[networkn]

Quote:

Ok I am going to need some guidance here. I know it's probably been covered before but I have a limited time frame to make a decision and I don't want to spend money for no benefit. 
 
I have my HD650's and a Asus Xonar STX Sound Card. I am told it's a good dac/amp. I am trying to decide if I should ante up for a better amp and dac or combo. 
 
Right now I am considering:
 
O2 Amp and Dac
Bottle Crack Amp (Can you buy these assembled?)
Asgard + Bifrost Combo.
 
I listen to mostly pop music from my PC/Laptop. It would be bonus if it could work with my RX-Z7 Home Theatre Amp, but it's not something I would pay significantly for. Portability isn't really interesting to me, unless I could get equivalent sound from the portable option.
 
I am not sure how to measure everything against potential. If we said that the HD650 was a factor of 1, and the STX was a fact of say 5 (if that's the case) and 10 is the best that the HD650's could ever sound, then where would the options listed above rank? I know it's a little opinion based, and I would prefer no hysteria, but I am happy to spend some money if there is perceptable differences. I am not really interested in spending $500 for a 1-2% difference that it would be questionable I'd notice.
 
Any advice gratefully accepted. 
 
One Final Question;
 
Do you think the HE400's are different/good enough to buy to try against or to complement the HD650's?

 
Hi There!
 
Ok perhaps I overcomplicated it, which of the 3 Amps or Dacs I am considering is going to get the most out of the HD650's? Are these enough of an upgrade for me to see a noticable improvement over my STX?

 

[HamilcarBarca]

Quote:

Quote:

I have my HD650's and a Asus Xonar STX Sound Card. I am told it's a good dac/amp. I am trying to decide if I should ante up for a better amp and dac or combo. 
 
Right now I am considering:
 
O2 Amp and Dac
Bottle Crack Amp (Can you buy these assembled?)
Asgard + Bifrost Combo.
[...]

Hi There!
 
Ok perhaps I overcomplicated it, which of the 3 Amps or Dacs I am considering is going to get the most out of the HD650's? Are these enough of an upgrade for me to see a noticable improvement over my STX?

 
The ODAC+O2 Combo will get "the most" out of the HD-650. They're an improvement of my Realtek chipset. I don't know how that compares with the STX.
 
That doesn't necessarily mean "more" (or "less") than the Asgard + Bifrost Combo.
 
It's not hard to drive those Senn's to their full capability. You don't have to spend a lot of money if you're careful to avoid inferior electronics.

 

[wazzupi]

The code seems to only work for usa ordsrs

 

[Thanasis]

thank you wazzapi...

 

[networkn]

Quote:

 
The ODAC+O2 Combo will get "the most" out of the HD-650. They're an improvement of my Realtek chipset. I don't know how that compares with the STX.
 
That doesn't necessarily mean "more" (or "less") than the Asgard + Bifrost Combo.
 
It's not hard to drive those Senn's to their full capability. You don't have to spend a lot of money if you're careful to avoid inferior electronics.

 
Thank you. There seems to be considerable debate tube amp vs SS Amp, and if I am reading properly, tubes produce a warmer sound with less bass, and the SS amps produce a tighter more defined and bassy sound would that be fair? It's not a matter of right or wrong, but rather what sound you prefer? Given the HD650's are considered a warm phone, would that not indicate that to balance that you would want a SS for that HP?
 
Secondly you say the Odac and O2 will get the most from my Headphones, so basically any more than that would be a waste?

 

[HamilcarBarca]

Quote:

Originally Posted by networkn /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Thank you. There seems to be considerable debate tube amp vs SS Amp, and if I am reading properly, tubes produce a warmer sound with less bass, and the SS amps produce a tighter more defined and bassy sound would that be fair? It's not a matter of right or wrong, but rather what sound you prefer?

 
Debate and endless flame wars and if I get into another flame war, I'll be banned.
 
I think you've summarized the general arguments about tubes and SS designs. Not every tube amp has a warmer sound with looser bass and not every SS amp has a cooler sound with tighter bass. It's up to the skill of the designer and most importantly the intent of the manufacturer.
 
Right and wrong? Definitely not. If the listener enjoys the sound, who cares how anyone else feels?
 

Secondly you say the Odac and O2 will get the most from my Headphones, so basically any more than that would be a waste?

 
You've probably noticed I'm a big fan of the ODAC+O2 which I think are nearly unbeatable for the price. But the ODAC, O2, and combo have utilitarian designs.
 

1. With the combo, there's no way to tap the DAC's output. It's possible with the ODAC itself.
2. The combo isn't portable and requires an external A/C transformer. The O2 itself runs on two, rechargeable, 9V batteries.
3. The O2's connections are all on the front. The ODAC and combo have the USB connection on the back.
4. They're not particularly pretty. They are completely functional.
5. Probably others which I'm forgetting at the moment.

 
The Headstreamer II has more features than the ODAC at essentially the same price. The all-in-one combo was more appealing to me.

 

[networkn]

Quote:

 
Debate and endless flame wars and if I get into another flame war, I'll be banned.
 
I think you've summarized the general arguments about tubes and SS designs. Not every tube amp has a warmer sound with looser bass and not every SS amp has a cooler sound with tighter bass. It's up to the skill of the designer and most importantly the intent of the manufacturer.
 
