[Redcarmoose]

I have the Sony TA, IER-Z1R and 1A and 1Z. There is definitely a difference when the TA takes over. It depends on the volume used. As folks I’ve known for years and years don’t notice a need for extra volume due to listening at ultra low volume levels with the IER-Z1R.

I’m pretty much in the middle. Meaning I hear a difference but I use all three and don’t really care about the slight lack of damping on the IER with the original 1A/1Z.

Still if you go to some websites like in Chinese, they all believe the IER-Z1R is grossly underpowered by the Walkmans. 100% of the website.

The thing is damping is real. It can be physical or electronic. They do slightly different things. But electronic damping as you know affects the driver from starting and stopping in relation to impulse.

And remember this doesn’t affect volume, the volume stays almost exactly the same, you only get bass quality and soundstage.

The benefits of more juice with 4.4mm is increased soundstage as well as better bass texture and timbre. Still from the TA I get the increased power while even using 3.5mm cables. Typically I don’t change cables out of the IER-Z1R as the MMCX will not tolerate continuous cable rolling. Though I did when I first got the TA and IER-Z1R.

Your right in a sense that expectation bias can create the illusion of all this too. But.....I’m pretty sure I’m right?

But typically DD hybrids use more power I’ve found. Really it depends on your listening level.

Simply not true. The myth you need MOAR power for DD is that - a myth.

My Just ear custom is a 16mm large DD+BA hybrid with a DD that's bigger the the vast majority of the DDs in IEMs you can find and it sounds superb on my 1Z - in fact I don't even use half of the output volume.

The IER-Z1R that people swear is a power hungry hog was in fact also tuned on a 30mW Sony voice recorder the PCM-D10 to make sure it works on low power devices (I got this straight from the designer's mouth).

DDs which uses more power is a design choice by the engineer, not an inherent trait of the technology.

 

[hoofman]

My Just ear custom is a 16mm large DD+BA hybrid with a DD that's bigger the the vast majority of the DDs in IEMs you can find and it sounds superb on my 1Z - in fact I don't even use half of the output volume.

The IER-Z1R that people swear is a power hungry hog was in fact also tuned on a 30mW Sony voice recorder the PCM-D10 to make sure it works on low power devices (I got this straight from the designer's mouth).

I actually agree with you as it's the same in my case: the IER-Z1R sounds superb on my WM1Z too. I bought the 1Z knowingly that the TA gives better sound to my ears (admittedly I didn't have much time to A/B them properly and I only volume matched them by ears on the spot). Still I'm quite confident that the difference is there. It's not much and it's hard to quantify but I'd say to my tested library it was like 3-5% different, mainly in term of cleanliness and bass presentation. Considering the form factor it's needless to say how much I was impressed with the 1Z and knew for sure right there at the showroom that I can live very happy with the WM1Z ...

Still if you go to some websites like in Chinese, they all believe the IER-Z1R is grossly underpowered by the Walkmans. 100% of the website.

... which brings me to the point that: nope, I don't agree that the IER-Z1R is grossly underpowered by the Walkmans. The TA still sounds better to me personally but not that much and I'm happy to trade that difference to have something to bring with me in my pocket when I go out to my local cafe.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I actually agree with you as it's the same in my case: the IER-Z1R sounds superb on my WM1Z too. I bought the 1Z knowingly that the TA gives better sound to my ears (admittedly I didn't have much time to A/B them properly and I only volume matched them by ears on the spot). Still I'm quite confident that the difference is there. It's not much and it's hard to quantify but I'd say to my tested library it was like 3-5% different, mainly in term of cleanliness and bass presentation. Considering the form factor it's needless to say how much I was impressed with the 1Z and knew for sure right there at the showroom that I can live very happy with the WM1Z ...

... which brings me to the point that: nope, I don't agree that the IER-Z1R is grossly underpowered by the Walkmans. The TA still sounds better to me personally but not that much and I'm happy to trade that difference to have something to bring with me in my pocket when I go out to my local cafe.

We both agree. Still everyone hears different. Actually I was fully amazed how low people I know use the IER-Z1R and 1A/1Z.

