Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up
Jul 24, 2023 at 6:18 PM Post #122,236 of 154,421
Over 1,000,000 Dynaco speakers sold.
A true classic...
I use a Van Alstine Ultravalve, Franks last re-iteration on what could be done to make the ST-70 the best it could be...from his perspective.

Stopped making these as well...wonderful pairing.
The Schiit Multibit 2 works well in this chain...

Wonder when Schiit will sell its 1,000,000 device!
Has to be getting close me thinks?
:>)
I remember Frank. Whenever I visited my brother back in the 80's (If memory serves) in Mequon, WI, we'd visit Frank at his shop in Brown Deer to see what he was up to. Heard some of his early iterations of the Stereo 70 on stock Dynaco chassis. Delightful sounding amps. Back then even the current production vacuum tubes were very good and Dyna's output transformers at that time were well regarded.

To my knowledge I never saw another amp with tube sockets on the front of the chassis to make bias adjustments.
1690237573863.png
 
Last edited:
Jul 24, 2023 at 6:48 PM Post #122,237 of 154,421
I bought the preamp that Frank Van Alstine used in his demo room in RMAF 2003. The "AVA AVASTAR Hybrid Preamplifier" uses a 6CG7 gain stage with MOSFET line drivers. Still in daily use here as my main preamp driving one of Aegir/Vidar/Ghorn/and two other tube amps, each, in turn, driving my Zu Essence speakers.

JC
 
Jul 24, 2023 at 6:55 PM Post #122,238 of 154,421
... In the real world, both happens. ...
If one were to consider the mathematics versus the physics:

It's likely that the recorded value (i.e. the magnitude) of the signal is imprecisely recorded (slightly too high/low) at those "lines" as well as the timing of when the magnitude is recorded (too early, too late). Especially given the physical characters of the devices used to perform these measurements.

All relative to the mathematics that describe how to do the sampling. The engineers say, "Well, if I use N bits that's good enough and if my clock goes X fast that's also good enough, problem solved."

Then the physicists say, "assume the signal is a spherical cow ... problem solved!"
 
Jul 24, 2023 at 6:58 PM Post #122,239 of 154,421
Jitter doesn't matter at all during storage or during any asynchronous transmission of a digital audio signal, as the values will be buffered before playback, and the playback is controlled by its own clock
Emphasis mine. That clock's signal is not immune from the effects of noise. In fact it can be modulated by noise which will change its waveform. This is why even an async transmission over usb doesn't guarantee no degradation of the timing signal at the point of conversion.

It's at this point of conversion that we should have the most concern as audiophiles, because when the transmission scheme is of high enough quality (e.g. Unison USB), its jitter is essentially a non issue compared to the jitter of the clock governing the rate at which data is moved into the D/A chip's shift registers and subsequently outputted as an analog voltage.
 
Last edited:
Jul 24, 2023 at 6:59 PM Post #122,240 of 154,421
Gungnir MB Unison upgrade OR MMB2?

Would prefer the form factor of the MMB2 these days but $$$...
 
Jul 24, 2023 at 7:05 PM Post #122,241 of 154,421
Gungnir MB Unison upgrade OR MMB2?

Would prefer the form factor of the MMB2 these days but $$$...
Gungnir unison mb has great synergy with mjolnir 2 and genelec 8010A with a goldpoint passive. Sad to see it discontinued. That’s the rig in my study.

Closest I’ve heard is bifrost 2/64.
 
Jul 24, 2023 at 7:34 PM Post #122,243 of 154,421
The term jitter describes the deviation of a signal's true sampling interval from its ideal.

If you digitize an analog signal at a sampling rate of 44.1kHz, you will take 44,100 samples per second of the signal's state at that sample's precise point in time. Which means that you would ideally take one sample every 22.675737 microseconds.

In the real world, the sampling interval will deviate from that ideal. Some of your samples will occur a few tenths of a microsecond before that ideal interval, others a few tenths of a microsecond after.

When these samples get saved to your storage medium, they will be written as a continuous stream of values, but without any information as to their actual timing, and/or deviation thereof. And when that stream of your previously stored samples is played back, it will simply be assumed that they should be played back at a constant rate of 44,100 values per second, equally spaced at the same 22.675737 microseconds that they were recorded at.

To understand what role jitter plays during recording, imagine the following:

Imagine a perfectly smooth sine wave drawn on a sheet of graph paper.
Write down the Y-value of the sine wave at every point where it crosses a vertical line on your graph paper.
Now draw a dot for each of the values you've just written down, precisely on the same vertical line that you took the value from, at the appropriate Y-position an inch or so below your original sign wave.
Once you're done, you should end up with a very close approximation of your original sine wave. You have just recorded and played back a jitter-free signal.

