[phiemon]

Have you heard Fei Wan? Curious to how that compares to Raven.

+1 on this!

 

[btwine]

Have you heard Fei Wan? Curious to how that compares to Raven.

I owned Fei Wan until last week. Quick comparison: FW was more of an adrenalyzed listen with many component parts a touch better to my preferences. Its bass was terrific. Less sub and mid bass than Raven but more articulation and punch. Ravens BCD adds a load more warmth. FW has more forward and detailed mids, and its treble has greater resolution and is more extended. Technicals similar but FW stage bigger and more holographic.

FW was more versatile in what kind of music sounded great on it - for me, just about anything in my library, vs Raven where slower and quieter songs of most genres don’t work as well and are more overwhelmed by its bass. Vocals in particular sounded more compelling on FW than Raven. Harder rock, thumping pop and dance music, and more bombastic songs were better on Raven for me.

While all of this does add up to Fei Wan being a small but clear level up, I parted ways with it primarily because its upper end energy levels, while part of what made it such a thrilling listen, limited duration of listening sessions for me and I found I wasn’t reaching for it nearly as much as Raven and others.

 

[PassionForMusic]

I owned Fei Wan until last week. Quick comparison: FW’s bass was terrific. Less sub and mid bass than Raven but more articulation and punch. Ravens BCD adds a load more warmth. FW has more forward and detailed mids, and its treble has greater resolution and is more extended. Technicals similar but FW stage bigger and more holographic.

FW was more versatile in what kind of music sounded great on it - for me, just about anything in my library, vs Raven where slower and quieter songs of most genres don’t work as well and are more overwhelmed by its bass.

I parted ways with FW because its upper end energy levels, while part of what made it such a thrilling listen, limited duration of listening sessions for me and I found I wasn’t reaching for it nearly as much as Raven and others.

"I parted ways with FW because its uper end energy levels, while part of what made it such a thrilling listen, limited duration of listening sessions and I found I wasn't reaching for it nearly as much as Raven and others"-That sounds like my experience with NA Viking Ragnar. It is a very good and technical set. However, I ended up getting treble fatigue with it due to to much upper energy and was unable to listen to it for very long. As a result, I ended up reaching for other iems more often.

 

[MatW]

"I parted ways with FW because its uper end energy levels, while part of what made it such a thrilling listen, limited duration of listening sessions and I found I wasn't reaching for it nearly as much as Raven and others"-That sounds like my experience with NA Viking Ragnar. It is a very good and technical set. However, I ended up getting treble fatigue with it due to to much upper energy and was unable to listen to it for very long. As a result, I ended up reaching for other iems more often.

I feel the same about both. They are great IEMs but can be fatiguing after a while. Currently I do own the Ragnar as a specialist set. If I had a deeper wallet I would add the Fei Wan as well, but currently it's too expensive for me to own it in a specialist capacity.

 

[btwine]

If I had a deeper wallet I would add the Fei Wan as well, but currently it's too expensive for me to own it in a specialist capacity.

Same here. If FW were 1k less valuable I would have kept it. Just too much value to keep parked in the case as much as it was for me.

 

[thaslaya]

You guess wrongly.

Despite the crazy multi-kilobucks I've spent on various high-end IEMs, there is always a place for the sub-1k stuff. I keep my expectations in check and I'm never disappointed...

... because what's wrong with McNuggets? Well, when Macca's POS systems are working and they can sell them to you anyways...

I picked up the $40 CCA Trio a few weeks ago, and I'm really liking it as something to keep in my bag I take to work and just grab when I'm out for the day. Bottomless sub-bass with a surprisingly large stage when given a bit o' juice, and wonderful coherence from its 3xDDs. I loaned it to a colleague the other day when he needed something to use while we were between meetings at a coffee shop and he was blown away compared to his AirPods2 that he forgot to charge.



A really great budget-fi basshead's delight.

I have seen the Trio talked about a little in the Discovery thread. I'm definitely interested in trying it but too many switches is always intimidating to me. Too many options lol

 

[Rockwell75]

Anyone who tested the Elysian Pilgrim and is also familiar with the Diva think it's still worth purchasing Diva now? Was just about to pick it up the Diva and then read about the Pilgrim so don't now what to do now haha.

I think they're both quite different. If you're after more of a generalist tuning and don't care about DD bass then Diva is probably a better choice. I like the Pilgrim precisely because for me it's more of a top-end-clarity-&-treble-detail specialist with the bass firmly in the back seat. It's a masterclass of Lee's renowned tuning chops and and quite versatile that even though something of a specialist (YMMV) I suspect it will have a very wide appeal.

circumlocutory

I've always had a romantic fascination with words and I love discovering new ones and experiencing the joy in finding exactly the right word for a given purpose. All of this to say you more than any other person often pull words out of your quiver that I haven't seen before or which compel me to run for a dictionary, so cheers for that.

