bigshot
Headphoneus Supremus
A nice thick aftermarket power cable is harder for a puppy to chew through and electrocute himself. That's the primary advantage of aftermarket power cables that I can think of.
See ya
Steve
See ya
Steve
The advantage of aftermarket power cables
- Thread starter cvince
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cvince
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Quote:
if anything, more sewage would get into your house
To expand on this analogy, wouldn't getting a $2K power cable be equivalent like installing pipes in your house with a friction factor of 0.0001 (and 0.0000000001 after break-in somehow)?
The sewage would flow in even more smoothly and without "filtration" (AKA no accumulation of sewage on the pipes), just in the same way that dirty power coming into the uber badass powercable from the wall would flow into your audio system uncoloured and untouched.
My idea from creating this thread was that I was trying to understand how a "good" cable would even eliminate all the crapola coming out of the wall.
My definition of a "good" cable is one that transfers signals from point A to point B without any loss and minimizing interference. At least I'm sure that's the function of "good" interconnects.
If a good power cable is installed, wouldn't the main bottleneck be the nature of the electricity going through that cable?
| Originally Posted by Pibborando /img/forum/go_quote.gif Umm... power cables, no matter how nice, don't filter or clean anything. The better analogy would be getting sewage to your house but having REALLY shiny and clean pipes from there to your faucet. Sewage will still come out. |
if anything, more sewage would get into your house
To expand on this analogy, wouldn't getting a $2K power cable be equivalent like installing pipes in your house with a friction factor of 0.0001 (and 0.0000000001 after break-in somehow)?
The sewage would flow in even more smoothly and without "filtration" (AKA no accumulation of sewage on the pipes), just in the same way that dirty power coming into the uber badass powercable from the wall would flow into your audio system uncoloured and untouched.
My idea from creating this thread was that I was trying to understand how a "good" cable would even eliminate all the crapola coming out of the wall.
My definition of a "good" cable is one that transfers signals from point A to point B without any loss and minimizing interference. At least I'm sure that's the function of "good" interconnects.
If a good power cable is installed, wouldn't the main bottleneck be the nature of the electricity going through that cable?
infinitesymphony
Headphoneus Supremus
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Quote:
Yes. Therefore, since most stock power cables aren't that bad, it might be more advantageous to perform other power-related changes first. For example, putting the audio system on an isolated circuit or adding power conditioning / regeneration (though the latter has its own set of possible problems).
Without those other changes, achieving results with aftermarket power cables will depend on the qualities of a system's stock power cables and of the qualities of the power sections in the audio devices. A lot of variables.
| Originally Posted by cvince /img/forum/go_quote.gif If a good power cable is installed, wouldn't the main bottleneck be the nature of the electricity going through that cable? |
Yes. Therefore, since most stock power cables aren't that bad, it might be more advantageous to perform other power-related changes first. For example, putting the audio system on an isolated circuit or adding power conditioning / regeneration (though the latter has its own set of possible problems).
Without those other changes, achieving results with aftermarket power cables will depend on the qualities of a system's stock power cables and of the qualities of the power sections in the audio devices. A lot of variables.
jaduffy007
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Quote:
*** My first two posts at Head fi and they're both about cables. I think I better stop this trend after this post!
cvince...I'm a bit surprised that you consider yourself a skeptic about after market power cords since you're using Harmonic Tech stuff. IMO, they and VH Audio are the two best bargains in high end cables. Harmonic Tech's power cords kick serious booty. It ain't subtle. I slightly prefer VH Audio's stuff (mostly because I think VH is a better *value*), but that's just personal preference. If you feel your electronics are all solid performers, *then* try the Harmonic Tech power cord. Nothing to lose. I seriously doubt you'll return it. If you want to try out a VH Audio cord to A/B against...I plan on getting a Flavor 2 with gold Furutech ends for the Headroom Desktop PS. That cord costs $165 for 6ft.
I asked VH to make me a umbilical....no go
but Chris VenHaus (VH dude) suggested I could make one myself with his materials.
Also... InfiniteSymphony. I agree.... putting your system on a dedicated circuit is the way to go, but after market cords *still* make a valuable improvement. The stock cords usually ARE that bad imo.