Now repeat the above, but instead of writing down the Y-value of the sine wave at every point where it crosses a vertical line on your graph paper, measure each and every value slightly before or slightly after that vertical line on your graph paper, alternating between "slightly too early" and "slightly too late" at random.
Now draw a dot for each of the values you've just written down, again precisely on the same vertical line that you (sort of) took the value from, at the appropriate Y-position an inch or so below your original sine wave.
Once you're done, you should end up with a still somewhat close approximation of your original sine wave — but instead of a continuously smooth sine wave, you will now have something that looks a bit bumpy. You have just recorded a jittered signal, and played it back jitter-free.

The inverse is true as well. Measure your sine wave precisely on the vertical lines, but draw each value slightly before or after that vertical line at randomly changing deviations, and you will, again, end up with a somewhat bumpy representation of your original signal. You are looking at a jittery playback of your perfectly sampled original signal.

In the real world, both happens. So not only do you not have a perfectly regular sampling interval, you also don't have a perfectly regular playback. The trick is to minimize those deviations from the ideal interval on both ends, but you will never be able to get rid of it entirely.

There's also no way to compensate for this or correct the jitter after the fact, simply because the samples in your recording don't contain any information as to when exactly each sample was taken.
You could, of course, "invent" a new recording format that not only stores the sampled values themselves, but also a precise timestamp for each and every sample to the most precise degree that your hardware allows. But that wouldn't solve your problem either, as that time stamp would be informed by the same clock signal as your analog to digital converter; the timestamp values would very likely be just as inaccurate as your sample timings.You will probably make things even worse, since the timestamp is likely to be even less precise (because it's more involved to determine) than your actual samples were to begin with, adding deviations onto deviations.

The easiest way around this is to just use hardware during recording and playback that has a good enough internal clock to stay as close to the ideal interval as physics allows. Which is also why many of your Schiit DACs do a relay click when the sampling rate changes from one track to the next: They have dedicated clocking circuits for each, 44.1 and 48kHz, and their multiples — and whenever you hear that click, your DAC switches from one of them to another one.

And for what it's worth: Jitter doesn't matter at all during storage or during any asynchronous transmission of a digital audio signal, as the values will be buffered before playback, and the playback is controlled by its own clock. The quality of that clock matters, obviously, and so does the jitter within a synchronous digital audio signal where the signal itself directly informs the clock for playback, as is often the case in S/PDIF, for example.
Excellent description of the jitter issue. I was more interested in jitter data on the recording side. The jitter is embedded there, but how does that compare with run-of-the-mill playback jitter? Are recording consoles more robust? Better clocks, more stable?
 
Jul 24, 2023 at 7:39 PM Post #122,244 of 154,421
Gungnir MB Unison upgrade OR MMB2?

Would prefer the form factor of the MMB2 these days but $$$...
Which Gungnir MB do you have? I'm guessing A serial number if before unison. That's what I have Gungnir A1 w/ Unison.

General impression is very different tone. Gumby A1 feels a little laid back to me. MM2 is very on it. Gumby A1 great for jazz, singer songwriter. Some rock ok. Mm2 hits Grunge well. Gumby is definitely more detailed and nuanced through the range.

Put on some Norah Jones its Gumby all the way. Pearl Jam .. Well MM2 is way better.

Aside I always wonder if Jason reads this stuff and thinks... That's not it at all. Moron. Aside to the aside. I wouldn't care if he came on here and said so. Although he seems way too nice to add the moron part. I love my schiit.

As usual, with my gear in my house.
 
Last edited:
Jul 24, 2023 at 8:49 PM Post #122,245 of 154,421
I’m also not a fan of what I call the ‘SchiitSkrit’ markings on the faceplates. I don’t change the settings or sources very often, but when I do I have to consult the manual every…single…time.
I gave up and used my label maker to print ones I can read, at least for the settings I actually use. On both the remote and the DAC and preamp.
 
Jul 24, 2023 at 9:17 PM Post #122,246 of 154,421
I gave up and used my label maker to print ones I can read, at least for the settings I actually use. On both the remote and the DAC and preamp.
Pictures?
 
Jul 24, 2023 at 9:39 PM Post #122,247 of 154,421
The term jitter describes the deviation of a signal's true sampling interval from its ideal.

