[rafaelo]

I don't really try to analyze the headphones that much as it can drive me nuts, I focus on what I feel the most comfortable listening to. I was just mentioning a trend I noticed with my ears and that dynamic headphones with symmetrical rear-venting allow me to relax and enjoy the music more than those that aren't. This is something I noticed after many years of owning and auditioning dozens upon dozens of different dynamic headphones.

So what is the venting of the driver that 560s, ndh30 and the new 490 pro are using ? I am just curious how they compare ?

 

[kman1211]

So what is the venting of the driver that 560s, ndh30 and the new 490 pro are using ? I am just curious how they compare ?

It's unsymmetrical like the HD 660S/S2. All modern HD 5xx drivers are unsymmetrical. The HD 580/600/650 and the HD 800 series are symmetrical. Most vintage Senns are symmetrical. All German-made Beyers are symmetrical, Focals (metal driver ones) are symmetrical. Many AKG's are. Many Audio-Technica's (especially higher-end models) and many higher-end Sony's are symmetrical. I haven't heard the HD 490 Pro, only heard the NDH-30 briefly. I've owned the HD 560S and the HD 400 Pro, had similar problems with those.

 

[rafaelo]

It's unsymmetrical like the HD 660S/S2. All modern HD 5xx drivers are unsymmetrical. The HD 580/600/650 and the HD 800 series are symmetrical. Most vintage Senns are symmetrical. All German-made Beyers are symmetrical, Focals (metal driver ones) are symmetrical. Many AKG's are. Many Audio-Technica's (especially higher-end models) and many higher-end Sony's are symmetrical. I haven't heard the HD 490 Pro, only heard the NDH-30 briefly. I've owned the HD 560S and the HD 400 Pro, had similar problems with those.

58X? In case it happens to know

 

[kman1211]

58X? In case it happens to know

Unsymmetrical, it uses a variation of the HD 5xx series driver. This is a subtle effect I'm talking about but it's something that gets to me personally with my long listening sessions. I wasn't the first to mention this about symmetrical venting, but I did notice a correlation with long-term fatigue and it. Everyone's ears are different of course so ymmv.

 

[Plieb]

It's unsymmetrical like the HD 660S/S2. All modern HD 5xx drivers are unsymmetrical. The HD 580/600/650 and the HD 800 series are symmetrical. Most vintage Senns are symmetrical. All German-made Beyers are symmetrical, Focals (metal driver ones) are symmetrical. Many AKG's are. Many Audio-Technica's (especially higher-end models) and many higher-end Sony's are symmetrical. I haven't heard the HD 490 Pro, only heard the NDH-30 briefly. I've owned the HD 560S and the HD 400 Pro, had similar problems with those.

Can you please explain the difference between unsymmetrical vs symmetrical? How do the drivers differ physically? Thx

 

[kman1211]

Can you please explain the difference between unsymmetrical vs symmetrical? How do the drivers differ physically? Thx

The rear-venting of the driver unit is symmetrical, can be multiple vents around the driver such as Beyers or HD 800 or opposing venting like on the HD 600/650. Unsymmetrical is when there is a PCB on the back of the driver usually creating an incomplete circle on the rear venting.

This is a symmetrical driver, notice even distribution of holes around the perimeter. (DT 990)

This is an unsymmetrical vented driver. Notice the PCB blocking part of airflow in an uneven fashion (HD 560S driver)

This is symmetrical but with opposing venting, this is found in HD 600/650 and AKG K7xx, etc. (K7xx)

 

[rafaelo]

Unsymmetrical, it uses a variation of the HD 5xx series driver. This is a subtle effect I'm talking about but it's something that gets to me personally with my long listening sessions. I wasn't the first to mention this about symmetrical venting, but I did notice a correlation with long-term fatigue and it. Everyone's ears are different of course so ymmv.

Ok thank you for your answers.

That is an interesting observation but it seems that does not effect me totally.

58x does not fatigue me at all nor of course the 6XX/650.

I believe the 600/650 reached the pinnacle of timbre and organic sound so headphones started to become more and more technical after that sometimes seems to sacrifise this organic smoothness. I feel also tired sometimes with this new generation but by a different way.

 

[Plieb]

The rear-venting of the driver unit is symmetrical, can be multiple vents around the driver such as Beyers or HD 800 or opposing venting like on the HD 600/650. Unsymmetrical is when there is a PCB on the back of the driver usually creating an incomplete circle on the rear venting.

