[Sonywalkmanuser]

I believe @Whitigir has more experience with debloating other DAPs not just with Sony's, so I think he will be able to share with us on his experiences debloating the other DAPs and if these daps have improvements to sound quality by debloat/optimizing the software/OS.

It's also in the same logic, why would IBASSO/FIIO/CAYIN/SHANLING/HIBY etc allow for bloatware having an influence on SQ?

 

[psikey]

I believe @Whitigir has more experience with debloating other DAPs not just with Sony's, so I think he will be able to share with us on his experiences debloating the other DAPs and if these daps have improvements to sound quality by debloat/optimizing the software/OS.

It's also in the same logic, why would IBASSO/FIIO/CAYIN/SHANLING/HIBY etc allow for bloatware having an influence on SQ?

Hiby don't, they already have their own cut down version of Android, bare stuff needed only.

 

[Sonywalkmanuser]

Hiby don't, they already have their own cut down version of Android, bare stuff needed only.

I mean if @Whitigir can access the root of this Hiby, it is very likely he will be able to find additional stuff to optimize upon(that hiby misses out or have set to save battery), like the cpu governor or the build.prop. What I am saying is if we really want to nitpick, there's plenty of optimizing stuff that these DAP manufacturers didn't do enough.

 

[Whitigir]

I mean if @Whitigir can access the root of this Hiby, it is very likely he will be able to find additional stuff to optimize upon(that hiby misses out or have set to save battery), like the cpu governor or the build.prop. What I am saying is if we really want to nitpick, there's plenty of optimizing stuff that these DAP manufacturers didn't do enough.

From what I know and have seen by far, these android devices need a minimum prerequisites and also buying the licenses for AndroidOS. Rooting will give a better access to the OS which in turns allowing better controlling of the systems. Some people can possibly re-work the OS firmware to rearrange the priorities of the systems and so on (doing this will help more). However, people are not willing to pay for such things as they think OS doesn’t matter and will not affect performances.

I see that as a manufacturers, they have no choices, either buying the licenses and stick with the prerequisites, or use their own OS. The rooting and hacking is opened by Android itself and that the users can do whatever with it. However, companies do not want to possibly have to fix / accepting returns more than they need to. Therefore, they either implement the hardware level to be not friendly (Sony M2) or a disclosures that rooting the OS will void services and warranty (Cayin N8ii).

Anyways, even rooting these players are not easy. Because companies do not send the img , the fire hoses that is needed. It will need someone who will dissect and extract them from the player itself, which is not an easy tasks. But when people have those roots, they also expected it for free. So, I don’t think anyone is going to work on these until things changed.

I am more of a hardware person, and Steve has the skills to pull off these specific tasks regarding firmwares and so on. He helped many people with Snapdragon 660 to having their players rooted, and that was what he mentioned. Me, on the other hands, I accept my limitations and work on what I can. The next person who is very well versed in these programs would be @MrWalkman . Not sure if he want to pick up the stick though

The things with modified firmware is that people expect to pay for a small amounts and ask for free future versions of it . Which will also requires extensive works to modify again, each and every time a company releases new firmware.

 

[Sonywalkmanuser]

Although one can argue that Sony has already installed a thick OFC copper block that should have already address the cpu noise issues thus there's no way for the software to affect the sound performance, also Sony has isolated the digital and analog sections from each other.

I would think that the steps by Sony has done a remarkable job in keeping out the processor noise but it does not totally and completely eliminate all forms of jitter caused by additional cpu load/power draw caused by these bloatwares. I think because of the unqiue way which S-master amp works by processing/pulsing a continuous streaming of bits(ones and zeros) at highly precise intervals, the sound quality can be further improved when you take even more steps to reduce system induced jitter/noise/power fluctuations/thermal noise(aka errors) which in effect, provides for a more stable and accurate word clock timings to the s-master chip.

 

[Sonywalkmanuser]

@Whitigir

I am now in the mist of comparing:

Battery Optimization: Optimized vs Not Optimized

(e.g. Settings > Apps & Notifications > See All xx apps > Music Player > Advanced > Battery > Battery Optimization > Not Optimized)

Somehow to my ears, it seems that by changing Not optimized for ALL apps/system services seems to have changed the sound by abit, music seem to be more refined, more glossy in texture, sweeter tonality with bass notes being abit more impactful in it's slam. Give it a try and see if it makes a difference at your end.

 

[Whitigir]

@Whitigir

I am now in the mist of comparing:

Battery Optimization: Optimized vs Not Optimized

(e.g. Settings > Apps & Notifications > See All xx apps > Music Player > Advanced > Battery > Battery Optimization > Not Optimized)

Somehow to my ears, it seems that by changing Not optimized for ALL apps/system services seems to have changed the sound by abit, music seem to be more refined, more glossy in texture, sweeter tonality with bass notes being abit more impactful in it's slam. Give it a try and see if it makes a difference at your end.