I'm really surprised this (cables, etc) is such a controversial topic on Head Fi. The improvement in sound is so obvious. Oh well....
Good luck!
| Originally Posted by cvince /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm a bit of a skeptic when it comes to aftermarket power cables, |
*** My first two posts at Head fi and they're both about cables. I think I better stop this trend after this post!
cvince...I'm a bit surprised that you consider yourself a skeptic about after market power cords since you're using Harmonic Tech stuff. IMO, they and VH Audio are the two best bargains in high end cables. Harmonic Tech's power cords kick serious booty. It ain't subtle. I slightly prefer VH Audio's stuff (mostly because I think VH is a better *value*), but that's just personal preference. If you feel your electronics are all solid performers, *then* try the Harmonic Tech power cord. Nothing to lose. I seriously doubt you'll return it. If you want to try out a VH Audio cord to A/B against...I plan on getting a Flavor 2 with gold Furutech ends for the Headroom Desktop PS. That cord costs $165 for 6ft.
I asked VH to make me a umbilical....no go
Also... InfiniteSymphony. I agree.... putting your system on a dedicated circuit is the way to go, but after market cords *still* make a valuable improvement. The stock cords usually ARE that bad imo.
I'm really surprised this (cables, etc) is such a controversial topic on Head Fi. The improvement in sound is so obvious. Oh well....
Good luck!
Uncle Erik
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To the OP, buy the least expensive sturdy cable you can find.
Now, measure the socket (carefully!) with your DMM and write down the value. Next, plug in the power cord and take another measurement (again, carefully!) with your DMM from the other side of the power cord. Compare values. If they are the same, the power cord is working correctly and you should use it.
Folks, it really is that simple.
Now, measure the socket (carefully!) with your DMM and write down the value. Next, plug in the power cord and take another measurement (again, carefully!) with your DMM from the other side of the power cord. Compare values. If they are the same, the power cord is working correctly and you should use it.
Folks, it really is that simple.
jaduffy007
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Quote:
*** Against my better judgement, I'm going to dive into this a bit. I'm curious for your perspective. If power cords can not make any difference, then why would you suggest getting a "sturdy cable". I can't think of anything more vague, unscientific and purely subjective a quality as "sturdy". Regardless, how will the sturdy cord sound versus the un-sturdy cord? Why would they sound different? More importantly imo....*if* they sound different...if sturdy is *preferable* over un-sturdy.... then one has acknowledged that power cords make a difference. Yes?
| Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif To the OP, buy the least expensive sturdy cable you can find. |
*** Against my better judgement, I'm going to dive into this a bit. I'm curious for your perspective. If power cords can not make any difference, then why would you suggest getting a "sturdy cable". I can't think of anything more vague, unscientific and purely subjective a quality as "sturdy". Regardless, how will the sturdy cord sound versus the un-sturdy cord? Why would they sound different? More importantly imo....*if* they sound different...if sturdy is *preferable* over un-sturdy.... then one has acknowledged that power cords make a difference. Yes?
OverlordXenu
Headphoneus Supremus
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Quote:
So it doesn't fall apart/break/electrocute him?
I'd consider a $5 IEC power cord from RadioShack as sturdy.
| Originally Posted by jaduffy007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif *** Against my better judgement, I'm going to dive into this a bit. I'm curious for your perspective. If power cords can not make any difference, then why would you suggest getting a "sturdy cable". I can't think of anything more vague, unscientific and purely subjective a quality as "sturdy". Regardless, how will the sturdy cord sound versus the un-sturdy cord? Why would they sound different? More importantly imo....*if* they sound different...if sturdy is *preferable* over un-sturdy.... then one has acknowledged that power cords make a difference. Yes? |
So it doesn't fall apart/break/electrocute him?
I'd consider a $5 IEC power cord from RadioShack as sturdy.
Patrick82
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I got the most revealing sound with stock cables (wrapped in ERS Paper) but there was too much low-level detail which made it sound noisy and fatiguing. After I added a fat power cord before the component it made it sound slower and heavier which covered up those fatiguing low-level details. It made it sound warm, smooth, clean and musical. The thicker the cable was the blacker the background appeared, because more low-level details were removed from the music.