I also wonder about the interpretation of the midrange with the IER-Z1R and 1Z/1A. Meaning recently I have tested a new headphone that has recessed midrange from too low of power. I know also in my history that the MDR-Z1R does that to a point, with even the TA.

So at times with the MDR-Z1R and TA it takes a certain volume level to “chase” the midrange?

 

[Rob49]

Excuse my language, I will temper myself, but its products like WM1ZM2 that lead to snake oil accusations in this hobby. We want to reward companies improve quality, not increase copper purity, triple the price then make outrageous claims of improved sound.

Not to agree or disagree, but no one has heard the player yet & I have never owned the previous device, so can’t comment, but I can give an opinion about whether something is “snake oil” based on a product that I own ( which I’m waiting for a replacement. )

After a very long time of debating to do so, I succumbed to taking the plunge to purchase the Sony DMP-Z1, 6 months ago. I’d followed the thread a long time, reading the feedback from owners, everyone saying how amazing this player was. I was a bit sceptical & thought, “Could it really be that good” ?? Are Sony’s claims, ( like above ) really true, or is it just marketing ??

Upon receiving my player, my fairly immediate thoughts were,all the extremely positive feedback from owners was true & what Sony claimed was true. It wasn’t marketing, so I have nothing to really doubt, that the above will not be true.

Sony, are known for quality of product & the most important thing of all to them is quality of sound, that’s their only goal. It’s their reputation, for all these years, their aim isn’t to deceive the consumer.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Not to agree or disagree, but no one has heard the player yet & I have never owned the previous device, so can’t comment, but I can give an opinion about whether something is “snake oil” based on a product that I own ( which I’m waiting for a replacement. )

After a very long time of debating to do so, I succumbed to taking the plunge to purchase the Sony DMP-Z1, 6 months ago. I’d followed the thread a long time, reading the feedback from owners, everyone saying how amazing this player was. I was a bit sceptical & thought, “Could it really be that good” ?? Are Sony’s claims, ( like above ) really true, or is it just marketing ??

Upon receiving my player, my fairly immediate thoughts were,all the extremely positive feedback from owners was true & what Sony claimed was true. It wasn’t marketing, so I have nothing to really doubt, that the above will not be true.

Sony, are known for quality of product & the most important thing of all to them is quality of sound, that’s their only goal. It’s their reputation, for all these years, their aim isn’t to deceive the consumer.

Well, I’m optimistic. I mean I have been a follower of Sony for a while.
https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SonyNWDestTool

Though I wonder about the destination of the device. Meaning before MrWalkman firmware (MrWalkman One) and above Rockbox, we had a bouquet of tones. What ever tone you happened to get depended on the place you purchased your Walkman from. So depending on your destination you had a volume cap, or a certain tone which Sony determined was the very best for you. Now with Linux you could simply download the above software into your PC and change the destination that the device thought it was at. Same as using MrWalkman firmware.

Mind you the places with Volume Limitation were the worst. But more than that, the best sounding destination was J.......I thought? To me in the old days Japan was the best sound due to adding a warming bass to the 1A. The lock-up though that was done by Sony was you could only use it if you read Japanese.

I arrived at Sony Tokyo headquarters and walked in to find Japan devices that were only in Japanese. I was going to pick up a ZX300 but it was Japanese only. The gal said it would be easy to use as I was already fully good at the English version with the 1A/1Z, and I could simply recognize the areas in the player.

So the best tone (in a way) they kept for Japan! But luckily Rockbox and MrWalkman changed all that. Sadly the Android (MK2 Players) will stay with the included regions and not be able to be hacked.

 

[Rob49]

Of course, the whole @MrWalkman equation is another story & we all have to be grateful for that. For those reasons, people may not be bothered in purchasing any of the new Walkman’s, it’s highly unlikely for myself, given my previous expenditure & I’m happy with the sound of my ZX300, thanks to the aforementioned.