If you digitize an analog signal at a sampling rate of 44.1kHz, you will take 44,100 samples per second of the signal's state at that sample's precise point in time. Which means that you would ideally take one sample every 22.675737 microseconds.

In the real world, the sampling interval will deviate from that ideal. Some of your samples will occur a few tenths of a microsecond before that ideal interval, others a few tenths of a microsecond after.

When these samples get saved to your storage medium, they will be written as a continuous stream of values, but without any information as to their actual timing, and/or deviation thereof. And when that stream of your previously stored samples is played back, it will simply be assumed that they should be played back at a constant rate of 44,100 values per second, equally spaced at the same 22.675737 microseconds that they were recorded at.

To understand what role jitter plays during recording, imagine the following:

Imagine a perfectly smooth sine wave drawn on a sheet of graph paper.
Write down the Y-value of the sine wave at every point where it crosses a vertical line on your graph paper.
Now draw a dot for each of the values you've just written down, precisely on the same vertical line that you took the value from, at the appropriate Y-position an inch or so below your original sign wave.
Once you're done, you should end up with a very close approximation of your original sine wave. You have just recorded and played back a jitter-free signal.

Now repeat the above, but instead of writing down the Y-value of the sine wave at every point where it crosses a vertical line on your graph paper, measure each and every value slightly before or slightly after that vertical line on your graph paper, alternating between "slightly too early" and "slightly too late" at random.
Now draw a dot for each of the values you've just written down, again precisely on the same vertical line that you (sort of) took the value from, at the appropriate Y-position an inch or so below your original sine wave.
Once you're done, you should end up with a still somewhat close approximation of your original sine wave — but instead of a continuously smooth sine wave, you will now have something that looks a bit bumpy. You have just recorded a jittered signal, and played it back jitter-free.

The inverse is true as well. Measure your sine wave precisely on the vertical lines, but draw each value slightly before or after that vertical line at randomly changing deviations, and you will, again, end up with a somewhat bumpy representation of your original signal. You are looking at a jittery playback of your perfectly sampled original signal.

In the real world, both happens. So not only do you not have a perfectly regular sampling interval, you also don't have a perfectly regular playback. The trick is to minimize those deviations from the ideal interval on both ends, but you will never be able to get rid of it entirely.

There's also no way to compensate for this or correct the jitter after the fact, simply because the samples in your recording don't contain any information as to when exactly each sample was taken.
You could, of course, "invent" a new recording format that not only stores the sampled values themselves, but also a precise timestamp for each and every sample to the most precise degree that your hardware allows. But that wouldn't solve your problem either, as that time stamp would be informed by the same clock signal as your analog to digital converter; the timestamp values would very likely be just as inaccurate as your sample timings.You will probably make things even worse, since the timestamp is likely to be even less precise (because it's more involved to determine) than your actual samples were to begin with, adding deviations onto deviations.

The easiest way around this is to just use hardware during recording and playback that has a good enough internal clock to stay as close to the ideal interval as physics allows. Which is also why many of your Schiit DACs do a relay click when the sampling rate changes from one track to the next: They have dedicated clocking circuits for each, 44.1 and 48kHz, and their multiples — and whenever you hear that click, your DAC switches from one of them to another one.

And for what it's worth: Jitter doesn't matter at all during storage or during any asynchronous transmission of a digital audio signal, as the values will be buffered before playback, and the playback is controlled by its own clock. The quality of that clock matters, obviously, and so does the jitter within a synchronous digital audio signal where the signal itself directly informs the clock for playback, as is often the case in S/PDIF, for example.
Awesome, only required 1 bathroom break for this one, but very high quality ARTICLE as usual.
 
Last edited:
Jul 24, 2023 at 9:53 PM Post #122,248 of 154,421
Awesome, only required 1 bathroom break for this one, but very high quality ARTICLE as usual.
Thanks!
And tell your urologist that I said "hi." 😜

Pro tip for the community: This tread is best consumed while in the bathroom. ✌️😎
 
Last edited:
Jul 24, 2023 at 10:13 PM Post #122,249 of 154,421
Warning: Extended periods of sitting on the toilet while reading an ACP post can cause hemorrhoids. Save your bathroom reading for more concise posts.😒


** Excellent post, however. Jam-packed with good info relayed in a way that was very understandable.
 
Last edited:
Jul 24, 2023 at 11:03 PM Post #122,250 of 154,421
Yes. It'll be released when it's done, it'll be available through online order only, it'll have a power switch in the back — but no word yet on the hot pink finish, I'm afraid.
…And you know I was holding out for a Barbie tie-in!
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top