[nanaholic]

I get the sense that Sony still thinks its name recognition is worth the premium price they charge. As someone who sold Sony products for many years I can say it does not have the cache it once did. The Chinese DAP makers have closed the gap on Sony big time and to me the Sony name is no longer worth paying more for.

I disagree - simply because other Chinese DAP makers do not have particularly good software and that they do not produce their own DAC chips. After playing with so many of the so call bang for buck DAPs, I still find Sony DAPs to be the most polished with the least "gotchas" which none of the Chinese DAP makers are able to achieve. To me, that's what's being premium is about - an all round full package, not just having best specs but bad software etc.

 

[captblaze]

I disagree - simply because other Chinese DAP makers do not have particularly good software and that they do not produce their own DAC chips. After playing with so many of the so call bang for buck DAPs, I still find Sony DAPs to be the most polished with the least "gotchas" which none of the Chinese DAP makers are able to achieve. To me, that's what's being premium is about - an all round full package, not just having best specs but bad software etc.

That is why using Android as a premium audio player O/S is not the best route to take. I am hoping that Sony can do a better implementation in the ZX500

 

[Pewterlocks]

So will the new Sony dap be able to drive my ATH-MSR7 or my Sony 1000xm2. I am half deaf ( right ear) so I do prefer a lot of power so I can turn the volume up high,usually around 65/75%

 

[imparanoic]

I disagree - simply because other Chinese DAP makers do not have particularly good software and that they do not produce their own DAC chips. After playing with so many of the so call bang for buck DAPs, I still find Sony DAPs to be the most polished with the least "gotchas" which none of the Chinese DAP makers are able to achieve. To me, that's what's being premium is about - an all round full package, not just having best specs but bad software etc.

User friendiness and relability is what i require, after 3 years of using NW-ZX100, this walkman has only crashed 5 times and resetted and back to normal with 60 seconds, no issues at all.

My friend had DX200, the UI was flaky and I initally didn't like it, but after reloading third party UI, seems to be decent, while Astell and Kern seem to decent, i am not sure about other chinese brands such as Fiio ect. on the other hand, Sony Linux UI is rarely bad, yes, some models such as NW-A40 had slow and unresponsive, but after firmware update seem to be decent, yes, sony andriod walkman was slow and sluggish as sony used 2012 outdated system on a chip for their 2014 NW-ZX1 and 2015 NW-ZX2 which was a big mistake, presumably minimal ram utilisation didn't help either, hence, why i prefer linux UI, yes it's barebones UI, but you get smooth UI and reliabilty, the battery longevity is also impressive

at the end of the day, all DAPs have advantages and disadvantages, whether it supports bluetooth 5.0, ldac, atpx hd, amp modules, good battery life, streaming apps, ext dac option, depends what really suits your need and requirements

 

[Sp12er3]

User friendiness and relability is what i require, after 3 years of using NW-ZX100, this walkman has only crashed 5 times and resetted and back to normal with 60 seconds, no issues at all.

My friend had DX200, the UI was flaky and I initally didn't like it, but after reloading third party UI, seems to be decent, while Astell and Kern seem to decent, i am not sure about other chinese brands such as Fiio ect. on the other hand, Sony Linux UI is rarely bad, yes, some models such as NW-A40 had slow and unresponsive, but after firmware update seem to be decent, yes, sony andriod walkman was slow and sluggish as sony used 2012 outdated system on a chip for their 2014 NW-ZX1 and 2015 NW-ZX2 which was a big mistake, presumably minimal ram utilisation didn't help either, hence, why i prefer linux UI, yes it's barebones UI, but you get smooth UI and reliabilty, the battery longevity is also impressive

at the end of the day, all DAPs have advantages and disadvantages, whether it supports bluetooth 5.0, ldac, atpx hd, amp modules, good battery life, streaming apps, ext dac option, depends what really suits your need and requirements

Honestly, even putting 2 years old chip in a handheld device these days is pretty fast for running android 9.

IMO the bar has been quite lowered since ZX 1/ 2 days. Its the software optimization that's been mostly bogging down those chinese android DAPs

 

[nanaholic]

Its the software optimization that's been mostly bogging down those chinese android DAPs

It's general lack of polish and QA, not optimisation.

