being made in China (Like every single IEM I have). Competitive prices, made in the USA, and (reportedly) sound just as good if not better than more expensive options, with at least as much functionality. I will be looking at them for future purchases. God forbid.

Summary: Overall, the RME ADI-2 is exactly what I need it to be. Flawless plug-and-play for my PC. All of my gear sounds noticeably better compared to what I used before. At $1300, it's not a 100% brainless buy, but I am still happy with it.

*Aside: For anyone especially new (to hi-fi) out there, keep in mind that with the exception of the Sennheisers, I am talking very small changes in sound. A year ago, I would not have noticed the difference. What convinced me there was something to this whole audiophile thing was hearing the difference between plugging straight into my laptop, versus plugging into the Dell dock I use with it. That finally got me listening for details, and really hearing the difference in sources.

Thanks, all, for the recommendations