Sony Z1R....listening impressions only
Dec 27, 2023 at 11:42 PM Post #9,376 of 9,645
z1r or th900 pearl whites?
I had the red TH900, the highs were really fatiguing and the pearl has the anniversary tuning which brings them out even more. Ended up with the Z1r, far more versatile and easier to listen with IMO.
 
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Dec 28, 2023 at 2:27 AM Post #9,377 of 9,645
On the topic of easy listening, I think this is an area where the Z1R will be very divisive. I suspect it all depends on whether the two big peaks in the tuning, the 3 KHz peak and the 10 KHz peak, are bothersome to the listener. The 10K peak is something that Tyll at InnerFidelity couldn't get over. His negative review of the Z1R is why I ignored this headphone for so long (I read it when I was an audio newbie and hadn't learned to not base my decisions just on one reviewer). Looking back at it, the vast majority of what he didn't like about the headphone was that peak. Now, I can hear that peak as well as the 3K peak, but they don't bother me most of the time. The 10K peak can sometimes add unwanted sharpness to cymbals and certain vocals in modern music and can introduce this "whistling" sound in the background, but I don't find it uncomfortable to listen to. Likewise, with the 3K peak, they can make some vocals scratchy sounding at times, but they also add a desirable presence to them.

If the big peaks don't bother you, then the Z1R is quite easy to listen to. There's lots of bass to add heft and body to the sound and the normal sibilance range between 5K and 9K is quite recessed, so vocals are rarely sibilant except when they heavily token 10KHz. Vocals are imaged further away, so they aren't too forward or shouty and that adds to the relaxed character of the headphone. I find the Z1R quite good for relaxed listening in most cases. I don't listen that loudly, so the equal loudness contours of lower levels naturally mitigate the effects of the 10K peak, while the bassiness works in my favor at those same levels.

I've found the peaks also quite difficult to EQ out without also losing the easy listening traits of the Z1R. Since the mid-treble is so recessed other than those peaks, if you just EQ out those peaks, the sound becomes muddy and lacking detail and spark. So the "simple fix" of narrow-band EQ to chop off those peaks doesn't actually improve the sound as a whole; you eliminate the discomfort but eliminate detail in the process. You'd have to boost the sibilance region between 4K and 9K to compensate for the reduced peaks, but then you've lost the spatial positioning and character of vocals and strings. Vocals come to the front and strings cut through the mix. It sounds like the usual clarity-emphasized or neutral tuning, and the easy-listening qualities of the Z1R are lost.

To me, it seems that those peaks are quite strategically placed. If you want a generally recessed treble (for greater forward vocal distance and easy listening qualities), then you lose some detail in the process. To give that spatial distance between soloists and background vocals (at least in orchestral works), you need a specific peak in the upper midrange to give some vocals more presence without moving all of them forward. That's the 3KHz peak, right in the middle of the ear gain region. To avoid the upper treble sounding dull and lacking detail, there needs to be a peak there somewhere to retain that relaxed character while also providing enough perceived detail. That calls for a peak, but where? If it was lower, like 8 KHz or 6 KHz, then it would fall in the heart of the sibilance range, which can make many instruments and vocals stabby, sibilant, or tinny like on some Beyerdynamic DT models or the HD800S. If it was higher, like above 12 KHz, it can result in an overly sparkly and airy sound like some Hifiman or Audio Technica models. So by putting it at 10 KHz, it makes cymbals more prominent and gives that sense of detail and emphasis without losing the overall relaxed treble character. It's quite clever, but there is also the risk that those peaks sound too sharp for some music or for some people. Fortunately, the risk paid off for me.
 
Dec 28, 2023 at 5:15 AM Post #9,378 of 9,645
On the topic of easy listening, I think this is an area where the Z1R will be very divisive. I suspect it all depends on whether the two big peaks in the tuning, the 3 KHz peak and the 10 KHz peak, are bothersome to the listener. The 10K peak is something that Tyll at InnerFidelity couldn't get over. His negative review of the Z1R is why I ignored this headphone for so long (I read it when I was an audio newbie and hadn't learned to not base my decisions just on one reviewer). Looking back at it, the vast majority of what he didn't like about the headphone was that peak. Now, I can hear that peak as well as the 3K peak, but they don't bother me most of the time. The 10K peak can sometimes add unwanted sharpness to cymbals and certain vocals in modern music and can introduce this "whistling" sound in the background, but I don't find it uncomfortable to listen to. Likewise, with the 3K peak, they can make some vocals scratchy sounding at times, but they also add a desirable presence to them.

If the big peaks don't bother you, then the Z1R is quite easy to listen to. There's lots of bass to add heft and body to the sound and the normal sibilance range between 5K and 9K is quite recessed, so vocals are rarely sibilant except when they heavily token 10KHz. Vocals are imaged further away, so they aren't too forward or shouty and that adds to the relaxed character of the headphone. I find the Z1R quite good for relaxed listening in most cases. I don't listen that loudly, so the equal loudness contours of lower levels naturally mitigate the effects of the 10K peak, while the bassiness works in my favor at those same levels.

