[fjrabon]

Thanks for that comparison!

No problem, but again, I would absolutely defer to anybody who has done in depth side by side listening with any of these, as my listening of them was brief, in a meet environment and they were 4 different meets each several months apart. And using different source gear and different HD800s in some cases.

 

[ruthieandjohn]

Ha, one of the benefits of running several meets plus a decently large show in a fairly large city. Weirdly I've heard basically none of the FiiO, SMSL and audiogd stuff. Also want to hear the airist heron 5 and phonitor but haven't had a chance to hear those.

Have you heard the Sennheiser HDVD800 DAC/amp (or HDVA600 amp) with the HD800, @fjrabon? How would you compare it to the others you found suited for the HD800? Thanks!

 

[ColtMrFire]

Regarding Jotenheim vs headroom desktop and Grace m902 vs WA2: I've heard all of them, and they all sounded great with HD800, however I heard them all at separate meets/get togethers and not at the same time in controlled conditions to make detailed judgments of which is better. I couldn't see anybody being reasonably disappointed with any of them with HD800, but which is best probably depends much more on your system needs, personal preferences and upstream components than one being "better." They're all the same tier of "near end game" of getting you almost all the way there, like 99.99% but lacking a tiny amount from things like the Taurus, Torpedo, DHSA2, ragnarok, V281, etc.

About all I can say is Jotenheim is clearly the brightest of those 4, Grace m902 is most versatile, WA2 is the most euphonic and headroom desktop is probably the most neutral. They're all extremely dynamic and provide all the power the HD800 needs. Jotenheim can border on harsh if you pair it with the wrong DAC. WA2 lacks some ultimate transparency. For some people headroom desktop's tonality changes too much with crossfeed on and off.

 
Wonderfully informative post.  Thank you.
 
Someone is offering to trade a Headroom for my Jotun, that's why I asked.  Jotunheim can definitely border on too bright, mostly for pop but anything brightly mastered will border on unpleasant, but not terribly so, more like mild irritation... but that can get annoying after having it happen so much.  Most of my music is not bright (alot of classical and jazz), so it isn't a huge problem.  Jotunheim's problem is also its strength.  The bright treble is what gives it amazing clarity.  The problem is the HD800 already has a treble tilt, so it can get exacerbated.  I have decided I'd rather not mod the 800s, as it seems to slightly reduce some of the headphone's trademark transparency and soundstage... too much for my tastes.
 
Minuses for the Headroom is it doesn't have a balanced output since I have an aftermarket balanced cable for the 800, which does a nice job of shaving off the harshness by 90% or so.  I suppose I can get an XLR to 1/4 adapter and keep using the cable.  I wonder how Headroom pairs with the Modi MB (my DAC).  I understand no one can quantify which amp is "better", but I wonder if Headroom is a more suitable amp for the HD800 in terms of the treble issues.

 

[ColtMrFire]

Does anyone use a power conditioner?  I had a weird situation just now when I turned my washing machine and dryer on.  The sound got tizzy/harsh out of the Jot, very subtle but very noticeable and slowly started hurting my ears.  When I turned them off, the sound became smooth and comfortable again.  I did not realize it was the washer/dryer at first... the sound just became uncomfortably treble heavy, and as a hunch, I simply turned the dryer off and the problem went away.  I even use a power conditioner, a Belkin PURE AV, lower priced unit I got from ebay.  So it's strange it would not filter this out.  
 
I did not realize the 800 was this sensitive to something as trivial as power supply, I knew power was important before I got the 800, but it was mostly to protect my gear and maybe get a slight improvement in the sound, which is what happened... but my old headphones were not sensitive enough to pick up subtle inconsistencies like this.  I may need to look into getting a better conditioner.

 

[bigfatpaulie]

  Does anyone use a power conditioner?  I had a weird situation just now when I turned my washing machine and dryer on.  The sound got tizzy/harsh out of the Jot, very subtle but very noticeable and slowly started hurting my ears.  When I turned them off, the sound became smooth and comfortable again.  I did not realize it was the washer/dryer at first... the sound just became uncomfortably treble heavy, and as a hunch, I simply turned the dryer off and the problem went away.  I even use a power conditioner, a Belkin PURE AV, lower priced unit I got from ebay.  So it's strange it would not filter this out.  
 