This is a symmetrical driver, notice even distribution of holes around the perimeter. (DT 990)

This is an unsymmetrical vented driver. Notice the PCB blocking part of airflow in an uneven fashion (HD 560S driver)

This is symmetrical but with opposing venting, this is found in HD 600/650 and AKG K7xx, etc. (K7xx)

Thanks. Great explanation.

 

[kman1211]

Ok thank you for your answers.

That is an interesting observation but it seems that does not effect me totally.

58x does not fatigue me at all nor of course the 6XX/650.

I believe the 600/650 reached the pinnacle of timbre and organic sound so headphones started to become more and more technical after that sometimes seems to sacrifise this organic smoothness. I feel also tired sometimes with this new generation but by a different way.

Yeah but I'm not giving up on the S2 or anything as I don't dislike them, more like I really like them but also frustrated with them, but it seems it will take more system matching to get them to my tastes than some other headphones. And if my observations end up being proven wrong to me in the future, I'll be happy about it.

 

[rafaelo]

Yeah but I'm not giving up on the S2 or anything as I don't dislike them, more like I really like them but also frustrated with them, but it seems it will take more system matching to get them to my tastes than some other headphones. And if my observations end up being proven wrong to me in the future, I'll be happy about it.

And this is great. You have the 600 for this, the 660s2 or s1 for something else, the Beyer for another thing you like and so on.

This is more healthy behaviour IMHO than saying I have this phone and it is the best, does everything perfectly and better than everything else.

Only where is a headphone you do not like to hear at all then is time to move on.

 

[Tripokaridos]

You don't see the S/S2 in the photo becasue they were SENT BACK. The ones in the photo are the ones worth keeping in my opinion.

Oh to bad i like seeing photos with full colection of HD 6 line , if u have one of them before u sent them back share it with us it would be nice photo.
Yeah sure i understand it all about taste , personally i keep all of them because i like all of them for different reasons .

 

[Tripokaridos]

I'm beginning to think switching to unsymmetrical rear-venting on the HD 660S/S2 driver from the symmetrical venting on the HD 600/650, etc. is the culprit of them not sounding quite right to my ears compared to the HD 600/650. I have yet to hear a headphone with unsymmetrical venting sit quite right with my ears with long term listening, my ears always get bothered or fatigued in some way or form. The HD 660S was probably the least offensive here, but my ears don't relax like they do with the HD 600/650, R70x, Beyers, etc. The S2 sadly has been problematic fatigue wise.

Do u find them fatigue these 660s and s2 on all songs ? or it was specific notes ? Did u try just for test to eq them to see if that fix it ? if it does then it was something about the sound signature that u doesnt work with u . Because is true 660s and S2 up on highs are different compared to 600 and 650. the strange thing is that most people find that signature way smoother and warmer compared to 600.

 

[Tripokaridos]

Or maybe is the fact that too much detail is fatiguing. All this new generation of headphones, 660s1/2, elex and the rest are WOW headphones full of detail, dynamics, analysis and technicalities but after a long listening session you are coming out like you drove a F1 grand prix in Singapore.

Sometimes, i just put my modest 58X, which by a direct comparison is floored by the bigger brothers in technicalities, and I really enjoying listening for hours.

So who is winning here the or the ?

Do u find S2 more fatigue than S1 ? Κωνσταντινε εμενα τα S2 Ειναι πολυ ποιο σμουθ και ζεστα...

 

[Tripokaridos]

The T1.3 has more detail, dynamics, and much better imaging than the HD 660S2 and it doesn’t fatigue me at all. I’ve owned numerous headphones with more detail, it’s not a detail problem.

Really strange , U find S2 more fatigue than S1 , and also S2 more fatigue than Beyer T1.3 ??? Is this Gen 3 way different than Gen 2 ? doesnt have that Beyer type sound of 6k-7k peak ?
I think that at the end of the day the hearing of people is really different .

 

[Tripokaridos]

Yeah but I'm not giving up on the S2 or anything as I don't dislike them, more like I really like them but also frustrated with them, but it seems it will take more system matching to get them to my tastes than some other headphones. And if my observations end up being proven wrong to me in the future, I'll be happy about it.

Its not bad to dislike a Headphone , for example i dislike Koss portas that everyone love .
The problem is trashing a good quality headphone because u dont like the sound signature ( not talking about u ) , Me for example i can see the Superiority of Beyers and i have a lot of respect for them , but sound signature was something difficult for me , i have use some foam discs on some of them and use them for over a year ... amazing speed and dynamics.
So i feel the same about HD 6 line , they can say anything they want if they dont like this signature , but vocals , timbre ,organic smouth sound is spot on everyone knows that.