[chef8489]

Sorry then, I guess I missed the part about cables. Then yeah just 1s and 0s and shielded to protect against interference.

No worries. Figured you missed it and that is why I clarified.

 

[ofilippov]

We were talking about digital cables not what happens after it is converted to analogue

Correction. We were talking about cables AND interfaces. I don't want to mess with anyone here. I will be happy to learn if someone could educate me.

Honorable members of different forums with expensive equipment and tons of experience have different opinions. However, at the moment, I compiled following theoretical conclusions from their experience. By no means I suggest anyone to follow these conclusions.

1. Once USB cable is nicely done (power strands of enough thickness, nice isolation, screen, materials, etc.), its influence on the system should be *minimal*. I have Straightwire USB aka PYST from Schiit and I won't spend more money on USB cables.

However, I'd be happy to do some experiments if I find someone I can borrow a cable from. Any cable shouldn't cost more than 10-20% of the device it's plugged into. Results of using different cables of the same price may vary. Not for better of worse but just different. Repeating myself, effect is supposed to be *minimal* and can be easily neglected...

2. Different interfaces bring different results that should be easy to discern. Examples: Schiit USB 2 vs Schiit USB 5 vs SPDIF vs I2S. I guess it’s because of different hardware components, different power schematic, etc.

In several month I'm hopefully gonna buy a transport based in Raspberri Pi plus SPDIF hat and try it with Mimby, comparing it to USB input (even with Wyrd). A lot of experienced people from different forums and youtube channels hear the difference. I’ll be happy to share results of that comparison as soon as I do it.

 

[chef8489]

If the dac end everything else after the transport of the conversion of the digital to analogue is the same, it does not matter how the digital gets there as long as it does and it is perfect. It will sound the same. Thats the point of digital audio.

 

[ofilippov]

Then why people (that seem to be serious engineers) are inventing different kind of USB inplementations even within one company?)

 

[chef8489]

Just because something is more efficient does not means it affects sound. It affects overall power and the processor power and effeciency.

But there are also companies out there just making products like expensive usb and spdif cables that are just trying to make money because they know they can. They can tell audiophiles most anything and they will convince themselves they hear a difference and its gold.

 

[ScubaMan2017]

Then why people (that seem to be serious engineers) are inventing different kind of USB inplementations even within one company?)

Over at their main thread, Schiit has had all kinds of issues with USB. USB5 support is now available as an upgrade on their devices (for some, it's standard). I'm assuming my ModiMultibit (model sch-08-m multibit) has an older version of USB.
And don't even get started on the exotic cables with oxygen-free cabling (um, that's called plastic insulation [are they saying they produced the Cu cable in anoxic conditions?]). The forum members who swear by vinyl must be cackling at such technology... Interesting stuff.

 

[ofilippov]

Over at their main thread, Schiit has had all kinds of issues with USB. USB5 support is now available as an upgrade on their devices (for some, it's standard). I'm assuming my ModiMultibit (model sch-08-m multibit) has an older version of USB.
And don't even get started on the exotic cables with oxygen-free cabling (um, that's called plastic insulation [are they saying they produced the Cu cable in anoxic conditions?]). The forum members who swear by vinyl must be cackling at such technology... Interesting stuff.

Modi 4490 and Multibit both have usb2 version. They don't have enough space for USB 5 implementation.

By the way almost all professional cables such as Mogami or Gotham, etc (I mean pro, not audiophile/fool) use oxygen free copper. It's just the widely used technology that became marketing buzzword.

 

[loki993]

Then why people (that seem to be serious engineers) are inventing different kind of USB inplementations even within one company?)

Implementation and cables are 2 very different things

Over at their main thread, Schiit has had all kinds of issues with USB. USB5 support is now available as an upgrade on their devices (for some, it's standard). I'm assuming my ModiMultibit (model sch-08-m multibit) has an older version of USB.
And don't even get started on the exotic cables with oxygen-free cabling (um, that's called plastic insulation [are they saying they produced the Cu cable in anoxic conditions?]). The forum members who swear by vinyl must be cackling at such technology... Interesting stuff.

Im not sure if Mimby came out before or after gen5 but the gen 5 usb board is large and the reason mimby doesn't have it is because it wont fit.

Analog is a totally different animal and cables do in fact matter, how much really and for what cost though is still debatable.

The real moral of this whole thing is cables may or may not matter but the gain you get when they do in relation to the money spent is probably not worth it ..that money would be better spent and you would get significantly more gain by just upgrading your equipment.

 

[ofilippov]

Implementation and cables are 2 very different things



Im not sure if Mimby came out before or after gen5 but the gen 5 usb board is large and the reason mimby doesn't have it is because it wont fit.

Analog is a totally different animal and cables do in fact matter, how much really and for what cost though is still debatable.

The real moral of this whole thing is cables may or may not matter but the gain you get when they do in relation to the money spent is probably not worth it ..that money would be better spent and you would get significantly more gain by just upgrading your equipment.

I agree with your way of thinking. And I guess each one of us should find his/her balance and keep diminishing returns at minimum.

Analog cables do matter. I have 3 of them for hd6xx, 2 of which diy (nothing fancy, from pro audio supplies). And I clearly prefer one over others. But I could definitely live with any of them. Same with my interconnects to lsr305.

 

[mgivens]

If you get around to it, I'd love to hear more detailed impressions on the Mimby vs. Gumby. I'm this close to pulling the trigger on a Gumby, and I'm interested in getting an idea of just how much different the Gumby is vs. Mimby. FWIW, Mimby will remain in my desktop set-up and Gumby will eventually become a part of the "big rig."