Right and wrong? Definitely not. If the listener enjoys the sound, who cares how anyone else feels?
 
 
 
You've probably noticed I'm a big fan of the ODAC+O2 which I think are nearly unbeatable for the price. But the ODAC, O2, and combo have utilitarian designs.
 

1. With the combo, there's no way to tap the DAC's output. It's possible with the ODAC itself.
2. The combo isn't portable and requires an external A/C transformer. The O2 itself runs on two, rechargeable, 9V batteries.
3. The O2's connections are all on the front. The ODAC and combo have the USB connection on the back.
4. They're not particularly pretty. They are completely functional.
5. Probably others which I'm forgetting at the moment.

 
The Headstreamer II has more features than the ODAC at essentially the same price. The all-in-one combo was more appealing to me.

 
Thanks so much. I was thinking that the O2+Odac had some advantages in being powered by AC, as I don't need portability and if there is any chance of the sound being better off a desktop amp/dac combo, the size doesn't worry me too much. Would you say that pretty much whether I go with the odac, the asgard/bifrost, or the headstreamer, I am going to be getting almost 100% of the best sound out of my phones, but perhaps they sound marginally different due to different DACS or one being Tube vs SS?
 
I must admit I really enjoyed reading about the O2 stuff on the designers blog, it came across as honest and true.

 

[maarek99]

Quote:

Im with you here.The HD650 will never get more balanced than the HD600. Once I got the HD600 i sold my HD650s, had no use for them at all. I cant barley understand that I lived with my HD650 for one year without knowing about the HD600s. Its not that the HD650 are bad though, they are fun.
 
But its like the HD650s try to much. Soundstage is bigger, but a bit fuzzier in some kind of way.. Mids are more forward, making it less neutral than the HD600s.
You would think that anything the HD650 does better may be more laidback music then but the only music I actually though HD650 did better was Rock, like Iron Maiden, Metallica, etc. 
 
Someone said that comparing HD650 with HD600 its like comparing Coffee with cream or just only Coffee.

 
I can say that the HD650 is more balanced than the HD600. A piano on the HD600 is too thin. On the HD650 a piano is more like a real piano with actual heft.

 

[BobJS]

Quote:

 
I can say that the HD650 is more balanced than the HD600. A piano on the HD600 is too thin. On the HD650 a piano is more like a real piano with actual heft.

We'll have to agree to disagree here

 

[avengernoonzz]

edit:

nevermind, cable mistake

 

[fuzzybaffy]

Has anyone paired the HD-650 with a Matrix M-Stage, hopefully USB edition?
 
I'm reading that both the HD-650 and M-Stage have slightly warm sound, so I was wondering how the two would pair up. Does the two together create an overly colored sound?
 
Also, how is the DAC portion of the USB edition (if anyone has it)? Would anybody know how it would compare, to, let's say, a higher-end computer sound card, such as the HT Claro Halo? I'm reading that the M-Stage DAC only has an SnR of around 96db, whereas the HT Claro Halo, has an SnR of around 120db. Is this a big, noticeable difference?

 

[HamilcarBarca]

Quote:

Has anyone paired the HD-650 with a Matrix M-Stage, hopefully USB edition?
 
I'm reading that both the HD-650 and M-Stage have slightly warm sound, so I was wondering how the two would pair up. Does the two together create an overly colored sound?
 
Also, how is the DAC portion of the USB edition (if anyone has it)? Would anybody know how it would compare, to, let's say, a higher-end computer sound card, such as the HT Claro Halo? I'm reading that the M-Stage DAC only has an SnR of around 96db, whereas the HT Claro Halo, has an SnR of around 120db. Is this a big, noticeable difference?

 
I currently use the non-USB M-Stage and HD-650. I'd describe the '650 as "lush" but many say "warm." I don't find the M-Stage to be warm or lush. Although occasionally I think the M-Stage is a bit colored, I don't walys feel that way. I definitely don't think the two together are colored.
 
In the "Full Sized Headphone Amps" (or something like that) forum, there's an M-Stage thread where owners of the USB version discuss it. I specifically wanted the dual-RCA inputs so it wasn't for me.

 

[tdockweiler]

I just hit about 20 hours on the HD-650. Doesn't seem like much, but I just got them. I really have been listening to these way too much.
It could be my imagination, but it seems like they got a bit bassier. Makes no sense why or how. Probably hearing things. Still pretty well controlled.

I don't know if many will agree, but with the ODAC they're not all that forgiving. Harsh garbage tracks still sound bad. Not enough to cause fatigue, but almost.
It takes a VERY slight edge off the really horrible tracks. I only have a few of those...mostly awful Jpop.

BTW I tried some HD-580 grills on them for my amusement. That was good for a laugh. Shoves the lower mids in your face and bloats the bass.


Thanks to this ODAC+HD-650 I just re-ripped my entire CD collection and verified everything was in FLAC format.
Never thought i'd be doing this for an HD-650. To my ears with this setup it seems more revealing than with the HD-580/600/598. Weird.

HD-650 will probably be my favorite open headphone in the next few months. This goofy pair actually has some similarities to my favorite closed headphone the DJ100.

 

[wazzupi]

im going to buy the dj100 because of you tdock LOL since I get them pretty cheap <.< 

 

[wazzupi]

should I purchase a pair of hd600's ?