[Alberto01]

  I'm not denying physical burn in completely, just that scientifically the amount of change in the driver should not make headphones sound that much better.. unless you have superhuman ears.
 
Again, I'm not knocking anyone for enjoying IEMs more the longer they listen, or if to your ears the sound actually gets better. That's a good thing and just as real as anything else! It's just that this is based on your brain rather than the IEMs themselves changing.
 
Not picking on anyone in particular here btw . This is a topic that always comes up. I'm the ****** who brought it up this time lol.
 
Back to discussing the BE's.

 
Maybe we are agreeing more than we have noticed.  How much of a change might be the real question here rather than whether a change has taken place or not.  Still, if someone briefly listens to a brand new pair of headphones and then leaves them in absent operation for many hours and comes back and listens to them briefly again and finds that the sound has changed significantly for the better or worse, how much of that could be attributed to brain adaptation or brain burn in.  Can that take place that fast?
 
Here is an interesting take on the subject:
 
http://lifehacker.com/5993461/do-i-really-need-to-break-in-my-headphones-for-the-best-sound

 

[Alberto01]

Had some typing errors in my last post.  Now, it is fixed.

 

[JosephKim]

Yes perhaps our views are closer than I thought. Again my argument is not that physical burn in does not exist at all, but that the majority of the perceived difference is due to change in perception and not change in the IEMs themselves.
 
Quote:

  I love measuring stuff.  But, if nothing can be measured in this instance, your observation make it obvious that there is a physical burn in or equivalent. 

 
However, this statement simply does not make sense. Why would you reach the conclusion that physical change in the driver accounts for all the change because you cannot measure anything? If anything it would be the other way around.. being able to measure the sound frequencies would be more of an argument for physical change. And actually there is science, both in human biology and audiology that would show that these negligible changes would not bring such massive changes on their own. Unless you have those super ears of course!
 
Our perception changes constantly! Just look around the world today.. just because you observe differences/changes in certain objects does not necessarily mean there has actually been a change in the objects. Sight for example. Something can look lighter, darker, based on contrast when there are actually no differences. The difference is in our perception.
 
What would happen if you listened to some really crappy IEMs for a LONG time without A/Bing with other IEMs? I think eventually your brain would become somewhat accustomed to the sound. And although you may not feel that it has turned into a completely different animal, I bet your perception of the sound would change.
 
Anyway I am in the wrong for bringing this up. Placebo effect is very real. If someone believes that sound is getting better, even if it is not due to actual change in the source, does that make it any less real? No, it is just as real! Sound is defined by how we perceive it.
 
The medical analogy--If a doctor gives someone a sugar pill and tells them it would cure a disease, and the patient's condition improves, does that lower the effectiveness of the sugar pill? No way! The results are very real.
 
I see the burn in argument the same way. Even if it is only psychological burn in, that does not make it any less real. Take the sugar pill because it works!
 
Sorry for even bringing this up . It is like saying do not take the sugar pill because it is not real. Who cares as long as you get results right? 

 

[Alberto01]

OK.
 
We also agree on the reality that brain adaptation is real and it is of a greater impact than physical burn in.  So, we agree more than we disagree.  I wished that brain adaptation would be even greater than it is.  That way, I would like all headphones better than I do.

 

[Alberto01]

  You can observe that the IEM sounds better to you. What accounts for that observation I believe can be measured.
 
Eh wisdom? I think you're getting a bit off subject with this one. Of course there are things we dont "measure". Were talking specifically about IEM drivers here. Possibly audiology? 

 
Below, I wrote what I meant to write about wisdom.  I had left the boldfaced statement out when I posted about that.
 
Not all things that are observed have been measured.  Not all things that are measured have been observed. But, all measurements and observations can be interpreted.  That requires wisdom.  Wisdom can neither be measured, nor can it be observed.  It has to be sensed.......Scientific approaches will always have a subjective component, and sometimes quite big.
 
Notice, that as much as I say that "not all things that are observed have been measured", I believe that there can be a way to measure all things that are observed through the five physical senses.  So, in the realm of the visible to the natural person, measurements and observations can catch up with one another.  In the realm of the invisible, there is a lot to be observed with senses that we have from the part of us that is invisible to the natural person.  In fact, as strange (or nut?) as this may sound and knowing that this is obviously not related to headphones stuff, someone becomes normal (the way we are supposed to be) when he/she can bring stuff from the invisible to the visible realm, or dimension if you wish.  For example, I can observe that there is "grace" toward you that many people don't have or don't get, JosephKim.  I can see that "grace" toward you clearly.  I have no idea if we can find a way to measure it.  HA, HA.
 
We know more than we can observe, and we can observe more than we can measure.  Regarding headphones, I wonder (sincerely, not cynically) if we are assuming that all the measurements that have been determined as relevant to address and predict sound quality changes, have caught up with all the sound traits and changes that can be perceived through our hearing, and yet there is more to be measured that we don't know about.
 
Congratulations!  You have the treasure of "grace."

 

[Longtime Lurker]

  Hail to the Collective Wisdom of the Forum!  Fifty hours and they are improving.  Also observed that with proper insertion I can no longer hear my ex wife's demands for more money!

every time i read something like this on the internet, it aggravates me. i can't believe that men my age (early 20s) are stupid enough to (edit) be open to marriage (/edit) when there are tons of older dudes who post about having to support some bum a-- grown woman looking for a handout/allowance. it makes me wonder what has to happen before men start rejecting marriage altogether.
 
and lol at how this topic devolved into burn-in discussion. i had the mk2's during the summer and got rid of them after a month. i've had the BEs for around 4 months, i think. the mk2's didn't really have any bass impact unless it was an extremely bass-heavy track. the BEs have just enough bass, but the mids are receded a little bit. it would be nice to have another gr07 that combines both of their strengths.
 
the only "burn-in" i've noticed was that the hissing sound from plugging the MK2s to my laptop began to die-down a lot. besides that, i have nothing. i think people are imagining things and are simply getting used to the sound signature.
 