For example lots of people where hyped about how bang for buck Hiby devices are. I picked up a Hiby R3 and then played with the software and at that time it had places where translations were not done or poorly done, playlist doesn't work, and lots of little niggles and quarks. Sure it had a lot of features, but most of them were halfassedly implemented such that it was always about waiting for the next firmware update to solve issues and you are never happy with it. Compared to the A30 at that time, it's more barebones but what's there is a completely polished user experience.

The difference between a Chinese DAP and a Sony DAP is like hot rod cars vs a genuine supercar. Sure you can probably get a hot rod car that has massive horsepower that rivals or even exceed a supercar, but the supercar doesn't ask for a premium just because it is quick - there's a certain level of finish and design to the supercar which comes with the higher price tag. And a lot of the times those differences doesn't show up on the spec sheet comparison or a short demo but only surfaces under long term ownership.

 

[fish1050]

I disagree - simply because other Chinese DAP makers do not have particularly good software and that they do not produce their own DAC chips. After playing with so many of the so call bang for buck DAPs, I still find Sony DAPs to be the most polished with the least "gotchas" which none of the Chinese DAP makers are able to achieve. To me, that's what's being premium is about - an all round full package, not just having best specs but bad software etc.

Given Sony's long history, much greater financial and R&D resources that should be a given. But I am talking about what you get for your money and sorry but Sony at least with these DAP's isn't stacking up. Sony DAP's are not without gotchas my first DAP was a Sony A17 and I had to send it in for replacement due to a poor battery and it had a few firmware updates and features that were not perfect. Will I pay $300 more for the A105 over my Fiio M7, not a chance, lets not forget no one has any significant hands on experience with these new Sony DAP's so let's hold off on the no gotchas claim until we see some real world reviews.

Chinese DAP makers are much smaller with signifcantly less resources and the question is always can you live with the "gotchas" if it stacks up in terms of features and performance for the price? Sorry but the Sony rep has taken a beating in alot of categories. Sony tv's have a much higher return rate than Samsung and LG (have the sales experience with them). They got out of the laptop business and even their phones are not the top rated. So I am not just talking about their DAP reputation but reputation overall.

 

[fish1050]

User friendiness and relability is what i require, after 3 years of using NW-ZX100, this walkman has only crashed 5 times and resetted and back to normal with 60 seconds, no issues at all.

My friend had DX200, the UI was flaky and I initally didn't like it, but after reloading third party UI, seems to be decent, while Astell and Kern seem to decent, i am not sure about other chinese brands such as Fiio ect. on the other hand, Sony Linux UI is rarely bad, yes, some models such as NW-A40 had slow and unresponsive, but after firmware update seem to be decent, yes, sony andriod walkman was slow and sluggish as sony used 2012 outdated system on a chip for their 2014 NW-ZX1 and 2015 NW-ZX2 which was a big mistake, presumably minimal ram utilisation didn't help either, hence, why i prefer linux UI, yes it's barebones UI, but you get smooth UI and reliabilty, the battery longevity is also impressive

at the end of the day, all DAPs have advantages and disadvantages, whether it supports bluetooth 5.0, ldac, atpx hd, amp modules, good battery life, streaming apps, ext dac option, depends what really suits your need and requirements

Exactly you can't paint all DAP makers with the same brush just because one company is Japanese and most of the others are Chinese. Proprietary is also not always better (WMPort), sometimes getting parts from a manufacturer who specializes in making them is better than going it alone. Sony's proprietary DAC/Amp design has not allowed them to increase power all that much. Trade off use to be power for battery life but now we see with the A105 and ZX500 that isn't the case anymore. I would love to go back to owning a Sony DAP and so hoped the A105 was going to be that DAP but it just doesn't work for me at this price. I would be willing to pay a little more for a Sony DAP but not more than double the price

I for one would love to see what Sony could produce if they went with third party DAC and opamp's from other manufacturers. It might be necessary at some point if they hope to stay in the DAP market.

 

[gerelmx1986]

Exactly you can't paint all DAP makers with the same brush just because one company is Japanese and most of the others are Chinese. Proprietary is also not always better (WMPort), sometimes getting parts from a manufacturer who specializes in making them is better than going it alone. Sony's proprietary DAC/Amp design has not allowed them to increase power all that much. Trade off use to be power for battery life but now we see with the A105 and ZX500 that isn't the case anymore. I would love to go back to owning a Sony DAP and so hoped the A105 was going to be that DAP but it just doesn't work for me at this price. I would be willing to pay a little more for a Sony DAP but not more than double the price

I for one would love to see what Sony could produce if they went with third party DAC and opamp's from other manufacturers. It might be necessary at some point if they hope to stay in the DAP market.