I am unable to observe the differences. Are you sure you have all apps disabled ?

 

[Sonywalkmanuser]

I am unable to observe the differences. Are you sure you have all apps disabled ?

I have uninstalled(not disabled) all of the following:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/son...lkman-optimization-guide.962975/post-16953155

For me I notice quite a noticeable improvement to DSEE Ultimate after removing battery optimisation on all of the remaining apps and system apps. I feel the sound on dsee ultimate has even more immediacy in the rise of transients(slightly more faster but not more stronger), which I would describe as sounding more cleaner and more silky smooth.

 

[Sonywalkmanuser]

Here's my reasoning for removing battery optimization for all the remaining apps.

Google introduced this doze mode as an effective method to improve battery life by restricting cpu intensive workloads:
https://developer.android.com/training/monitoring-device-state/doze-standby

This works great to conserve battery life when you have alot of apps/services running in the background like in the case of smartphone usage, where usually alot of non-time/performance critical apps are running(social messaging, bank apps, maps, web browsing and etc).

In the context of our M2 walkman usage which it's sole task is processing data in a time critical fashion to play high quality music, since we have already disabled or uninstall almost all of the bloatware/unwanted apps from our M2 walkman, what remains are apps that are either: essential apps required for music playback or system related services.

There's no need to restrict the processing performance of these remaining clean apps. I would believe that by removing the operating system performance restrictions will help to improve the audio quality as the audio processing is able to use the full resources of the cpu without any induced slow downs by the OS power saving features.

I think the cpu governor and battery optimization works quite similarly(or in collaberation) to reducing the overall system clock speed/performance to save battery. If I am not wrong, for other android dap when using neutron app dsd resampling, it's performances is also being affected by cpu governor. Athough we can't adjust cpu governor for our walkman, the battery optimization setting is tweakable.

I would speculate that battery optimization does have an effect on the AI processing of DSEE Ultimate and also anything else related to audio processing. I don't think I am able to determine or able to isolate which app or system services is affecting the performance of DSEE, therefor I am applying a blanket style approach to disable all battery optimization system wide.

I am not sure of how disabling all battery optimization will impact the battery life of the walkman but heck I am after sound quality first, not battery life.

I am just putting this out as an tweakable option out there for those who wish to experiment further, you don't have to apply this if it doesn't worked out or pass your logic/reasoning checks.

 

[Sonywalkmanuser]

Do take note that the above battery optimization off tweak may cause two drawbacks:

Increase battery usage
Increase heat output

I would advise to at least monitor your walkman's physical temperature and battery draw yourself and determine if the subjective sound quality improvements is worth the "risk". Especially if you are using streaming apps along with dsee ultimate, check if temperature doesn't rise too much.

 

[Whitigir]

I am unable to observe the differences. Are you sure you have all apps disabled ?

Oh, regarding this, I thought it was just battery care feature. I always had this under “not optimized”

 

[Sonywalkmanuser]

Oh, regarding this, I thought it was just battery care feature. I always had this under “not optimized”

So far I find vinyl processor and dsee ultimate seems to have its sound affected by this not optimized tweak. So far I am have been enjoying this new sound out of the dsee ultimate, to me it really elevates the vocal imaging/presence of the music.

There’s abit of warmer touch to the Walkman chassis using Walkman music app but I feel it’s nothing significant.

 

[Whitigir]

So far I find vinyl processor and dsee ultimate seems to have its sound affected by this not optimized tweak. So far I am have been enjoying this new sound out of the dsee ultimate, to me it really elevates the vocal imaging/presence of the music.

There’s abit of warmer touch to the Walkman chassis using Walkman music app but I feel it’s nothing significant.

Honestly, I don’t like vinyl engines. It seems to render a veils in textures, with some more than others

 

[Sonywalkmanuser]

Honestly, I don’t like vinyl engines. It seems to render a veils in textures, with some more than others

I just didn’t like how it reduces the depth feel of vocals. I think some will combine DSEE with Vinyl processor.

Though I think that Vinyl Processor might work well with iems/headphones that have much brighter sound signatures, reducing listening fatigue.

Maybe the added veil is useful for those who are mentally tired and want their music to take on a more relaxed and diffused sound over the more attention grabbing sound with vinyl off.

 

[Whitigir]

I just didn’t like how it reduces the depth feel of vocals. I think some will combine DSEE with Vinyl processor.

Though I think that Vinyl Processor might work well with iems/headphones that have much brighter sound signatures, reducing listening fatigue.

Maybe the added veil is useful for those who are mentally tired and want music to take on a more relaxed and diffused sound over the more attention grabbing sound with vinyl off.

I just don’t use it at all, I find DC lines riser works even better than Vinyl engines , together with DSEEHX. Each DC has it own soundstages alternated a bit, but each of them are equally beautifully done. That or DSD remastering for me