I like to keep the rest of the system neutral and tune the sound with aftermarket power cords instead. Using the fattest and longest cables for the computer transport worked the best because the reduction of low-level detail was smaller there than elsewhere.
I like to keep the rest of the system neutral and tune the sound with aftermarket power cords instead. Using the fattest and longest cables for the computer transport worked the best because the reduction of low-level detail was smaller there than elsewhere.
viggen
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I had Harmonic Technologies' powercord in my system and sold it after a week. They weren't my cup of tea.
cvince
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Quote:
I am using Harmonic Tech RCA interconnects.
As opposed to aftermarket power cables, I completely understand how that impacts the signal. Though I do notice a slight difference with my precisionlinks (placebo or not I can't tell), I found it hardly justified paying $120.
If the improvement of audio quality could be explained in percentages, I would say the precisionlinks only provided a 5% improvement. That would result in a percentage improvement per dollar factor of 0.042%/dollar.
In contrast the most valuable change in my system as of yet came from switching the opamp in my Fubar II DAC. I know it's not the best DAC in the world, but after swapping in the op2107ap, it opened up the soundstage, decreased harshness, and increased the scale of my audio significantly. This upgrade only costed me $30, and I would say it improved my enjoyment by a solid 20%. That's 0.67%/dollar which is just about 16 times better enjoyment per dollar spent than the interconnects.
To put things into scale, I added a DPS to my Gilmore Lite, and I found it tightened the bass, and improved the overall responsiveness and impact of my system. It is an average priced upgrade, with which I find is equivalent to that of an amp or source upgrade. At $170, I say it improved my enjoyment by a solid 30%. As a 0.176%/dollar improvement, it is still worth 4 times more than changing my ICs.
Now obviously there's the "audio-jewelery" factor. Obviously sweet cables make your system look cooler, which might psychologically trigger the perception of better sound. When we associate certain objects with certain qualities, our mind makes us believe these qualities exist. For instance, a well presented $90 dinner at an extremely high class restaurant may taste exactly the same or slightly better than a $40 dinner at a more down to scale joint, but the added pricetag and the association of high class restaurants with good food makes our brain believe that the food is indeed much better tasting.
Anyways, I digress. The initial question was how installing an excellent power cable would change the "cleanliness" of the incoming electricity (or figuratively speaking, how installing cleaner pipes would provide cleaner wastewater), and nobody has yet provided a convincing answer.
While it now seems people find that power conditioning or isolated circuits is essential to taking advantage of aftermarket power cables, which agrees with the ****-in ****-out principle, I am curious as to what transpires in one's head to justify spending >$600 on a power cable, or in Patrick's case, huge rolls of ERS paper.
Do you actually find difference THAT noticable?
| Originally Posted by jaduffy007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif *** My first two posts at Head fi and they're both about cables. I think I better stop this trend after this post! cvince...I'm a bit surprised that you consider yourself a skeptic about after market power cords since you're using Harmonic Tech stuff. |
I am using Harmonic Tech RCA interconnects.
As opposed to aftermarket power cables, I completely understand how that impacts the signal. Though I do notice a slight difference with my precisionlinks (placebo or not I can't tell), I found it hardly justified paying $120.
If the improvement of audio quality could be explained in percentages, I would say the precisionlinks only provided a 5% improvement. That would result in a percentage improvement per dollar factor of 0.042%/dollar.
In contrast the most valuable change in my system as of yet came from switching the opamp in my Fubar II DAC. I know it's not the best DAC in the world, but after swapping in the op2107ap, it opened up the soundstage, decreased harshness, and increased the scale of my audio significantly. This upgrade only costed me $30, and I would say it improved my enjoyment by a solid 20%. That's 0.67%/dollar which is just about 16 times better enjoyment per dollar spent than the interconnects.
To put things into scale, I added a DPS to my Gilmore Lite, and I found it tightened the bass, and improved the overall responsiveness and impact of my system. It is an average priced upgrade, with which I find is equivalent to that of an amp or source upgrade. At $170, I say it improved my enjoyment by a solid 30%. As a 0.176%/dollar improvement, it is still worth 4 times more than changing my ICs.