I agree with @nanaholic
Sony makes the best DAP usability . Yeah in the first iteration of the FW for the wm1A I had some crashes but today havent had any. The UI performance is for.me a big role (deal) so sluggish ui like the fiio x3 is a big turn off for me too. Yes Sony's a monster who can afford time and resources to.make sfferentnpritypes and testing like they sis with a zx2 chassis with different metals.

Sony DAP for.me tens tompeoduce the best organic and realistic sound.

 

[chungjun]

I agree with @nanaholic
Sony mahes tgebbwst DAP usability . Yeah in the first iteration of the FW for the wm1A I had some crashes but today havent had any. The UK performance is for.me a big role (deal) so sluggish ui like the fiio x3 is a big turn off for me too. Yes Sonya's a monster who can afford time and resources to.make sfferentnpritypes and testing like they sis with a zx2 chassis with different metals.

Sony DAP for.me tens tompeoduce the best organic and realistic sound.

Yeah, in this day and age, stable UI / system is equally important as the hardware and also it will be swell for us all to have a smart keyboard that is able to catch up with the speed of our thumb(?) typing...

 

[INGRAMLI]

Exactly you can't paint all DAP makers with the same brush just because one company is Japanese and most of the others are Chinese. Proprietary is also not always better (WMPort), sometimes getting parts from a manufacturer who specializes in making them is better than going it alone. Sony's proprietary DAC/Amp design has not allowed them to increase power all that much. Trade off use to be power for battery life but now we see with the A105 and ZX500 that isn't the case anymore. I would love to go back to owning a Sony DAP and so hoped the A105 was going to be that DAP but it just doesn't work for me at this price. I would be willing to pay a little more for a Sony DAP but not more than double the price

I for one would love to see what Sony could produce if they went with third party DAC and opamp's from other manufacturers. It might be necessary at some point if they hope to stay in the DAP market.

We are here to discuss about the new DAP of Sony, not the reputation between different companies. I just want to share some experience about a Chinese DAP, to be specific, HiFiMAN R2R2000, one of the high end DAP from a relatively well-known brand HiFiMAN.

That was around 6 months ago, I was using a WM1A and looking for a upgrade to pair with my Sony Just Ear MH-2. As a NOS (non-oversampling) DAC lover, R2R2000 quickly catch my attention as being one of the few high end DAP employing a pair of PCM1704 (which are discontinued R2R DACs), in a small package (smaller than WM1A, probably around the size of ZX300), great sound in a portable size, sounds impressive, I quickly went for an audition.

The result? I would not go into details in tern of SQ (it is not my cup of tea, although objectively in SQ is nearly on par to WM1A/WM1Z), however my biggest impression is the poor UI and user experience. Not only the UI looks amateur (i mean, it is ugly), it is very sluggish. R2R2000 took like 20 seconds to respond to a click in the navigation of the system menu, and more than 10 seconds to a command switching to next song or a pause. Keep in mind that it is just what i found in a 5 mins trial with it, probably I will find out more if I spend more time with it. I just couldn't believe a USD2,000 DAP could come with such a pathetic UI and poor user experience, it feels like a piece of junk, no pleasure whatsoever listening my favorite songs with it, and with no surprise I ended up with WM1Z.

Don't get me wrong, I am not writing to justify my purchase decision (although i do feel WM1Z a great purchase personally), but to point out the decision to purchase a chinese high end DAP. SQ aside, those products just give me feelings that they are not ready for the high end DAP market, but a prototype from a mad scientist. Those chinese makers, generally speaking, just don't have the mindset of a high end DAP manufacturer, which a high end DAP is about user experience, the user should be able to lay back, relax and focus on the music, not spending time to deal with the problem of the DAP, waiting for firmware fix, or even finding unofficial workaround to make it useable (somehow). IMHO too many people made their decisions to buy a chinese DAP just base on specs on paper, without understanding how the actual product function in hand, and will eventually learn a lesson from it (yes that include myself, fortunately I learned it from entry-level products).