I've found the peaks also quite difficult to EQ out without also losing the easy listening traits of the Z1R. Since the mid-treble is so recessed other than those peaks, if you just EQ out those peaks, the sound becomes muddy and lacking detail and spark. So the "simple fix" of narrow-band EQ to chop off those peaks doesn't actually improve the sound as a whole; you eliminate the discomfort but eliminate detail in the process. You'd have to boost the sibilance region between 4K and 9K to compensate for the reduced peaks, but then you've lost the spatial positioning and character of vocals and strings. Vocals come to the front and strings cut through the mix. It sounds like the usual clarity-emphasized or neutral tuning, and the easy-listening qualities of the Z1R are lost.

To me, it seems that those peaks are quite strategically placed. If you want a generally recessed treble (for greater forward vocal distance and easy listening qualities), then you lose some detail in the process. To give that spatial distance between soloists and background vocals (at least in orchestral works), you need a specific peak in the upper midrange to give some vocals more presence without moving all of them forward. That's the 3KHz peak, right in the middle of the ear gain region. To avoid the upper treble sounding dull and lacking detail, there needs to be a peak there somewhere to retain that relaxed character while also providing enough perceived detail. That calls for a peak, but where? If it was lower, like 8 KHz or 6 KHz, then it would fall in the heart of the sibilance range, which can make many instruments and vocals stabby, sibilant, or tinny like on some Beyerdynamic DT models or the HD800S. If it was higher, like above 12 KHz, it can result in an overly sparkly and airy sound like some Hifiman or Audio Technica models. So by putting it at 10 KHz, it makes cymbals more prominent and gives that sense of detail and emphasis without losing the overall relaxed treble character. It's quite clever, but there is also the risk that those peaks sound too sharp for some music or for some people. Fortunately, the risk paid off for me.
The best fix for those peaks is a high quakity copper or pure silver cable like kimber kabke or Kavricables
 
Dec 28, 2023 at 10:47 AM Post #9,380 of 9,645
I had the red TH900, the highs were really fatiguing and the pearl has the anniversary tuning which brings them out even more. Ended up with the Z1r, far more versatile and easier to listen with IMO.
The TH900 requires either eq or a pad swap. With stock pads I find them unusable but if you try some of the ZMF pads, they come quite awesome.
 
Dec 31, 2023 at 5:32 PM Post #9,381 of 9,645
That’s really great advice actually. Selling my Z1R would in some ways to me feel like letting go of a best friend. I have a deep appreciation for what it can do sonically and bring out of me emotionally as well. I’ll heed your advice and keep it because you’re right, I will regret it. I regret even thinking about selling it haha.

I still plan to maybe fund an e3 though. I do hear the e3 has a very similar sound to the stealth/expanse where they don’t sound very far apart from one another. Any chance you could go into why the stealth and expanse disappointed you personally?
I also suggest NOT selling the Z1R's. I sold my first set in 2017 after months of ownership and I spent all of 2018-2021 full of regret! Then in sept 2021, I took the plunge a second time except this time is permanent ownership; I have owned a ton of headphones and the Z1R's are my favorite for music enjoyment. I wished I had bought the Qualia 010 back in 2005, but at the time, I was in college and dead broke; a lot of us will regret selling our beloved Z1R's once a few years have passed after end of production.
 
Dec 31, 2023 at 5:41 PM Post #9,382 of 9,645
I also suggest NOT selling the Z1R's. I sold my first set in 2017 after months of ownership and I spent all of 2018-2021 full of regret! Then in sept 2021, I took the plunge a second time except this time is permanent ownership; I have owned a ton of headphones and the Z1R's are my favorite for music enjoyment. I wished I had bought the Qualia 010 back in 2005, but at the time, I was in college and dead broke; a lot of us will regret selling our beloved Z1R's once a few years have passed after end of production.
Yeah I hear ya lol. I've decided to never sell them =). Honestly these have a presentation to them that is unlike anything else I own. I have about 10 pairs of headphones ranging in cost from 1-4k and the Z1R just has something special about it. I think it might be the most emotionally engaging headphone I own. I'll definitely regret selling it. Still hope to audition the DCA E3 sometime....
 
Dec 31, 2023 at 5:44 PM Post #9,383 of 9,645
Still hope to audition the DCA E3 sometime....
Having tried the DCA E3, they’re great headphones but they are relatively neutral and lack the punch of the Z1R in my opinion.

The E3 are just really good headphones overall but aren’t exciting in any particular way. You don’t use them and go “wow” like you do with some others. They’re more like a really nice, reliable, luxury car that is fast but also blends in a bit.
 