Thanks!

it has been a while since Ive had the mimby so i feel a little uncomfortable getting into specifics about them. however like i said i could not tell the difference between the mimby and bimby... the gumby has been great though and i plan on keeping it in my system for a while. i just upgraded to usb gen 5 and honesty haven't heard much of a difference. its been on a week. however Ive never had usb problems before.

 

[ofilippov]

Well, back on topic. Modi MB is great DAC and I like it very much after listening to it on several systems. But USB is the weak link of the DAC. You have to consider that making a purchase.

As I'm still waiting for 502DAC that I want to use as a streamer with RPI (through coax). So I will share some thoughts about coax later, when I have it. But I came across a used Wyrd for a good price. Just wanted to see if it influences the sound. And, to my surprise, the result was quite audible. I used a track "Ain't We Got Fun" by Alexis Cole as a reference. There is a drum brush playing in that track. And without Wyrd it was smoothed out. I didn't hear how each single metal wire hits the drum (or could barely hear it, more imagining after I new how can it sound). But when Wyrd was connected before the DAC, I heard it clearly. And... how to say that... sound attack (the beginning front and the trailing end of each sound) was percieved cleaner and more defined. Such conclusion was maid by me, my father and even appreciated to some degree by his wife, who isn't really interested in all that boxes. And the system even wasn't quite resolving.

The set up consisted of
Android Phone (Neutron Player) -> short OTG cable -> Shiit PYST -> (optional Wyrd) -> Shiit PYST -> Modi MB -> Old 100Watt amp -> Big old speakers

It was much harder to percieve a difference (with or without Wyrd) on PC -> Modi MB -> Magni 3 -> HD650 but it was there. The difference is more apparent on speakers to me.

I think, it's absolutely worth having better USB implementation if you want to use usb. Considering that Wyrd may be not the best tool for that purpose, and that people usually buy Eitr instead, the price of Modi MB in that scenario can rise up to 250+180 = $430. Add better PSU (I don't particulary like a bit buzzing and smelling Modi wall wart) and voila, Bifrost with USB Gen5 seems to be quite good proposition.

Having said that, I consider Modi MB a very good little DAC that may be a great solution if you spend money on a streamer instead of decrapifier. I like the sound of Modi MB a lot.

P.S. Don't you tell me that 1s are 1s and 0s are 0s. Digital interface matters.

 

[chef8489]

Well, back on topic. Modi MB is great DAC and I like it very much after listening to it on several systems. But USB is the weak link of the DAC. You have to consider that making a purchase.

As I'm still waiting for 502DAC that I want to use as a streamer with RPI (through coax). So I will share some thoughts about coax later, when I have it. But I came across a used Wyrd for a good price. Just wanted to see if it influences the sound. And, to my surprise, the result was quite audible. I used a track "Ain't We Got Fun" by Alexis Cole as a reference. There is a drum brush playing in that track. And without Wyrd it was smoothed out. I didn't hear how each single metal wire hits the drum (or could barely hear it, more imagining after I new how can it sound). But when Wyrd was connected before the DAC, I heard it clearly. And... how to say that... sound attack (the beginning front and the trailing end of each sound) was percieved cleaner and more defined. Such conclusion was maid by me, my father and even appreciated to some degree by his wife, who isn't really interested in all that boxes. And the system even wasn't quite resolving.

The set up consisted of
Android Phone (Neutron Player) -> short OTG cable -> Shiit PYST -> (optional Wyrd) -> Shiit PYST -> Modi MB -> Old 100Watt amp -> Big old speakers

It was much harder to percieve a difference (with or without Wyrd) on PC -> Modi MB -> Magni 3 -> HD650 but it was there. The difference is more apparent on speakers to me.

I think, it's absolutely worth having better USB implementation if you want to use usb. Considering that Wyrd may be not the best tool for that purpose, and that people usually buy Eitr instead, the price of Modi MB in that scenario can rise up to 250+180 = $430. Add better PSU (I don't particulary like a bit buzzing and smelling Modi wall wart) and voila, Bifrost with USB Gen5 seems to be quite good proposition.

Having said that, I consider Modi MB a very good little DAC that may be a great solution if you spend money on a streamer instead of decrapifier. I like the sound of Modi MB a lot.

P.S. Don't you tell me that 1s are 1s and 0s are 0s. Digital interface matters.

Serious. The digital has yet to be converted into an analogue signal. Once it leaves the pc and until it arrives to the dac and is converted and run through filters there is no way you can change the data to manuplate the sound to change any detail other than interfierence. There is no way possible for any musical details to be manupulated be it the sound of a drum, sound stage, dynamic range of instruments, or seperation or details.

 

[ofilippov]

Serious. The digital has yet to be converted into an analogue signal. Once it leaves the pc and until it arrives to the dac and is converted and run through filters there is no way you can change the data to manuplate the sound to change any detail other than interfierence. There is no way possible for any musical details to be manupulated be it the sound of a drum, sound stage, dynamic range of instruments, or seperation or details.

Well than explain the difference I've heard please.

 

[chef8489]

Well than explain the difference I've heard please.

If there was no interfierence being taken out, which is what the wyrd is designed for, then it was placebo. Amazing how our ears and brains work. You want to talk about it more we can do so in another post.

 

[ofilippov]

It wasn't placebo. 3 people heard it, 1 of them even didn't know what I was doing. Second was highly sceptical. They were asked prior to me talking about observations. Next please.

We surely can switch to another thread if you want.