Just my 2 cents, as always, YMMV.

Edited for typo

 

[twd2003]

Hey guys, this is kinda unrelated to this particular product but does anyone know a good e-trailer for Sony DAPs or headphones that ships internationally?

 

[fish1050]

I agree with @nanaholic
Sony makes the best DAP usability . Yeah in the first iteration of the FW for the wm1A I had some crashes but today havent had any. The UI performance is for.me a big role (deal) so sluggish ui like the fiio x3 is a big turn off for me too. Yes Sony's a monster who can afford time and resources to.make sfferentnpritypes and testing like they sis with a zx2 chassis with different metals.

Sony DAP for.me tens tompeoduce the best organic and realistic sound.

My DAP budget doesn't come close to the WM1A territory so I am looking at the A105 in comparison to the competition. I was very negative on Fiio DAP's for many years after their first gen X1 and X3 which I found horrible. Still not perfect my M7 for the $220.00 I paid is lights years better than Fiio's first DAP's. The sound quality is excellent for the price and the sound is very natural and yes even organic sounding as some reviews have stated. It supports every bluetooth codec on the market, the battery life approaches Sony DAP territory even better than the A105 with slightly more power. It is very stable and very responsive I only had one minor lockup on the original firmware but no issues since. The UI is pretty good, not Sony good but still ticks alot of boxes. Bang for the buck I am very happy, still hoping to get my hands on a Shanling M2X as I would prefer a Linux based DAP to Android. It isn't in Canada at the moment but I emailed the Canadian distributor so hopefully they will contact me with availability soon.

I am willing to bet I would favor the new Sony DAP's for UI no doubt in my mind. But the UI is only one factor, in most other areas the A105 the only Sony DAP I can even consider simply is coming up short. Power is still weak and has not improved in three A series generations now and they left out USB DAC functionality and bluetooth receiver mode which can be found on much cheaper DAP's including my M7. I have used these features and would miss them if I had to go without them. I would have loved to demo an A55 but Sony in their infinite wisdom never released it in North America. If they do change their minds and bring it here it would likely fit my needs better than the more expensive A105.

It would be great if Sony came out with an A65 with the same UI and sound quality as the A105 but leave out the wifi and streaming and give us back some of the lost battery life on the A105. Sony really does need a $300 DAP in their lineup like all the other DAP makers have.

 

[imparanoic]

My DAP budget doesn't come close to the WM1A territory so I am looking at the A105 in comparison to the competition. I was very negative on Fiio DAP's for many years after their first gen X1 and X3 which I found horrible. Still not perfect my M7 for the $220.00 I paid is lights years better than Fiio's first DAP's. The sound quality is excellent for the price and the sound is very natural and yes even organic sounding as some reviews have stated. It supports every bluetooth codec on the market, the battery life approaches Sony DAP territory even better than the A105 with slightly more power. It is very stable and very responsive I only had one minor lockup on the original firmware but no issues since. The UI is pretty good, not Sony good but still ticks alot of boxes. Bang for the buck I am very happy, still hoping to get my hands on a Shanling M2X as I would prefer a Linux based DAP to Android. It isn't in Canada at the moment but I emailed the Canadian distributor so hopefully they will contact me with availability soon.

I am willing to bet I would favor the new Sony DAP's for UI no doubt in my mind. But the UI is only one factor, in most other areas the A105 the only Sony DAP I can even consider simply is coming up short. Power is still weak and has not improved in three A series generations now and they left out USB DAC functionality and bluetooth receiver mode which can be found on much cheaper DAP's including my M7. I have used these features and would miss them if I had to go without them. I would have loved to demo an A55 but Sony in their infinite wisdom never released it in North America. If they do change their minds and bring it here it would likely fit my needs better than the more expensive A105.

It would be great if Sony came out with an A65 with the same UI and sound quality as the A105 but leave out the wifi and streaming and give us back some of the lost battery life on the A105. Sony really does need a $300 DAP in their lineup like all the other DAP makers have.

Maybe they will not discontinue the nw-a50 series, that will be the current USD 300 model

 

[fish1050]

Maybe they will not discontinue the nw-a50 series, that will be the current USD 300 model

The A55 is still a consideration for me for sure, I hope that is the case and it comes to Canada.