Dec 31, 2023 at 5:50 PM Post #9,384 of 9,645
Having tried the DCA E3, they’re great headphones but they are relatively neutral and lack the punch of the Z1R in my opinion.

The E3 are just really good headphones overall but aren’t exciting in any particular way. You don’t use them and go “wow” like you do with some others. They’re more like a really nice, reliable, luxury car that is fast but also blends in a bit.
I'm personally a big fan of DCA Ether Flow 1.1 and his Ether 2 headphones. I'd argue that those also don't possess any particular quality that makes you go "wow" yet I found myself listening to those for a long time while I owned them. I think I'm very curious about the new meta-material filter and how it makes his headphones sound. I read it sounds like you're in a damped sound room which sounds kind of cool and like something I may enjoy. Oddly enough, I feel like the Z1R also has that quality to some extent.. a very dark... pure black background on my Z1R now that I think of it. That being said.. the Z1R just blows my mind on many tracks though. It's pure joy on modern genres and the best headphone full stop I have for rock/metal music. Nothing else even comes close. It also pairs extremely well with my Lyr+ amp =)
 
Dec 31, 2023 at 5:52 PM Post #9,385 of 9,645
Yeah I hear ya lol. I've decided to never sell them =). Honestly these have a presentation to them that is unlike anything else I own. I have about 10 pairs of headphones ranging in cost from 1-4k and the Z1R just has something special about it. I think it might be the most emotionally engaging headphone I own. I'll definitely regret selling it. Still hope to audition the DCA E3 sometime....
What I love about the Z1R is the careful attention to the reproducing the recording venue, alas a big room in a studio or even a Music Hall. One of my favorite records/albums to enjoy my Z1R's is: Bounce by Terence Blanchard from 2003 via Bluenote.
 
Dec 31, 2023 at 8:46 PM Post #9,386 of 9,645
From the two posts above:

"the Z1R just blows my mind on many tracks"
"the careful attention to the reproducing the recording venue"

Exactly!

Enjoying this headphone like no other right now. Its spatial capability, the overall atmosphere it creates and its particular tuning bring out maximum emotion from so much of my favorite music.
 
Jan 2, 2024 at 4:12 PM Post #9,387 of 9,645
How are the pads holding up for you guys? I've owned the Z7 for several years and the pads are pretty icky; cracked and sticky. I'm curious how the Z1R compares.
 
Jan 2, 2024 at 5:05 PM Post #9,388 of 9,645
How are the pads holding up for you guys? I've owned the Z7 for several years and the pads are pretty icky; cracked and sticky. I'm curious how the Z1R compares.
I am not sure why some pads seem to degrade quickly and why others don't. I have a pair of Z1R that are about 5 years old, have probably 1,000-3,000 hours on them. Both my headband and ear pads are practically indistinguishable from how they looked when my pair was brand new. I'm not even kidding. I just baby it.. handle it all like I love it and store it in its wooden box when not in use. Everything looks, works, feels like the day I bought it.

My old cancelled listing if you want to reference photos to see the condition I'm talking about:

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/sony-mdr-z1r.53807/

That being said.. I've heard that some folks experience issues with the pads degrading but I have no idea why.

There is leather "creasing" on my pair which is perfectly normal for any Z1R. They are not cracks but it can be easy to mistake and think that they're cracks.
 
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Jan 2, 2024 at 5:40 PM Post #9,389 of 9,645
I am not sure why some pads seem to degrade quickly and why others don't. I have a pair of Z1R that are about 5 years old, have probably 1,000-3,000 hours on them. Both my headband and ear pads are practically indistinguishable from how they looked when my pair was brand new. I'm not even kidding. I just baby it.. handle it all like I love it and store it in its wooden box when not in use. Everything looks, works, feels like the day I bought it.

My old cancelled listing if you want to reference photos to see the condition I'm talking about:

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/sony-mdr-z1r.53807/

That being said.. I've heard that some folks experience issues with the pads degrading but I have no idea why.

There is leather "creasing" on my pair which is perfectly normal for any Z1R. They are not cracks but it can be easy to mistake and think that they're cracks.
I don't know if there are long term accumulative factors of things like sweat, shampoo or hair product chemicals that can eventually break down the leather. The climate in my country is quite humid, with a lot of damp in winter to deal with. I only use my Z1R for about 2 hours each night, then store in a protective style case with dessicant sacs. I believe the Z1R leather to be of a very high quality and if you think about leather jackets or vintage car seats etc I hope they can last for a long time. Lower tier headphones I've owned like the Denon D2000 and those Sony DJ ones with the coiled cable with their pleather pads would spontaneously crack and quickly degrade almost exactly at 7 years. It's the same time for the matte coating on electronics, it becomes gummy. I've seen headphones for sale in my country like the Z7 with the pad breakdown.
 
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