/rant

 

[Jodiuh]

I'm looking for an alternative headphone (< $500) that can sound like my gr07be (I love its low bass and treble extension). I listen to mostly symphonic/power metal (orchestra + opera + metal). I've been lurking around the headphone forum, but none of the hp seems to go well with all orchestra + opera + metal, have enough bass (I'm not a basshead) and good instrument separation. Currently I'm looking at Beyer DT880, Senn HD600, Grados 325i. Can you guys recommend me what you own? Thanks.

I've owned the 880's, the 325i's,and some HD580's. Once I got the 880's, I stopped listening to the HD580's...boring. Once I got the 325i's, I sent back the 880's. Get the upgraded pads for more comfort. Sadly, I broke my 325i's.

 

[abfackeln]

Never owned the GR07BE before, but I remember really liking the sound of the Monoprice 8320s, I liked the sparkling clarity at the top end. Does the GR07BE sound anything like the MP8320s?

 

[esteebin]

  Never owned the GR07BE before, but I remember really liking the sound of the Monoprice 8320s, I liked the sparkling clarity at the top end. Does the GR07BE sound anything like the MP8320s?

I think you will enjoy the the GR07BE coming from the Monoprice. I have the 9927 (black one) which I like (sound) but its just too uncomfortable in my ear (double flange tips improves on that). Plus I love the cable on the GR07BE: the right thickness, sturdy, and nice to the touch.
 
First thing is to get the right fit using the various tips and adjusting the nozzle angle (as already mentioned in previous posts) before passing judgement on the sound.

 

[Wildings]

Wow There It Is,! Idont know how many hours in, several tip changes, etc....but they sound great now! To any others on the path who may have initial doubts ....trust the Forum, and persevere ! And no, it was not just tip changes and micro placement adjustments.

 

[Nusho]

Can you guys help me out?
I have driver flex with my BEs in the right bud and I don't know whether I should send it back or fix it personally. As for the second option, I mean like different ways to put it in, etc. I already experimented with all the tips that fit me and all have some driver flex in right bud (They only sent me half the tips, and im waiting for them to come -- its been 2 weeks already. Also, I ordered the BE 2 months ago and the first pair that came had a broken cable (split in middle) and it took them a month to send me a new one -- this is why im apprehensive to sending them back. I bought them from Amazon/ gateshop -- yea should've gotten them from lendmeurears)
But yea will it hurt the dynamic driver in the right bud? Fortunately, It hasn't impacted the sound quality and both drivers sound good, but I don't want them to break on me in the future -- they aren't particularly expensive, but I want them to last me some time.
Thanks guys!
Nusho

 

[waynes world]

What are you experiencing? I've had some sort of weirdness happening with all of my vsonic iem's in the right driver only. The sound just kind of disappears at times, and it seems to depend on how I am flexing my jaw, or on the alignment of the planets, or whatever. I find that when I adjust the angle of the driver it helps (thank goodness you can do that with vsonics), and then I might not notice the problem for days. I would tend to think that it's a problem with my ear (like wax, or the configuration of my right ear or something), but this only seems to happen with my vsonic iems. Thoughts?

 

[Nusho]

IF you have any questions feel free to ask

 

[Nusho]

  What are you experiencing? I've had some sort of weirdness happening with all of my vsonic iem's in the right driver only. The sound just kind of disappears at times, and it seems to depend on how I am flexing my jaw, or on the alignment of the planets, or whatever. I find that when I adjust the angle of the driver it helps (thank goodness you can do that with vsonics), and then I might not notice the problem for days. I would tend to think that it's a problem with my ear (like wax, or the configuration of my right ear or something), but this only seems to happen with my vsonic iems. Thoughts?

Ahh ...I am not sure if this is driver flex, but driver flex can create all the problems you talk about. Fortunately, Im not losing sound. But every time I put the earbud in and out, I get a sort of crackling sound -- I think it has something to do with the air moving the driver (they are dynamics, so this would make sense). Im not sure about the physics behind it, but im damn sure its driver flex. As for your case, its interesting because you are actually LOSING sound. This could quite possible be driver flex. Just a question, before you lose this sound and after you put them in your ears (normally), do you hear a sort of crackling, popping sound? If so, this could be driver flex, and you seem to have a severe situation of it. Furthermore, the fact that changing the nozzle helps you stop this problem supports the thesis that it may be driver flex. If you let some air escape the seal, you can stop it from happening, which could very well be happening as u change the nozzle. It all makes sense, but that's why im starting up this thread. To see if we can do something about it

 

[Nusho]

  What are you experiencing? I've had some sort of weirdness happening with all of my vsonic iem's in the right driver only. The sound just kind of disappears at times, and it seems to depend on how I am flexing my jaw, or on the alignment of the planets, or whatever. I find that when I adjust the angle of the driver it helps (thank goodness you can do that with vsonics), and then I might not notice the problem for days. I would tend to think that it's a problem with my ear (like wax, or the configuration of my right ear or something), but this only seems to happen with my vsonic iems. Thoughts?

Also, do your other iems have balanced armature drivers?