 

[gerelmx1986]

Glad i jumped on the DMP-Z1 too. I am more than happy with it

 

[purk]

Tuning and performing optimally are two different things IMO. I also own the IER-Z1R along with the 1Z as well as number of other desktop amps including the TA-ZH1ES and DMP-Z1. The IER-Z1R always sounds really good out of the 1Z but it is even better with greater sense of dynamics with larger and deeper staging on my desktop amps. Hell, my old Sony MDR-E888 that I have reterminated in 4.4 mm sounds awesome now out of my SuSy Dynalo Mini/GSX mini. Despite the the S-Master being low power compared to others MFRs, it still have a really wonderful tonal balanced (wonderful tuning). We all just wish for a little more power from the new Walkman so we can just have a device that can power our headphones optimally without the need for external amplification.

 

[proedros]

It’s pretty easy to see that these WM1A/WM1Z MK2s will soon to be followed by MK3 that will roll back to the original Sony firmwares.

man if sony releases a MK3 in say 2024 with much better sund than MK1 , i think i will go to the band and ask for a loan

MK2 seems a sidegrade at best , maybe if/when my wm1a dies and reviews say that mk2 is a definite improvement sq-wise i may buy it

until then , i'd rather buy a 1z (used/mint) but again i need to visit the bank for a loan there as well

 

[Rob49]

Reading on Sony webpage, I do wonder if they are trying to get near to the sound of the DMP-Z1, with the WM1Z(M2) ?? Which is a obviously a plus & potentially exciting.

 

[gerelmx1986]

With such pricing - i know is related to T&D efforts - is trying to commit suicide

 

[chinaman8]

man if sony releases a MK3 in say 2024 with much better sund than MK1 , i think i will go to the band and ask for a loan

MK2 seems a sidegrade at best , maybe if/when my wm1a dies and reviews say that mk2 is a definite improvement sq-wise i may buy it

until then , i'd rather buy a 1z (used/mint) but again i need to visit the bank for a loan there as well

They wont release mk3 so soon if they release one

 

[purk]

Reading on Sony webpage, I do wonder if they are trying to get near to the sound of the DMP-Z1, with the WM1Z(M2) ?? Which is a obviously a plus & potentially exciting.

I am sure that they are but the DMP-Z1 has something that the 1ZM2 doesn’t have and that is power, much better power supply, and better components. Maybe we will get there five years from now on the 50th anniversary model.

 

[chinaman8]

Glad i jumped on the DMP-Z1 too. I am more than happy with it

Anyone consider WM1ZM2 should just get DMP-Z1, measures as good if not better than the "best" desktop amps and is still somewhat portable with enough power.
Anyone with WM1A and WM1Z and is considering WM1Z/AM2 same thing
S-master is good, but not great or excellent. Why Sony use dual AK4497 (best at the time) not AK4493 or 9068S. Because best DAC + implementation always require the best parts. Still WM1A/Z and WM1A/ZM2 is the best "DAP." Best dap requires an all-in-one experience and convenience that other plays still haven't match. Sony one of the only daps that have hardware fast forward volume side keys, amazing battery life and build quality, tuning and excellent UI with walkman os.

 

[nanaholic]

The benefits of more juice with 4.4mm is increased soundstage as well as better bass texture and timbre.

That's just personal preference, not a measurable subjective fact.

This is the issue people have - they are confusing their subjective preference of "I don't like this sound" to the objective fact of "the phone is under driven" and doesn't know that they two actually has no correlation at all.

Let me this to the extremities say you plug in a HD800 into an iPhone and gives it to someone, and then into a "proper" desktop setup and ask the person which setup he likes better. The person then tells you "I like it out of the iPhone because the desktop setup sounds really hollow with the super wide soundstage, i like the warm timid sound from the iPhone with the sound really close" then what are you going to chalk that up to? That the person "doesn't know any better" or he doesn't know what "true audio is"? That's hybris of the highest degree because you are disagreeing with someone's personal subjective preference like it can refuted as a fact.

Most audiophile or the 100% of the Chinese websites don't even know this because they don't understand this simple logic of separating subjective preferences with objective facts, I have little regards for that kind of opinions.