I have the impression that the upper-mids/(low-)treble area is the area that is most problematic to tune. It seems to be THE dealbreaker for most of us. I wonder why at least experienced manufacturers can't manage this. Or do they not want to understand it?

I would say the same for the mid-bass region, for very similar reasons. It feels safer to talk about this publicly right now than it was a couple years ago but there are decided regional tuning preferences out there, crudely often classified as "eastern" and "western", with one being more sub-bass focused with more emphasis on the upper mids and treble, and the other being known for more presence in the mid-bass and lower mid region. Hence shoutiness is as much of a deal breaker for some as muddiness is for others-- even though what might be shouty or muddy for one person, will not necessarily be so for another. All of this to say, as others have said, there is not and should not imho be a single standard tuning protocol that applies to all people at all times. Just like with food we should celebrate the bewildering diversity in flavors and textures as this is the best way to assure that, in a world where no two snowflakes-- or any two people's tastes- are completely alike that there will be the perfect IEM out there for everyone.

It’s also a very region-specific thing. Final and Noble’s biggest markets are in Asia, who tend to prefer lots of treble for their female vocals and acoustic guitars. Noble also have warmer alternatives like the Ronin and, according to most CJ NY reports, the Onyx.

+1.

I found the Onyx to be quite dark and muddy. Much preferred the Pilgrim, which sort of flies in the face of what one might expect my tastes to be. This brings up an additional thought which is that perhaps for every different "style" out there if it's really well done it should have a fairly wide appeal.

You're exactly as critical as I am myself

Loved this whole comment, but I wanted to say that I think most of us are this criticial-- it's just that some are more consistently expressive about it. I scoured the length and breadth of the TOTL IEM landscape for years and it wasn't until I found, not just the Trifecta, but the Trifecta + a very specific source in the WM1Z that I finally had something that ticked all my boxes and left nothing wanting. I get the appeal of negative and criticial perspectives, and I feel it's healthy that there are always a few characters around with this approach, but I'm glad not everyone takes it as imho this hobby is so fundamentally subjective in nature that an overemphasis of negative and criticial comments would probably do more harm than good as, at least with me, I find that reading something criticial can often turn. me right off even demoing something that I may very well love. It's all about balance I guess.

I think the offense is taken when those negative opinions are stated as objective facts (and even more so when those opinions are a minority view). I think it’s good to emphasize once again that in this hobby there are as many opinions as headfiers, and only very few facts, when it comes to the perception of sound quality.

Agreed. Personally I can't stand it when folks, typically those (but not all!) in the industry presume a mantle of expert authority and deign to tell the rest of us what to listen to, what to like, and what constitutes correctness. I have my own ears thank-you very much.

Yep, I feel the same way!

What do you think of Raven?

My most recent experience with Raven was odd. I'm not sure if it's been tweaked or not since SoCal but this time around I found the upper mids region too energetic-- not Odin levels, but tilted in that direction. I enjoyed the Novus much more and it was more what I remembered Raven from SoCal sounding like. Novus is my favorite EE product so far. YMMV.

 

[phiemon]

I think they're both quite different. If you're after more of a generalist tuning and don't care about DD bass then Diva is probably a better choice. I like the Pilgrim precisely because for me it's more of a top-end-clarity-&-treble-detail specialist with the bass firmly in the back seat. It's a masterclass of Lee's renowned tuning chops and and quite versatile that even though something of a specialist (YMMV) I suspect it will have a very wide appeal.



I've always had a romantic fascination with words and I love discovering new ones and experiencing the joy in finding exactly the right word for a given purpose. All of this to say you more than any other person often pull words out of your quiver that I haven't seen before or which compel me to run for a dictionary, so cheers for that.



I would say the same for the mid-bass region, for very similar reasons. It feels safer to talk about this publicly right now than it was a couple years ago but there are decided regional tuning preferences out there, crudely often classified as "eastern" and "western", with one being more sub-bass focused with more emphasis on the upper mids and treble, and the other being known for more presence in the mid-bass and lower mid region. Hence shoutiness is as much of a deal breaker for some as muddiness is for others-- even though what might be shouty or muddy for one person, will not necessarily be so for another. All of this to say, as others have said, there is not and should not imho be a single standard tuning protocol that applies to all people at all times. Just like with food we should celebrate the bewildering diversity in flavors and textures as this is the best way to assure that, in a world where no two snowflakes-- or any two people's tastes- are completely alike that there will be the perfect IEM out there for everyone.



