[ubs28]

Well, most of the time an amplifier does harm than it does good anyway unless you are trying to fix a problem and don’t want to do with software plugins. And then you also have to deal with interconnects which will change how the DAC + external amplifier sound together.

 

[daltonlanny]

I've had the HD800S for almost two years and the Utopia for going on one. My experience has been unlike the HD800S, the Utopia falls short of it's true capabilities when the amps impedance level is too high. The bass is less focused, instrument separation falls off and the over all sound becomes overly warm and less detailed. I also believe, the depth of the Utopia's sound-stage may be effected in a negative way as well. If the amp, maybe even the DAC, tends to be overly bright or maybe a bit too warm, it can also play a role in the Utopia reaching it's full potential.

Not putting the HD800S down or anything, I plan on keeping mine for a long time but the Utopia on the right setup can be breathtaking in it's own way.

I had the opposite impressions that you are talking about above...
I used the Utopia with many different amps, incuding the Auralic Taurus Mk.II, and Headamp GSX mk II, different dacs, and sources, and the results were basically the same...
Forward, in your face, tense, closed in sounding, harsher than the HD800 on some material, a slight metallic (beryllium?) coloration, bass wasn't too impressive either.
It did do some things well...dynamic punchy, high resolution, transparent, but it did not win me over and I don't think it had anything to do with the amp.
A let down for a $4,000.00 msr headphone, imho. Maybe I had a defective pair?
The HD800, 800 S, and HE-6 modded, are much better values, plus I have heard of several people having driver issues/failures with the Utopia. That's not real assuring, especially if you buy them used, with no warranty, and nearly a grand to replace the drivers.
To each his own

 

[Svatopluk]

I had the opposite impressions that you are talking about above...
I used the Utopia with many different amps, incuding the Auralic Taurus Mk.II, and Headamp GSX mk II, different dacs, and sources, and the results were basically the same...
Forward, in your face, tense, closed in sounding, harsher than the HD800 on some material, a slight metallic (beryllium?) coloration, bass wasn't too impressive either.
It did do some things well...dynamic punchy, high resolution, transparent, but it did not win me over and I don't think it had anything to do with the amp.
A let down for a $4,000.00 msr headphone, imho. Maybe I had a defective pair?
The HD800, 800 S, and HE-6 modded, are much better values.
To each his own

The best pairing I've found for the Utopia consists of the Oppo BDP-105D and it's Sabre 32 DAC feeding a HPA-V280. No treble coloration what so ever just died accurate to my ears and the bass is very impressive as well. Believe or not, I actually find the Utopia to be too warm for my taste when paired with the Gumby and V280.

 

[vlach]

The driver of the HD 800 S is too unclear and too weak (has no dynamics what’s so ever).

As much as i love the HD800, i have to agree with the above statement. Even compared to the T1 i find the dynamics lacking, somewhat soft and 'grey' in presentation.
Other than that i love it fed from a high output impedance vintage receiver and tube R2R DAC. No brightness or harshness issues at all.

 

[endgame]

So to summarize:
1. A plastic headphone has better build quality than a premium carbon fibre headphone with leather?
2. A darker headphone like the Utopia is too bright while the HD 800 S is thinner and brighter with no bass impact?

Honestly, the HD 800 S is not even in the same league. The driver of the HD 800 S is too unclear and too weak (has no dynamics what’s so ever). It’s soundstage isn’t good either. If some elements are playing within the soundstage, it’s not clear and vivid. You know it’s there somewhere in the soundstage but it’s a bit fuzzy. With the Utopia it’s all crystal clear and defined.

It’s more like comparing a 4K movie to a 1080p movie.

Also with a super resolving headphone like the Utopia, the quality of the equipment is crucial. If it sounds bad, the problem could be coming from the equipment used rather than the headphone.

I’m not saying the HD 800 and HD 800 S are bad headphones in their respective price range. But it’s not in the same league as the Focal Utopia which is a next generation headphone.

You must be trolling here.

 

[ubs28]

You must be trolling here.

Somebody speaking the thruth is your definition of a troll?

I have owned the HD 800 and HD 800 S for many years and the Utopia for over a year now so how would that make me troll as I am not biased since I have both and I pretty much know the characterics of those headphones listening to them for over a year.

 

[ubs28]

As much as i love the HD800, i have to agree with the above statement. Even compared to the T1 i find the dynamics lacking, somewhat soft and 'grey' in presentation.
Other than that i love it fed from a high output impedance vintage receiver and tube R2R DAC. No brightness or harshness issues at all.

I don’t have brightness issues wiht the HD 800 S. But it was more relatively speaking that if the Utopia is too bright, then what's the deal with the HD 800 S then?

In comparison to some of the TOTL planar headphones, the Utopia is a bit brighter though.

 

[Swiftfalcon]

I don’t have brightness issues wiht the HD 800 S. But it was more relatively speaking that if the Utopia is too bright, then what's the deal with the HD 800 S then?

In comparison to some of the TOTL planar headphones, the Utopia is a bit brighter though.

I have often wondered about the brightness of HD800S. Somehow I have a tough time appreciating ‘the brightness’, treble spike etc. I am sure my high frequency hearing is shot or something. I have no problem listening to HD800S from a Schiit Jotunheim. I even often wonder if I should have just gone for stock HD800.

