[Rayon]

What would be the best ss amp with big 3d soundstage? Not just left and right, but front and back as well with depth.

Currently I have Phonitor e which kind of puts the stage in front of me. Lately I got Feliks Euforia which kind of makes the stage of Hugo 2 bigger and music happens all around me. I would like to replicate this with SS amp.

I lately saw someone talking about Niimbus like this...

 

[jonathan c]

Try Violectric V280 (or V550) and Flux Lab Acoustics FA-22 (from Ukraine or from classified adverts).

 

[Plumbus the Wise]

If you are looking for soundstage from an amp you are barking up the wrong tree. Amps provide clean power to the driver(s). Anyone who says otherwise is doing so not based off any scientific or tested means only faulty person experience. Amps can effect noise and FR.

 

[Monsterzero]

Tube amps in general offer more of a 3D holographic stage than solid state amps do. Tubes add even order harmonics( distortion) to the music, giving it that ear pleasing, 3D sound.

Most solid state amps these days try to get the THD down to 0.001, and while that does make for a very clear, clean sound by eliminating odd order harmonics, which is also distortion but the not so good kind. Unfortunately the even order harmonics get tossed out the window as well, giving many solid state amps a bit of a sterile sound that lack the holographic stage you're looking for.

Thats not to say that you cannot get a deep stage from solid state, but in my experience I've yet to hear a solid state amp be able to compete with a good tube amp in the staging department. Even tube hybrids cannot duplicate what an OTL can do to the stage.

This is an interesting read by a guy who designed a piece of gear that puts distortion back into the music. Might help you wrap your brain around why distortion isnt always a bad thing.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/katzs-corner-episode-25-adventures-distortion

 

[ProtegeManiac]

What would be the best ss amp with big 3d soundstage? Not just left and right, but front and back as well with depth.

That still depends on the headphones, but the K701 has a deeper soundstage with my Meier Cantate.2 with Crossfeed on vs, say, the first Burson Soloist (have not tried the later versions). And while my HD600 has a deeper sound with the Cantate.2, the sound is also "narrower," same thing with the K701 vs some other amps (just not the Soloist), but note that "narrower" isn't always automatically worse in this case. Sure the HD600 sounds slightly narrower than usual but that makes the sound more coherent and spaces instruments out more proportionally, and the K701 sounds wide enough that if the amp is very sterile even if it doesn't stab your ears due to very low distortion, the cymbals can still sound like they're too far forward and/or too far to the flanks anyway.

This isn't all due to response and distortion though - much of it really comes down to headphones not working the same way as speakers, and short of listening to a recording mixed specifically for headphones playback (not a lot out there unfortunately), Crossfeed is a way to kind of mimic that. Look at it this way: sure technically it's easier to get a 3D soundstage on speakers, but now you're really dealing with the room, so what sounds very 3D (ie the exact same system) in one demo room can end up mangled when you have it set up at home and it's not always something you can fix by moving the speakers farther from the walls. In my case I ended up listening almost exclusively on headphones/IEMs* thanks to how the exterior wall of the house on one side of the room is all concrete and windows that are either open (and increase the noise floor) or all glass (reflects soundwaves differently) while the interior wall to the other side is wood, so the soundstage is more forward on one side.

*except in my car and desktop speakers for my laptop work desk because the weather here is too hot at times for wearing anything, not just headphones but also IEMs; or even a shirt

 

[Rayon]

Tube amps in general offer more of a 3D holographic stage than solid state amps do. Tubes add even order harmonics( distortion) to the music, giving it that ear pleasing, 3D sound.

Most solid state amps these days try to get the THD down to 0.001, and while that does make for a very clear, clean sound by eliminating odd order harmonics, which is also distortion but the not so good kind. Unfortunately the even order harmonics get tossed out the window as well, giving many solid state amps a bit of a sterile sound that lack the holographic stage you're looking for.

Thats not to say that you cannot get a deep stage from solid state, but in my experience I've yet to hear a solid state amp be able to compete with a good tube amp in the staging department. Even tube hybrids cannot duplicate what an OTL can do to the stage.

This is an interesting read by a guy who designed a piece of gear that puts distortion back into the music. Might help you wrap your brain around why distortion isnt always a bad thing.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/katzs-corner-episode-25-adventures-distortion

I completely agree distortion point and I know I like even order harmonics. I'd also want to have those harmonics, but I didn't mention those in this thread as I wanted to keep the point of the thread ceteris paribus. But this was very interesting that you mentioned that those harmonics could actually be creating the impression of the soundstage. This is super interesting and I'm more than happy that the two things that I like may be tied together. That means that it's easier to find ss amp with both

Check my other comment in another thread btw: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/pass-labs-hpa1.950921/post-17059040

I don't like ss amps more than tube amps because of lack of distortion, but because they are no-nonsense and less hassle. Well made ss amp just ticks all the boxes in me and I see them also as beatiful art (of engineers).