Now obviously there's the "audio-jewelery" factor. Obviously sweet cables make your system look cooler, which might psychologically trigger the perception of better sound. When we associate certain objects with certain qualities, our mind makes us believe these qualities exist. For instance, a well presented $90 dinner at an extremely high class restaurant may taste exactly the same or slightly better than a $40 dinner at a more down to scale joint, but the added pricetag and the association of high class restaurants with good food makes our brain believe that the food is indeed much better tasting.
Anyways, I digress. The initial question was how installing an excellent power cable would change the "cleanliness" of the incoming electricity (or figuratively speaking, how installing cleaner pipes would provide cleaner wastewater), and nobody has yet provided a convincing answer.
While it now seems people find that power conditioning or isolated circuits is essential to taking advantage of aftermarket power cables, which agrees with the ****-in ****-out principle, I am curious as to what transpires in one's head to justify spending >$600 on a power cable, or in Patrick's case, huge rolls of ERS paper.
Do you actually find difference THAT noticable?
cvince
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Quote:
Actually I have been electrocuted by live wires (the most un-sturdy cables) before. It was such a large shock that I flew backwards and slammed into the back wall.
I honestly don't know how it didn't offset my heartbeat
| Originally Posted by OverlordXenu /img/forum/go_quote.gif So it doesn't fall apart/break/electrocute him? I'd consider a $5 IEC power cord from RadioShack as sturdy. |
Actually I have been electrocuted by live wires (the most un-sturdy cables) before. It was such a large shock that I flew backwards and slammed into the back wall.
I honestly don't know how it didn't offset my heartbeat
chesebert
18 Years An Extra-Hardcore Head-Fi'er
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Quote:
x2
A dedicated circuit is the very 1st thing you should do as a power related tweak; in case that's not practical, a great power conditioner is a must.
| Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes. Therefore, since most stock power cables aren't that bad, it might be more advantageous to perform other power-related changes first. For example, putting the audio system on an isolated circuit or adding power conditioning / regeneration (though the latter has its own set of possible problems). Without those other changes, achieving results with aftermarket power cables will depend on the qualities of a system's stock power cables and of the qualities of the power sections in the audio devices. A lot of variables.
|
x2
A dedicated circuit is the very 1st thing you should do as a power related tweak; in case that's not practical, a great power conditioner is a must.
Nicholasheadfi2
100+ Head-Fier
Guys I am really not an expert on power cables and
By no means a believer but curious about if they make any sort of difference in my set up " now some people might say why would I spend this sort of money on braided silver core cables when you do not believe that they will make an audible difference? Silver core rhodium plated plug braided cable , build is amazing quality is fantastic , the closest I've seen similar cables are from audioquest priced at £5000
Now how much did I pay
I paid £29 for this cable if you can believe it at this build quality , but you may ask did it make a difference
Bloody he'll who needs a blind test I'm not joking the soundstage opened up more clarity on the top end with more sparkle ,
tighter base response but as I was told with silver core cables they need burning in which is another thing I do not believe in especially with cables .
Only time will tell if anyone is interested you have nothing to loose for £30 il give you guys the link I have purchased 3 and replaced all my audioquest cables .
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/35469767...omwS8R3SI-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Cheers guys .
By no means a believer but curious about if they make any sort of difference in my set up " now some people might say why would I spend this sort of money on braided silver core cables when you do not believe that they will make an audible difference? Silver core rhodium plated plug braided cable , build is amazing quality is fantastic , the closest I've seen similar cables are from audioquest priced at £5000
Now how much did I pay
I paid £29 for this cable if you can believe it at this build quality , but you may ask did it make a difference
Bloody he'll who needs a blind test I'm not joking the soundstage opened up more clarity on the top end with more sparkle ,
tighter base response but as I was told with silver core cables they need burning in which is another thing I do not believe in especially with cables .
Only time will tell if anyone is interested you have nothing to loose for £30 il give you guys the link I have purchased 3 and replaced all my audioquest cables .
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/35469767...omwS8R3SI-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Cheers guys .
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