 

[Whazzzup]

Hd800S is not bright, it’s air open ended sound is accentuated by a sharp mid detail which gives it that fantastic definition albeit it can also come of as ‘thin or sharp or artificial ‘ however I am starting to conclude that all flagship headphones have trade offs, so for me hd800S still has one of the best sound dynamics for me.

 

[endgame]

Somebody speaking the thruth is your definition of a troll?

I have owned the HD 800 and HD 800 S for many years and the Utopia for over a year now so how would that make me troll as I am not biased since I have both and I pretty much know the characterics of those headphones listening to them for over a year.

You’re entitled to your opinion but you said the 800S soundstage is, “not that good either.” And you said that in comparison to the Utopia whose soundstage is significantly smaller. So if that is you speaking the truth, then you pretty much have the opposite opinion of 99.99% of everyone else who has heard those headphones.

 

[ubs28]

You’re entitled to your opinion but you said the 800S soundstage is, “not that good either.” And you said that in comparison to the Utopia whose soundstage is significantly smaller. So if that is you speaking the truth, then you pretty much have the opposite opinion of 99.99% of everyone else who has heard those headphones.

It is not that much smaller. And who says bigger is always better when you have to factor in also other metrics as to how coherent the soundstage, the ability to clearly and vividly place instruments within the soundstage. The HD 800 S gets beaten in those area’s. The HD 800 S soundstage is more unclear.

But if you only judge the soundstage by how wide it is rather than the quality of it ...

That is almost like saying that the JVC with extra bass boost has the best bass of all headphones just because it’s bass is bigger than headphone X.

 

[TYATYA]

So to summarize:
1. A plastic headphone has better build quality than a premium carbon fibre headphone with leather?
2. A darker headphone like the Utopia is too bright while the HD 800 S is thinner and brighter with no bass impact?

Honestly, the HD 800 S is not even in the same league. The driver of the HD 800 S is too unclear and too weak (has no dynamics what’s so ever). It’s soundstage isn’t good either....

(1) build quality is no related to SQ. I am sure you know that. While everyone talking about sq.
(2) Utopia, I have no words bcs not heard it yet. But, 800s as you said (relatively) "no bass"?
Is it lack of bass you meant?
Other thing you said about 800s drivers, weak. I dont think they are weak, but frame of body is not solid enough. I find it weak, NOT driver. There is a bass improve of 800s when holding its frame a bit tight (especially at hi vol.)
Soundstage is good, no claim

 

[ubs28]

(1) build quality is no related to SQ. I am sure you know that. While everyone talking about sq.
(2) Utopia, I have no words bcs not heard it yet. But, 800s as you said (relatively) "no bass"?
Is it lack of bass you meant?
Other thing you said about 800s drivers, weak. I dont think they are weak, but frame of body is not solid enough. I find it weak, NOT driver. There is a bass improve of 800s when holding its frame a bit tight (especially at hi vol.)
Soundstage is good, no claim

Well, i am not sure where the lack of dynamics is coming from. But I assume it is power of the drivers. Which is why I said the drivers are weak / (not strong enough) to deliver the dynamics. But I could be wrong ofcourse.

Well, most planar headphones and also the Utopia shows that it really has very little sub bass and it is also lacking in bass impact (probably caused by the lack of dynamics).

 

[endgame]

It is not that much smaller. And who says bigger is always better when you have to factor in also other metrics as to how coherent the soundstage, the ability to clearly and vividly place instruments within the soundstage. The HD 800 S gets beaten in those area’s. The HD 800 S soundstage is more unclear.

But if you only judge the soundstage by how wide it is rather than the quality of it ...

That is almost like saying that the JVC with extra bass boost has the best bass of all headphones just because it’s bass is bigger than headphone X.

Do you know how to read? I never said anything about bigger being better, but I do prefer it and so do many others. The point is that he said it’s small and not very good. That is absolute bull crap. The 800 has one of the largest soundstage’s that exists if not THE largest. Soundstage and imaging are NOT the same thing. The poster can’t come in here with Utopia having a better soundstage when everyone knows that’s simply not true. So when you make stupid claims like that, you lose your credibility. And poor dynamics? That’s another absurd claim. You can PREFER whatever you want. You can’t make asinine claims that are untrue. Every headphone can be criticized, but you don’t get to just make stuff up. Get out of here with that nonsense.

 

[ubs28]

Do you know how to read? I never said anything about bigger being better, but I do prefer it and so do many others. The point is that he said it’s small and not very good. That is absolute bull crap. The 800 has one of the largest soundstage’s that exists if not THE largest. Soundstage and imaging are NOT the same thing. The poster can’t come in here with Utopia having a better soundstage when everyone knows that’s simply not true. So when you make stupid claims like that, you lose your credibility. And poor dynamics? That’s another absurd claim. You can PREFER whatever you want. You can’t make asinine claims that are untrue. Every headphone can be criticized, but you don’t get to just make stuff up. Get out of here with that nonsense.

Somebody is having a temper.

So tell me, based on what is the soundstage of the HD 800 S better. So far the only argument I heard that it is bigger.

Ok, let’s say the HD 800 S is on par with Utopia in terms of punch and dynamics (good joke though). Because this a slam dunk win for the Utopia not worth discussing imo.