 

[Rayon]

That still depends on the headphones, but the K701 has a deeper soundstage with my Meier Cantate.2 with Crossfeed on vs, say, the first Burson Soloist (have not tried the later versions). And while my HD600 has a deeper sound with the Cantate.2, the sound is also "narrower," same thing with the K701 vs some other amps (just not the Soloist), but note that "narrower" isn't always automatically worse in this case. Sure the HD600 sounds slightly narrower than usual but that makes the sound more coherent and spaces instruments out more proportionally, and the K701 sounds wide enough that if the amp is very sterile even if it doesn't stab your ears due to very low distortion, the cymbals can still sound like they're too far forward and/or too far to the flanks anyway.

This isn't all due to response and distortion though - much of it really comes down to headphones not working the same way as speakers, and short of listening to a recording mixed specifically for headphones playback (not a lot out there unfortunately), Crossfeed is a way to kind of mimic that. Look at it this way: sure technically it's easier to get a 3D soundstage on speakers, but now you're really dealing with the room, so what sounds very 3D (ie the exact same system) in one demo room can end up mangled when you have it set up at home and it's not always something you can fix by moving the speakers farther from the walls. In my case I ended up listening almost exclusively on headphones/IEMs* thanks to how the exterior wall of the house on one side of the room is all concrete and windows that are either open (and increase the noise floor) or all glass (reflects soundwaves differently) while the interior wall to the other side is wood, so the soundstage is more forward on one side.

*except in my car and desktop speakers for my laptop work desk because the weather here is too hot at times for wearing anything, not just headphones but also IEMs; or even a shirt

Ok, some more context: I'm using Focal Utopia. I really like their sound otherwise, but I'd love to expand their stage a bit. When I listen to them through Hugo 2 -> Feliks Euforia instead of just Hugo's headphone out, the soundstage at least feels much bigger. This is the effect that I'd like to take with me to SS world.

 

[euter]

If you’re looking amp for Focal Utopia with big 3D soundstage, please read topic in head-fi about Ferrum OOR. It’s the best combination I’ve ever heard and the soundstage it’s really huge (I’ve hardly believed it’s still Utopias on my head!).

 

[Monsterzero]

I completely agree distortion point and I know I like even order harmonics. I'd also want to have those harmonics, but I didn't mention those in this thread as I wanted to keep the point of the thread ceteris paribus. But this was very interesting that you mentioned that those harmonics could actually be creating the impression of the soundstage. This is super interesting and I'm more than happy that the two things that I like may be tied together. That means that it's easier to find ss amp with both

Check my other comment in another thread btw: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/pass-labs-hpa1.950921/post-17059040

I don't like ss amps more than tube amps because of lack of distortion, but because they are no-nonsense and less hassle. Well made ss amp just ticks all the boxes in me and I see them also as beatiful art (of engineers).

Audio GD has a solid state amp that has a tube simulation switch. Ive not heard it, so im not vouching for it, but its worth investigating. Saw it on the AGD site, but I forget which amp it is.

 

[Rayon]

Audio GD has a solid state amp that has a tube simulation switch. Ive not heard it, so im not vouching for it, but its worth investigating. Saw it on the AGD site, but I forget which amp it is.

Probably this one: https://starspickeraudio.net/blogs/...dio-gd-master-9p-the-powerful-all-in-one-span

However, especially after seeing Pass' name in the link you gave me, Pass HPA-1 is kind of calling my name. Some people have tried it also with Chord Dave with very good results (not losing details/clarity). I have Holo May incoming and Focal Utopia hp so I'm also concerned about the technical performance. I wonder how that Audio GD product can compete otherwise technically? It at first looks like a one-trick pony that would end up collecting dust after the initial excitement when it needs to compete with Euforia and Phonitor. I'd like the new amp to make me sell those.

 

[paradoxper]

Introduce a tube pre into your chain and you can check all boxes.

 

[Rayon]

Introduce a tube pre into your chain and you can check all boxes.

But I specifically want to get rid of tubes. Nelson Pass has said on more than one occasion, he “likes the sound of tubes, without the hassle". This resonates 100%.

 

[paradoxper]

But I specifically want to get rid of tubes. Nelson Pass has said on more than one occasion, he “likes the sound of tubes, without the hassle". This resonates 100%.

You aren't going to achieve the staging requirements you seek, no matter CFA3, Ferrum, Niimbus, tubes are the requisite.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Ok, some more context: I'm using Focal Utopia. I really like their sound otherwise, but I'd love to expand their stage a bit. When I listen to them through Hugo 2 -> Feliks Euforia instead of just Hugo's headphone out, the soundstage at least feels much bigger. This is the effect that I'd like to take with me to SS world.

Mimicking an amp like a Euforia is a tall order, even for something like a Meier Classic FF or even something more expensive than that. You'll have to accept it can be kind of like it but not all that close to it.

 

[Nostoi]

Can't speak for the tube aspect as that's also not really my thing, but Bakoon amps have a very large soundstage. They also pair very well with Chord DACs, which I see you have.