+1.

I found the Onyx to be quite dark and muddy. Much preferred the Pilgrim, which sort of flies in the face of what one might expect my tastes to be. This brings up an additional thought which is that perhaps for every different "style" out there if it's really well done it should have a fairly wide appeal.



Loved this whole comment, but I wanted to say that I think most of us are this criticial-- it's just that some are more consistently expressive about it. I scoured the length and breadth of the TOTL IEM landscape for years and it wasn't until I found, not just the Trifecta, but the Trifecta + a very specific source in the WM1Z that I finally had something that ticked all my boxes and left nothing wanting. I get the appeal of negative and criticial perspectives, and I feel it's healthy that there are always a few characters around with this approach, but I'm glad not everyone takes it as imho this hobby is so fundamentally subjective in nature that an overemphasis of negative and criticial comments would probably do more harm than good as, at least with me, I find that reading something criticial can often turn. me right off even demoing something that I may very well love. It's all about balance I guess.



Agreed. Personally I can't stand it when folks, typically those (but not all!) in the industry presume a mantle of expert authority and deign to tell the rest of us what to listen to, what to like, and what constitutes correctness. I have my own ears thank-you very much.



My most recent experience with Raven was odd. I'm not sure if it's been tweaked or not since SoCal but this time around I found the upper mids region too energetic-- not Odin levels, but tilted in that direction. I enjoyed the Novus much more and it was more what I remembered Raven from SoCal sounding like. Novus is my favorite EE product so far. YMMV.

Great comments!

 

[RTodd]

I found the Onyx to be quite dark and muddy. Much preferred the Pilgrim, which sort of flies in the face of what one might expect my tastes to be. This brings up an additional thought which is that perhaps for every different "style" out there if it's really well done it should have a fairly wide appeal.

Pilgrim was very good, a prototype, supplied to MT without cable. Leo paired with something that is what we heard. He thinks the tuning is final expects only nozzle refinement, and choose a cable for it. It sounds like 2K plus, technically Annihilator is better to me though the Pilgrim is easier to listen to and does have a similar tuning, at the proposed price of 4-5 hundred it is a “no brainer” and a “why not”. Looking massively forward to hearing it again in its final iteration.

 

[thaslaya]

Pilgrim was very good, a prototype, supplied to MT without cable. Leo paired with something that is what we heard. He thinks the tuning is final expects only nozzle refinement, and choose a cable for it. It sounds like 2K plus, technically Annihilator is better to me though the Pilgrim is easier to listen to and does have a similar tuning, at the proposed price of 4-5 hundred it is a “no brainer” and a “why not”. Looking massively forward to hearing it again in its final iteration.

I will hopefully be able to attend SoCal this year and I will definitely be on the lookout for the Pilgrim. I will of course demo everything possible in the tiers I will probably never ascend to but the Pilgrim at $400-500 is something I may start saving for now just in case I love it.

 

[1oad3r]

Happy Saturday my friends! Re: Pilgrim, is there an ETA for availability - given the strength of praise here I will buy it blind…just, when?!

 

[PHLHarmonic]

Pilgrim is a terrible name but it's nice to hear it's supposedly really good for the price. It seems like the bar of diminishing returns is generally coming way down in the last year despite some absurd prices on the top end.

 

[stacey]

I don’t think the Pilgrim is a bad name at all. And I take that this is part of the relationship with EA now. I’m just happy to see some lower price stuff do and review well.

 

[Scubadevils]

Enjoying Saturday afternoon with Orivetti OH700VB, a $699 hybrid with 1x DD and 6x BA - a smooth and super engaging signature that while not the most resolving, more than make up for in sheer unadulterated listening pleasure, a highly musical experience with no offensive peaks. I love how the treble extends in a crisp and airy atmosphere, mids wonderful clarity and nice lush tonality, excellent bass execution with deep sub extension and ample mid bass heft.

Yet another set that performs way beyond its price tag. Full review in a couple of weeks but certainly a 5/5 set!

 

[KuroKitsu]

For the first time in my life, I understood what treble fatique means with the A8000. Really very unpleasant...

Oh well, the second time was with Viking Ragnar. Also very unpleasant...

Y'all have any more of tre- *DUCKS*

Having owned/demo both and finding no issues with either, I loved the A8K and despised the Ragnar. It's more than just "has lots of treble", which I'm perfectly sure you mean as well.

Odin made my eyeballs bleed.

Isn't that a good thing? You can't tempted by other aesthetic looking kilobucks if your eyeballs are covered in blood (I think)