I did not realize the 800 was this sensitive to something as trivial as power supply, I knew power was important before I got the 800, but it was mostly to protect my gear and maybe get a slight improvement in the sound, which is what happened... but my old headphones were not sensitive enough to pick up subtle inconsistencies like this.  I may need to look into getting a better conditioner.

 
Yes.  I live in a condo and the power here is a disaster.  I have a P5 and it reads that THD in can be as high as 8% and with a multimeter voltage can be anywhere from 105 to 125v.  I would be willing to downgrade any other part of my system before I downgraded my P5.
 
Obviously not everyone has as bad power as I do so in my case it is more crucial than others but power 100%, without a doubt, positively, absolutely matters.

 

[FLTWS]

   
Yes.  I live in a condo and the power here is a disaster.  I have a P5 and it reads that THD in can be as high as 8% and with a multimeter voltage can be anywhere from 105 to 125v.  I would be willing to downgrade any other part of my system before I downgraded my P5.
 
Obviously not everyone has as bad power as I do so in my case it is more crucial than others but power 100%, without a doubt, positively, absolutely matters.

 
Me too. I moved in to this brand new unit in 2004 and all the electric wiring & hardware is up to current code. I use line conditioners but not really that needed in my case as the power is pretty clean or at least doesn't dump any garbage on the lines I can hear. But I use a pair of voltage regulators as voltage can be all over the place, especially from April to November which is air conditioning season for me. During June thru Sept I've measured below 105v when everyone in the complex is crankin' A/C.
 
2nd reason, we have power outages a lot more often than I care think about. There usually multiple on/off events over the course of a just few minutes and that is absolutely no dam good for any of my Audio or Video gear. Between the conditioners and regulators I hope to avert the loss of anything. Especially my TV which, as I understand it, can't be fixed or replaced. It's a plasma and was discontinued years ago.

 

[Yoga]

Power conditioners. Prepare to spend some money :¬)

Make sure you look into the pro audio market. Most (£££) studios use them, and Furman is often the choice. I use the PL 8 CE, which has the guts of their flagship model but without the pretty lights (and half the price). if yo look at the reviews on U.S. shops you'll see a lot of happy campers.

Some say they compress the sound, other say they clean them up. Seems to be no single answer. I'm quite sure most people imagine most differences as you can't instantly A/B power change (throughout a system), so conformation bias and expectations/emotions can kick in and get n the way of a genuine comparison.

 

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

   
Me too. I moved in to this brand new unit in 2004 and all the electric wiring & hardware is up to current code. I use line conditioners but not really that needed in my case as the power is pretty clean or at least doesn't dump any garbage on the lines I can hear. But I use a pair of voltage regulators as voltage can be all over the place, especially from April to November which is air conditioning season for me. During June thru Sept I've measured below 105v when everyone in the complex is crankin' A/C.
 
2nd reason, we have power outages a lot more often than I care think about. There usually multiple on/off events over the course of a just few minutes and that is absolutely no dam good for any of my Audio or Video gear. Between the conditioners and regulators I hope to avert the loss of anything. Especially my TV which, as I understand it, can't be fixed or replaced. It's a plasma and was discontinued years ago.

We have solar panels and are looking at a Tesla Powerwall (or two, or three). Obviously cutting the grid altogether is a ballsy move, and we likely won't, but I've never noticed any power problems per se.

 

[fjrabon]

Have you heard the Sennheiser HDVD800 DAC/amp (or HDVA600 amp) with the HD800, @fjrabon? How would you compare it to the others you found suited for the HD800? Thanks!

Yes, I tried it out. It was a contender until I settled on the TorpedoIII. It's great. It's neutral and smooth. The DAC lacks some ultimate detail of top quality DACs. And higher end amps are a bit more transparent and dynamic. It can't compete with the truly top end amps for the HD800, but given what they're selling for now, it's quite good for the price.

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

Yes, I tried it out. It was a contender until I settled on the TorpedoIII. It's great. It's neutral and smooth. The DAC lacks some ultimate detail of top quality DACs. And higher end amps are a bit more transparent and dynamic. It can't compete with the truly top end amps for the HD800, but given what they're selling for now, it's quite good for the price.

I'm frankly stunned that Sennheiser insists on remaining in the DAC business. Gumby destroys the HDVD in terms of the DAC section, and I'm sure it destroys the HE-1 DAC as well. Headphones, yes. Amps—if you must. DACs? Go home, Axel Grell, you're drunk.

 

[Hansotek]

Does anyone use a power conditioner?  I had a weird situation just now when I turned my washing machine and dryer on.  The sound got tizzy/harsh out of the Jot, very subtle but very noticeable and slowly started hurting my ears.  When I turned them off, the sound became smooth and comfortable again.  I did not realize it was the washer/dryer at first... the sound just became uncomfortably treble heavy, and as a hunch, I simply turned the dryer off and the problem went away.  I even use a power conditioner, a Belkin PURE AV, lower priced unit I got from ebay.  So it's strange it would not filter this out.  

I did not realize the 800 was this sensitive to something as trivial as power supply, I knew power was important before I got the 800, but it was mostly to protect my gear and maybe get a slight improvement in the sound, which is what happened... but my old headphones were not sensitive enough to pick up subtle inconsistencies like this.  I may need to look into getting a better conditioner.

Yeah man, I had a similar issue in my last apartment. When my A/C kicked on, or a lot of electronics were going, my gear would sound harsh and uneven. I tried a few power conditioners from furman, etc., and they didn't do much. I actually found it was a massive difference when I picked up the PS Audio Duet on a recommendation from a friend. No more issues, no matter what was running. And even when everything was off the difference was still very noticeable, with a much lower noise floor and more powerful dynamics. I think I got it for like $200 or something. Worth every penny.

 

[RogerWilco]

I use the Balanced Power Technologies BP-1 and 2 Alpha Furutech Flux-50 Filters 

 

[ColtMrFire]

Yeah man, I had a similar issue in my last apartment. When my A/C kicked on, or a lot of electronics were going, my gear would sound harsh and uneven. I tried a few power conditioners from furman, etc., and they didn't do much. I actually found it was a massive difference when I picked up the PS Audio Duet on a recommendation from a friend. No more issues, no matter what was running. And even when everything was off the difference was still very noticeable, with a much lower noise floor and more powerful dynamics. I think I got it for like $200 or something. Worth every penny.

 
Wow, thanks so much for this.
 
It only seems to be a problem when the washer/dryer are on, or the light in my room.  I have roommates, and with them running their various devices, it didn't seem to be a problem.  
 
So as long as I plug my lamp into the hall socket (with the cable snaked under my door) and the washer/dryer are off, it seems to be fine.  During the day I don't need my light, so I probably just have to stop listening if someone is washing their clothes, it doesn't take long.
 
I will probably still look into getting that PS Audio Duet.

 

[fjrabon]

I'm frankly stunned that Sennheiser insists on remaining in the DAC business. Gumby destroys the HDVD in terms of the DAC section, and I'm sure it destroys the HE-1 DAC as well. Headphones, yes. Amps—if you must. DACs? Go home, Axel Grell, you're drunk.

Sennheiser has a lot of customers who don't go on forums and find a system that brings everything out to the absolute best sound possible. They just want something that they can order all in one place, plug it in and it sounds great.

 

[FLTWS]

   
Wow, thanks so much for this.
 
It only seems to be a problem when the washer/dryer are on, or the light in my room.  I have roommates, and with them running their various devices, it didn't seem to be a problem.  
 
So as long as I plug my lamp into the hall socket (with the cable snaked under my door) and the washer/dryer are off, it seems to be fine.  During the day I don't need my light, so I probably just have to stop listening if someone is washing their clothes, it doesn't take long.
 
I will probably still look into getting that PS Audio Duet.

 You might ask a local dealer (if you have one) to bring over one of their conditioner units that they think will solve the problem. The cheapest one that works is the one you want. If it's just the washer / dryer / light you'll know instantly whether it's going to work for you or not. That's what I did before plunking down $1,800 x 2 voltage regulators for my A/V gear. Is your light on a dimmer switch by chance?